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Old 10-05-2015, 02:44 PM
IanWR IanWR is offline
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Default The dearth of spirited discussion

Hi all,

It seems like reef forums have been getting very quiet over the past 2 years or so. Not just canreef, but even huge forums like RC. When I first started reading forums there were often lively discussions on any number of topics. It seems like outside of buy and sell most threads are "ID this critter/algae/coral" or newbie questions that have been asked a thousand times.

Where are the raging debates? The new technique? Some game changing gear?

I wonder if the hobby has developed to the point that many previous open questions have been closed, rendering debate moot. For example:

- Plenum/DSB/miracle mud systems are out, and have lost vocal proponents

- LED lights are a proven viable lighting system, leaving the debate of MH vs T5 vs LED to high end sps systems and which light (or combination of lights) bring out the best colour (with enough examples of great looking successful tanks using any combination to prove that any could work).

- siphon drain systems (Herbie or BA) are common. The most spirited debate is whether one should keep the open channel in a Herbie completely dry or run a slight trickle through it.

I'm sure we can think of any number of things that used to inspire heated words that now barely rate a comment.

Is this the new normal? Is there something on the horizon to be the next hotly contested thing? Or am I out to lunch on this whole thing, and things are as lively as they've ever been and it's me that has changed? 😄
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:00 PM
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When people are entrenched with their opinions and beliefs, what's the point of arguing? I still see people saying and doing stupid things (IMO) and then wonder why they lose fish, or their corals don't grow. I guess Einstein's old definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results) will always live on...
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:09 PM
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No, I think you're pretty close. Also, with the increase in social media, lots of people tend to gather in local/regional pages and discuss stuff. Our local Victoria page is still fairly active, with all the newbie questions and concerns.

I also see a shift in hobbyist mentality. Most seem like they're too busy to participate, and simply use online resources as a place to buy or sell items. As you mentioned, most things ever wondered about are already talked to death, and can just be referenced. I don't need to ask anything, I can use Google and find someone that already asked it.

More and more I see a "what's in it for me" thought process. Where I have annually had reef meets/swaps at my place, less and less people came because there was nothing for them in the way of adding to their collection, or profits to be made. The idea of just gathering and chatting in person with like minded people seems to be lost. This year was the last year I'll be hosting this..

I know for me, as a long time hobbyist, the hobby no longer appeals to me the way it did 10 years ago. To be honest, I can't even say I like the hobby, or at least the people in it these days.

I've dropped from all but one Facebook group (only because I own the one group) and even my participation here has mostly stopped. I suspect that after the xmas holidays, I probably won't even come here anymore.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef Pilot View Post
When people are entrenched with their opinions and beliefs, what's the point of arguing? I still see people saying and doing stupid things (IMO) and then wonder why they lose fish, or their corals don't grow. I guess Einstein's old definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results) will always live on...
Ya, that's another one. And as the misinformation is passed, it gathers steam. I see often where someone will ask a question. I answer (with the tried and true right answer), but 10 people with less than 6 months give some other (stoopid) answer, and majority wins. So I give up. Figure it out yourself, like I did 20 years ago. Ya, it's going to cost you money and/or livestock losses, but hey, the Internet said that was right, so have at 'er!!
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:16 PM
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Well, with Canreef now, seems that vendors rule, and hobbyists are 2nd class... That why there are more and more moving to other facebook groups. Again, JMHO.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:24 PM
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Well, with Canreef now, seems that vendors rule, and hobbyists are 2nd class... That why there are more and more moving to other facebook groups. Again, JMHO.
No, the status quo has never changed in all the years in operation.. And as stated in the OP, all boards are suffering the times. There's just a couple people here that think they should have greater privilege. This board, as is every board, is a business. It's customers are the ones that finance the operation. The members are guests, that while ultimately drive the business model, still guests and need to abide by the rules or find somewhere more suitable to their preferences. Yes, some FB groups provide that, while some have just as many rules/issues as boards. Just more variety. Will the forum model simply die out one day? Probably, yes. That's just times a changin, progress progressing.

However, that is NOT the topic of this thread, so let's not make it about that, k?
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:34 PM
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I suspect that after the xmas holidays, I probably won't even come here anymore.

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Old 10-05-2015, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Is this the new normal? Is there something on the horizon to be the next hotly contested thing? Or am I out to lunch on this whole thing, and things are as lively as they've ever been and it's me that has changed? ��
I will restrain my post to the effect on Canreef, as I have too little experience with other forums to form an opinion on forums in general.

Canreef used to be a community, and something pretty special (personally) as it was the major motivation for me in the hobby. In my opinion the lack of discussion isn't because the issues have been beat to death, rather the members have left (for a myriad of reasons, most of which have been listed).

Simply put I didn't come back for the discussion I came back for the community. When Canreef lost Doug it was very evident, when Canreef lost Denny it was even more so. Checking in now-a-days all I see is discussion between mods, which is disheartening as this forum used to captivate me entirely. Now I'm just back for the occasional sale thread and to reminisce about the glory days.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:55 PM
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*LED vs MH vs T5*

I will start off by saying I have not used MH's over a reef tank, only a reptile tank

My progression of lighting has been PC's, T5's, LED's and the LED/T5 combo. I have never skimped and always bought/built the best version of each genre. The more recent debate in my mind is do LED's give the necessary spread/blend of light required for a thriving reef? They have the PAR/PUR power no doubt, but is it delivered in a fashion to truly compete with a good MH/Ballast/reflector combination?

I can't really say either way since I've never had the MH setup. But I have had a nice overdriven T5 system! I started my new tank with 3 x Mitras 6100's and eventually decided to add 4 x 48" T5's to help with shaded areas and maybe give the corals a little more spectrum to work with for colour. I like the current blend I have now but after seeing what one_divided could do in around a year in his current reef tank with MH lighting it really does make me think about adding a little MH supplementation to my system. I'd have a LED/T5/MH combination for lighting Best of all worlds.

Discuss!
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythanith View Post
*LED vs MH vs T5*

I will start off by saying I have not used MH's over a reef tank, only a reptile tank

My progression of lighting has been PC's, T5's, LED's and the LED/T5 combo. I have never skimped and always bought/built the best version of each genre. The more recent debate in my mind is do LED's give the necessary spread/blend of light required for a thriving reef? They have the PAR/PUR power no doubt, but is it delivered in a fashion to truly compete with a good MH/Ballast/reflector combination?

I can't really say either way since I've never had the MH setup. But I have had a nice overdriven T5 system! I started my new tank with 3 x Mitras 6100's and eventually decided to add 4 x 48" T5's to help with shaded areas and maybe give the corals a little more spectrum to work with for colour. I like the current blend I have now but after seeing what one_divided could do in around a year in his current reef tank with MH lighting it really does make me think about adding a little MH supplementation to my system. I'd have a LED/T5/MH combination for lighting Best of all worlds.

Discuss!
Really? this discussion is so dead
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