PENDING SPS shipment for all you hard core collectors..

[muck]

Im a bit slow I guess. Marie has already provided you with the link.

[don.ald]

reefermadness, have you posed this/your question(s) to all canadian LFS's that sell corals; thus leveling the playing field? i am sure you have! (perhaps you could start a new thread and publish your results?) just wondering if they welcomed your, ever so friendly, approach to information seeking?

Originally Posted by reefermadness

You have cleared up absolutely nothing. All you have done is dance around and change the subject. All I have asked is few simple and honest questions.

When I say I have no interest in the subject I'm referring to the fact that I have no financial or personal stake (im a simple aquarist). You sir have a financial stake and most of the people eating pop corn or sticking up for you have a personal stake because they like to buy these corals and don't care how you acquire them.

My only interest in the subject is perhaps moral or truth seeking. In all honesty I don't even think the law concerning CITES re-exportation that denies ORA/Tyree (or anyone else) the ability to ship coral fragments into Canada is a even a good one. I believe it should be legal and possilbe....but the fact remains ORA does not ship coral fragments to Canada for these reasons.

My biggest moral dilemma comes from the fact that you are not being truthful. Also I believe all stores should be on a level playing field. I don't find it fair that one store could quite possibly be breaking the law to be financially rewarded while others stores choose to follow the rules at a disadvantage.

The fact that you have not answered a few simple question speaks volumes to the fact that you are hiding something.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

My biggest moral dilemma comes from the fact that you are not being truthful.

Paul has truthfully declared he's not telling you. So the decision for you is simple. Don't buy these corals if they're going to cause you moral issues.

OC has been accused, reported, visited by the authorities, and checks out as doing nothing wrong. At this point, decide to purchase, or not, based on the info you have.

[ElGuappo]

Originally Posted by OceanicCorals-Paul-

I take random corals and put names to them, especially one's that people recognize, so that I can charge more money for them. So far it's working.

Thanks but I somehow I don't think you'll be wanting to buy my corals. Too bad.

Paul

well i have been following the last few threads out of curiosity more than anything and of all the posts this one caught my eye more than any other... from a consumers point of view...

this seems like a pretty shady buisiness tactic... ya its great if you find someone willing to pay this mark up on a coral.... so you are taking corals that "LOOK" like the high end, high demand corals and give them their name and up the price regardless of what your actual cost is on these pieces !?!?

in all honesty i was considering an order until i read this post....
good luck with the gouging........
when one of my favy lfs's get a deal on coral so do i!!!!!!!!!!

[reefermadness]

Thanks Marie for that thread.

However the fact remains that Oceanic (Paul) refuses to answer my simple questions.

1)Are these corals coming from the ORA/Tyree direct or otherwise? In other words are they coming from the USA.



The only reason I can think of that would cause Oceanic to deny that these are ORA/Tyree corals is to not implicate themselves. Lets not be naive people....Im just being brutely honest here because it doesnt make sense to me.

2) IF yes these coral coming from ORA/Tyree are they being brought in through legal channels

If Oceanic chooses to they can answer these 2 simple questions and the whole issue will be cleared up. The fact that they have not done so is what gets me??

Like I said I dont believe the way CITES is setup is correct in this instance but I do think all stores should play by the same rules. I would love to walk into many stores (even local stores to me) and be able to by Tyree or ORA corals but the fact remains I can't.

Sorry but most of you with knowledge on the subject may not like what Im saying but closing your eyes does not make the truth go away.

[marie]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

.......

Sorry but most of you with knowledge on the subject may not like what Im saying but closing your eyes does not make the truth go away.

It's not that we don't like what your saying....we just find it amusing because this very subject has been going on ad nauseum for years

Originally Posted by reefermadness

......

If Oceanic chooses to they can answer these 2 simple questions and the whole issue will be cleared up. The fact that they have not done so is what gets me??

.
.

