Substrate in hospital tank

[Bob I]

I am sick and tired of hearing about ick. There is only one cure, and that is TIME. If your system is old enough you will not get ick period. I have not seen ick in years, why,? because my system is old enough. I have no QT tank or hospital tank. I have purchased about four new fish recently from some of the worst disease purveyors here in Calgary. They went directly into my tanks. No ick, no disease period. Why because my systems are old enough. Believe it folks, it works.

[martym]

Old tanks just magically appear do they.

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by martym

Old tanks just magically appear do they.

Yes of course they magically appear IN TIME. TIME is your friend. I my experience (and that includes a lot of diseased, dead fish), it does seem like magic. Nowadays I would not dream of putting a fish into a tank that is not at least six months old, But I am offering this advice from EXPERIENCE. I do not care one bit if you listen to me or to the skimming, water changing folks. The only thing that matters is happy disease free animals.

[martym]

My tank is 8 months old. 75g with only 3 fish

[aussiefishy]

if you intended to use medicine in hospital tank, substrate is not a good idea because the argonite tend s to absorbs the medicine, especially copper.

[Buccaneer]

A freshwater bath is not going to directly kill a fish but give instant relief from the parasites already clinging to the fish which in fact are stressing out the fish... if a fish dies from a freshwater bath IMO then it was doomed to begin with ... as to hyposalinity it is probably the least stressfull method of ensuring the ick is eliminated ( Copper is rumoured to damage the intestinal tract of fish ) A refractometer is I think essential to this hobby or at the very least regularly check your swingarm hydrometer against a Refractometer ... maybe we should at our reef meetings ensure that there is at least one calibrated Refractometer for those that want to check their swingarm hydrometers.


I have a foxface that every now and then gets cloudy eyes and the occasional spot ... no other fish in the tank gets spots or cloudy eyes ... I feed garlic with their nori every other day and recently started sprinkling their mysis shrimp with Beta Glucan to improve their immune system ...

Although a stable old tank would be ideal it is not always feasable and alternate methods need to be explored.

Cheers

[Beverly]

Originally Posted by Bob_I

I am sick and tired of hearing about ick. There is only one cure, and that is TIME. If your system is old enough you will not get ick period.

Bob, I respectfully have to disagree on your statement. Have done some serious reading over the past few months on the subjects of ick and velvet, and what you say is not correct.

Have kept fw and marine tanks since 1998. Have QT-ed very few fish and have had no ick or other parasitic or bacterial problems in that time, until recently. Feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the nitrogen cycle and am getting better at understanding marine tank chemistry, but am still an utter chemistry dummy in the grand scheme of those who are chemists.

Since 1998, have kept everything from a 110g indoor goldfish pond, a 180g oscar tank, a 2.5 gal sexy shrimp pico reef, a 75g mixed soft/sps/lps reef (our first reef) that was eventually upgraded to a 180g, a 33g reef, and pretty much everything in between. Have moved around a lot over the past 10 years, so have never kept any tanks for over 2 years.

Back in Mar/03, we set up our first major tank since our latest move, our 42g hex. Put in 3" of aragonite substrate, NSW, ~40 lbs of cured LR. Waited a week or two for the thing to go through a mini-cycle, then put in a few fish and corals. Wrote about about my quick set up on this board and got ROYALLY blasted by several people for my total stupidity and ignorance

In the 42g, did not experience any algae blooms, ammonia spikes, dead corals or sick fish, though it would certainly have been prudent to quarantine the fish before introducing them to the tank.

Now, my 72g has been a different story. 3" aragonite sandbed, ~80 lbs LR, 3 months of curing and cycling before adding fish or corals. Once the tank was cycled, put in a posse of snails and began feeding the tank in preparation for the eventual addition of fish. At 3 months, put in some corals and fish. All the fish died within a month of velvet. Shoulda QT-ed them, which would have made treating them for velvet possible.

Waited 6-8 weeks before adding more fish to the tank, to make sure all velvet was gone. Added more fish without QT-ing. One of them had one itty bitty ick spot on it that I did not see until it was in the tank, and the tank got ick. Am still battling ick in the 72g and my H-tank is taking forever to cycle

Anyway, if a tank has not had fish in it before and no parasites have been inadvertently brought in on corals or mobile inverts, then ick, velvet or similar parasites will not become a problem. Ick and velvet have specific life cycles. When they hatch from the cyst phase of their life cycle and there are no fish to attach to, they die. Plain and simple. Young tank or old one.

If a fish becomes stressed for some reason, it will not get ick unless ick has been introduced to the tank. Stress is not a trigger for parasitic invasions unless the parasite has been introduced to the tank. That's why QT-ing new fish is so important. If new fish have parasites, the parasites won't be spread to the rest of the fish in the display tank, but can be treated in the Qtank.

Sorry for the long post. I'll get off my soapbox now

[martym]

Well said Beverly. There is anouther comment I would like to add but won't
Thanks for all the info and ideas everyone.

[Bob I]

I realise the statement "sick and tired" is too strong for most people's sensibilities. It found its way into the post after testing a certain amount of wine to see if it was aged enough. The well aged tank, and the fact I never introduce store water into my syastems have worked well for me. I would also urge people who have disease problems to read this.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.htm

In particular Myth #15. The whole series is well worth reading.

[Megalodon]

I'm a little reckless and rely on my fish winning the ick immunity challenge. Good water quality and a great diet tend to help out with this. If my tank ever had an outbreak I would do the six-week fishless tank thing while medicating the fish separately. I haven't had to do that yet but we'll see.