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#41
11-28-2014, 11:19 PM
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Poor torch has all but been ignored today..lol
OK. My 2 cents on water changes...Mmm, looking at how long this is, maybe I will say, "here is my 5 bucks worth!"  I did a lot of research on water changes. Randys info was the leading reason I chose to do daily water. Now bear in mind that even as a noob, I know there is very little that is an absolute in reefkeeping, as this thread has shown. There is science beind everything, but that science is limited and leaves alot of question of why, what, how etc. I have a ton of respect for the guys that have been doing this for so long. How they managed to keep a stable tank without half the gizmos, juices, elixirs, etc, I do not know. They are literally pioneers, and that is cool to me. Even though I may do daily water changes at 1.75 gals a day, it does not mean that it is an absolute. I may find I want to do water changes twice a week instead, maybe stick to daily and double the amount. Who knows..... I am not going to determine that, my tank will. The inhabitants may say, "hey, knock it off buddy!" or "more changes". That to me is husbandry. It is also how looking after a reef is a lot easier that it was 5, 10 , 20 years ago. I watch and learn, If i do not know why or what, I go do research and if that does not work, I ask you guys and try to form an opinion of what is logical or illogical, right or wrong etc. I do daily water changes because............... 1: Randy Holmes says it is alright and he seems to be a pretty smart guy. 2: I paid alot of money for my apex. I now have 20 outlets. For as much as I paid for it, I hate seeing them unused. Fill'em up is what I say. lol 3: The Apex makes my life easy. I have the ability to automate everything. thereby, letting me watch the tank more. Once you learn the methodology of the skimmer. chemicals, hoses, plumbing, glues, food. sumps, refugiums etc etc, what else is there , but to watch your tank and learn what makes them tick, so you take care of the living things you have paid to have snatched from the ocean, their home! 4: My best analogy is......Look at it as if you were to take a glass and fill it up with apple juice and grape juice, doing a 50/50 split, and then decide to add water to it because it tasted too strong. Of course the glass is full, so you need to empty it. Let's say you have a choice to do it all at once or you can do it over a week. To me, doing it over time, gives the ability to taste it(look at your tank) each day and see what is going on. It would not change the flavor drastically, if changed day by day. If you just take 25% out and dump 25% back in, you change the taste drastically, instantly; don't you? Now I dose my tank etc etc to keep the parameters consistent (Hold the flavor more consistent.) I also believe that the tank grows microorganisms and stuff that I have no idea about, because I add stuff to it, plus I believe it occurs naturally as well. These things do not just all appear, they take time to grow, dose, add etc. Now you take away 25 percent of the juice, and you take 25% of those good things; do you not? As opposed to changeing out a smaller amount, because I believe that the orginisms, chemicals etc will restock to a consistent level easier and way quicker than trying to get back from a 25% change I also believe this goes for my alk, calcium, mag. The new saltwater will replenish some of it, but I highly doubt it will replenish all of what was taken. Does this not make more work for me, since I will have to figure out how much to add to get to the parameters to what they were originally, just so my dosing will hold them steady? It seems to me that if I do daily changes, I hold everything more consistent. From what I have read, consistency is really important for a tanks inhabitants. 5: Because I like to think I can 6: Because I like to figure out how to do it and the challenges it posed to get the same amount out as in I think my logic seems ok, maybe not..Time will tell. Last edited by reefwithareefer; 11-28-2014 at 11:32 PM. 
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#42
11-28-2014, 11:38 PM
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Shoot...To who ever thought it was a good idea to stop feeding the mixture to the corals...I think you are right. It makes sense that it would be adding many nutrients. I was told that sun corals had to be feed once a day, so I figured it would not hurt to feed many things in one shot by making the elixir.
Thanks
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#43
11-29-2014, 12:23 AM
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and to those questioning my regime and how much I change..
You can read 100 threads of how much water should be changed and how often, but does it not just come down to each persons tank? Does it not matter how much you feed or what type; does it not matter what type of salt and what salinity levels are kept? What about how many inhabitants and types? What about if you only keep LPs, or LPS and SPS etc? Do you have a refugium? What about a skimmer or algae scrubber? I could go on and on...... In my opinion, there are guidelines and that is all there is. The rest is up to the individual to determine is it not? example of differences of opinion http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f9...ek-133637.html
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#44
11-29-2014, 12:40 AM
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Mason James
Quote: "The ats can be really tricky to get to take. Especially a reverse. I've ran an ats but for the opposite reasons I assume you are wanting to. But maybe i should ask why you are wanting to run one? Like any form of life, algae needs To feed. You need to create that envioroment where it can thrive. Do you really want to be promoting an environment where it can thrive? Or would you rather promote an environment where it's not so ideal for it? non the less there can be certain benefits from doing so (also negatives) if you choose but just keep in mind that they can be tricky to get going and maintain. So your attempts may or may not have been limited by available nutrients. The algae on the glass can find a meal so there is food to be had. I understand you seem to be only limited to the algae on the glass. Which you very well may be, and being the tank is receiving more sunlight recently it could very well be the cause for an increase in growth. But as I said before, the only way the algae that is growing on your glass can get an availabe meal is through the water column. So your water has algae fertilizer floating around in it. Is this a nutrient problem? I don't know. Is the algae doing you a favor and consuming 100% of the extra nutrients that are availabe? or is there a percent of the extra not being consumed and is getting sinked someplace else? When you clean your glass of the algae is 100% of that algae and the nutrients they consumed being removed and filtered out? The algae problem really could be a s simple as your just fertilizing the tank with too much of that fancy "food". Ditch all the extra for while and see if that helps. I'm only trying to stress that the nutrients are there. Work to fix it before those nutrients start to be stored elsewhere else." The reasons I am wanting to experiment with an algae scrubber are..... 1: No more carbon. I think it is better not to run carbon and it costs money. 2: My understanding is that it takes nutients to grow algae. Does that not mean the the scubber will take nutrients out of the water? Is it not better to have the algae grow on a piece of plastic, in my refugium, in the basement? There is little light down there so I do not see it spreading from the box it is in. The light to grow it has to be at a low kelvin and intense from what I have read. If that is true, I believe it cannot live to far from the actual scrubber. Yes, there could be minute pieces that float out, but will it not die off and get skimmed if it does not have the required parameters? I do wonder if it will propogate in the DT as it is a different type of algae that grows on the plastic as to the one that grows on my glass. Or, at least my research says that. 3: I think a scrubber is more natural filtration. I agree that it may or may not be a nutrient issue, as to why I am having trouble getting it going. Something I will have to determine and fudge with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_scrubber
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#45
11-29-2014, 01:09 AM
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Sorry guys, last post....