Oceanic chooses not to answer those 2 questions.......they have been checked out and no one was hauled off to jail. I think you might have to not let it "get you"

[marie]

Originally Posted by ElGuappo

well i have been following the last few threads out of curiosity more than anything and of all the posts this one caught my eye more than any other... from a consumers point of view...

this seems like a pretty shady buisiness tactic... ya its great if you find someone willing to pay this mark up on a coral.... so you are taking corals that "LOOK" like the high end, high demand corals and give them their name and up the price regardless of what your actual cost is on these pieces !?!?

in all honesty i was considering an order until i read this post....
good luck with the gouging........
when one of my favy lfs's get a deal on coral so do i!!!!!!!!!!

ElGuappo, Paul's being sarcastic because he's getting tired of being accused....If you don't like the price then don't buy the corals..... It's only worth what someone will pay for it

[ElGuappo]

Originally Posted by marie

ElGuappo, Paul's being sarcastic because he's getting tired of being accused....If you don't like the price then don't buy the corals..... It's only worth what someone will pay for it

thats the thing about witten text you can never tell the context..... oops..

this still isnt something a vendor should be saying..just my opinion..

[Gooly001]

Good Morning,

Yes it is definitely is not something that a LFS should be saying and certainly not practicing. I apologize if my sarcasm was not conveyed through the post, however; if you were in my position you would be frustrated as well.

My point of the sarcastic remark was to make light of the fact that I have scoured the 4 corners of the world searching for ORA/Tyree look a like corals because they are so common, that's why ORA and Tyree have been known for; putting their names on commonly found corals (pls. read sarcasm here) and charging unsuspecting consumers premium money for them.

This I assure you is not the case. These corals are priced for a reason and the reason is that they are indeed rare to find in the wild originally and that's why they are expensive. Of all the millions of corals that are exported to North America, only a few are found to be worthy to culture by ORA or Tyree. Again, hence the price.

This person has no interest in buying from me because I assure you, he or she thinks that my prices are too high and if I was to relinquish my sources he/she can get their favorite LFS to bring it in and sell to them cheaper.

Or, he/she would also like to bring the same corals in themselves and sell it.

As a business man, it would be unwise for me to even entertain this and the only way that they feel that they can get what they want is by constantly accusing me of illegal importation because to their knowledge it is impossible.

So, I am constantly being put on the cross to defend myself. The only way to rid me of this is to come out and explain in text point to point on how it's done. And like I've expressed numerous times; it is not in my best interest to do so.

For example, I've always wanted to know how Cadbury puts their caramilk in their caramilk bar but after numerous emails and requests to find out; they still haven't told me how it's done. (pls read sarcasm here). And I'm sure Hershey thinks that this is unfair not to share their caramilk secret. Bad bad Cadbury...shady business.

To say that this person wants me to share my information with other LFS so that we all have a level playing field is pretty ridiculous in my eyes.

If your LFS feels that this is profitable enough for them, then maybe they should pursue and do the proper research on how to import/export. Until then, please do not accuse me of doing something that I've taken the time and efforts to research how to do.

Thanks and have a great day.

Paul

Originally Posted by ElGuappo

thats the thing about witten text you can never tell the context..... oops..

this still isnt something a vendor should be saying..just my opinion..

[Delphinus]

This is unreal. If I accused my neighbour of illegal activity on the basis that he drives a nicer car that I can afford myself, that would a sentiment based on pettiness and jealousy and to publicly accuse someone of such without any proof in hand is libel and the irony there is that THAT is illegal and can have consequences.

Having some knowledge of CITES process and not able to discern the activities of what another person may be doing is a huge stretch to claim illegal activity. HUGE stretch.

The LFS industry is all about guarded secrets regarding suppliers. Go into any LFS and ask them where they import their fish from. Beyond maybe in ambiguous or vague terms or maybe a geographic area, they won't tell you. Certainly not things like the names and contact info of specific suppliers. Maybe some will, but that's an individual choice on their part what to disclose. It's a fact of life in this industry.

To me this is no different. The choice is clear: buy them or don't buy them. And leave it at that. It's that simple.