Lol... I did more research and this is what it is, but my tank is 8 months old. That is not new is it? It would have cylced a long time ago would it not have? Especially since all my rock and sand were live when building... http://www.reefcleaners.org/nuisance-algae-id-guide Called Diatoms, first pic in article They describe it to a tee...but....
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#47
11-29-2014, 03:42 AM
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OK, here's my 2 cents worth:
To my way of thinking exchanging water every day means that a percentage of the new water put in yesterday ends up being removed the next day. I would think that to be wasteful. AquaAddict
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#48
11-29-2014, 02:02 PM
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Newbie 2
I am wondering the same thing. I have always used a filter cloth, but changed over to a different one a month ago. I do not know for certain if it has silicates, oils etc in it. But out they come. Aqua Addict In theory I would agree, but the research that Randy Holmes and others have done, say that this in ot so, or it is so minor that not worth worrying about. In reality, Reefing is wasteful. I use rodi water for changes and topoffs. I can not remember the ratio, but I think I "throw away" 3 gals of waste water for every rodi water I get to keep. Never mind using 2 gals of water a day. Part of my reason to do daily changes, was to see if it will help reuce water changes or the amout used/wasted..Time will tell.
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#49
11-29-2014, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Before you try and understand ats, refugiums, macros etc. I woudl first try and broader your understanding of the nature of algae itself and the enviormnet it needs and promotes. I am sure you may learn a few things about it that may help you understand a bit better if deliberately including it your system fits the bill for you or not. I have ran an ats. And it worked for the purposes I intended it to. But I used it slightly differnt then most i would imagine. I learned a few things out about what makes alage tick, and I took advantage of some of its other qualities and used it as a means to raise my systems trophic indices to that of eutrophic. I wanted to raise nutrient levels and keep them within the system. So an ats (algae) fit the bill for my needs. You cannot have one without the other. Algae comes with the territory or it doesn't. Wether it's deliberate or not. If you wish to promote a higher nutrient system, which you may want to depending on what your trying to achieve with your system then algae can be a wonderful tool to use. If you wish to promote pod life and or all types of critters for certain fish/invert species etc, keeping higher nutriant demanding corals, etc. These are great reasons to include algae in some form to your system and it can be very beneficial to do so. But as algae will also seek to promote a thriving enviormnet for its own self preservation and success, you have to be careful to keep the scale in balance. If you can maintain a healty and thriving mesotrophic enviromnet, without pushing the scale to far into the eutrophic zones then you have found a good balance for your needs. And many appear to and/or are able to maintain this balance. Unfortunately many people inevitably end up in the eutrophic zones unintentionally. When you get to the higher scales in this zone you can start to boarder on the hypereutrophic zone which will more then likely result in a crash or a system **** down due to not being able to control alage. And it's surprizing common. And our friend algae is more then happy to help us along in this journey as its only seeking to promote itself by self promoting an envirmonet for itself. Simply put, if your going to have alage deliberately or not, you need to or will have had to create the enviromnet it needs, and your waters will need to be rich with nutrients. If you want to maintain low nutrients in a true sense, algae doesn't fit. You can't have low nutrients and have algae. At least in nuisance form or as a deliberate tool. If you wish to maintain a oligotrophic system, that being one of truly low nutrients, you cannot have and will not have algae deliberately, or as a nusiance. It would not work. Opting to maintain a system which maintains this trophic level can have many benefits, but it also comes with its own potential downsides based again upon the environment you are trying to create. Many species of fish, inverts etc. Would not be possible in such a system as the system would not be able to meet the needs of these species. Some species of coral which require a greater level of nutriants also would not do well in this type of system. In regards to your statement/question, "my understanding is that it takes nutrients to grow algae. Does that not mean the scrubber will take nutrients out of the water" Yes, absolulty at the most basic level of algae being a tool for export. This works very well to a certain degree. What I don't understand is the logic. However it is a very common point of view. We don't want algae. So we feed alage with nutrients so that we can use it to remove nutrients. Why not not feed the algae and forget having to remove the food you fed it? I don't understand the point of giving algae the fuel it needs to thrive, just so we can use it as a form of nutrient export. Seems pretty roundabout to me for those wanting to keep an algae free enviromnet.
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#50
11-30-2014, 06:29 AM
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Hmmm - I may have had one too many tequila shots cause this is all clear as mud in my brain!!
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