Do you know about the free ananomies?

[HimSelf]

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?

If the answer is no then why are we taking these fish and putting them in an inferior condition?

Would that be negligence on us?

We are all on the stand here. So before you go bashing around think twice.

Please don't use excuses that we are trying our best or at least is legal. When was the last time you went to the LFS and ask to see the licence of their supplier, are their workers working unerder a save condition, is there child labour involved or how about human rights?

Even though we are trying our best to match the conditions of their natural habitat but in our heart we know is not even close. Is there a chance that these anaimals will die prematurely in a inferior condition? I belive the answer is YES and for those that does not agree then that is just pure ignorance.

P.S: Since most of the life stook is from 3rd world countries like the Philipens and Indonesia what do you think about the working condition? I have been to these countries (out side of the resort and the tourst area) and I don't know how to say it but some how it makes you understand that is not these people don't care about the ocean but they have no choice.

[rickjames]

Originally Posted by HimSelf

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?

If the answer is no then why are we taking these fish and putting them in an inferior condition?

Would that be negligence on us?

We are all on the stand here. So before you go bashing around think twice.


Even though we are trying our best to match the conditions of their natural habitat but in our heart we know is not even close. Is there a chance that these anaimals will die prematurely in a inferior condition? I belive the answer is YES and for those that does not agree then that is just pure ignorance.

Nobody here will claim that their tank is the same conditions as the ocean, and nobody can. And no one can say for certain whether a specific animal could have lived longer in the ocean. I won't claim that my tank is looking out for the best interest of all the inhabitants, if I wanted to provide them the best I would not be in this hobby at all, and my animals would be in the sea. But what I TRY to do is replicate their environment to the best of my abilities with the tools and information that is available to me, and think that giving my visitors a chance to have a close up look at the occupants will give them a greater appreciation for what many take for granted.

Originally Posted by HimSelf

Please don't use excuses that we are trying our best or at least is legal. When was the last time you went to the LFS and ask to see the licence of their supplier, are their workers working unerder a save condition, is there child labour involved or how about human rights?

So where do we draw the line? How about the shoes you wear everyday? Where do you think those were made? Or you mp3 player, digital camera, the computer you are using right now, etc. etc.


The fact is that you're keeping a cold water anemone in a warm water tank, and that you are not even TRYING to replicate its natural environment. But when it comes right down to it, everyone has their own ethics, and if yours allow you to keep anemones in your tank, then go for it.

BTW, we hit page 5!

[Mitch#3]

As a new member I thought I would jump right into the fray



First of all we should all go reread the introduction to Martin A Moe Jr.’s Marine Aquarium Reference (Systems and invertebrates) (Martin is still the King)

The extremes of environmental rights and wrongs are easy to determine. It is very wrong to destroy a coral reef with dynamite to collect a few stunned angelfish and wrong to use cyanide and other methods that kill far more aquarium fish than they capture in good health. It is wrong to kill whales threatened with extinction, wrong to pollute with toxic waste. On the other hand, use of fish, shrimp, and lobsters for food is right if the fishing is so managed that the populations are not destroyed and the ecosystems are not damaged. It is right to use fish and invertebrates for scientific research to learn about the nature of these animals and the effects our activities have on the environment. However, as with birds and mammals, marine organisms are an aesthetic as well as a sustaining source, and this is where some conflict of opinion lies.……..…………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ……………………Life in the sea is short and seldom sweet. Relatively few individual organisms survive to become adults, and most of those that do seldom live more than a year or two. In nature, the survival of the individual is rarely significant. It is the survival of the species that counts. An individual shrimp may be quickly inhaled by a grouper, scooped up in a shrimp net and frozen for market, or carefully collected and maintained in an aquarium for a few months. Whatever the fate of the individual animal and whatever, if any, human use is made of it, the loss of the animal to the environment is one thing, and the meaning of its death in human terms is something else.

To those of you who are ranting I would suggest that you direct your energies towards the fisheries and some if their practices that kill off 1000s of “waste” fish and inverts every day, who knows they might adapt just fine.......

To HimSelf where do you reside,

Shame on you for not running a cold water tank. Some of the fish and inverts are just to cool for words and according to the people I talked to at the Vancouver aquarium easier to keep than the tropical types.

Cheers
Mitch#3

[SeaShell]

I just got back from a visit to Ucluelet on Vancouver Island. They have a mini-aquarium there that is phenomenal! Every spring they dive to collect local oceanic animals and set up this aquarium. Then, every fall they dismantle it and put the animals back in the ocean.

You do need a permit to harvest animals from the ocean! They obviously have one.

My point, however, is that you may get information on keeping or releasing Himself's critters from the biologist at the aquarium. They are huge into education there and very helpful.

The website is http://www.uclueletaquarium.org/

I'm sure if you email them they can help you.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by HimSelf

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?

back the bus up! are you trying to compare taking an animal that is adapted to living in 51 to 53 degree F water and putting it in a tank that is 76 degrees to taking an animal that is used to 78 degrees f and putting it a tank that is 79 or 80?

if so you better step back and do a serious reality check here.

Steve

[Mitch#3]

Originally Posted by SeaShell

I just got back from a visit to Ucluelet on Vancouver Island. They have a mini-aquarium there that is phenomenal! Every spring they dive to collect local oceanic animals and set up this aquarium.

YES I agree 100%, the marine environment around Van may be "cold" but it is stunningly beautiful.

cheers
Mitch#3

[props]

man i just want to the see the pictures

[BCOrchidGuy]

Okay I can see both sides of this arguement. Collecting a local species and adapting it to tropical conditions is not natural. Yes our local waters can warm up in the summer. As a dive instructor I've seen local shallow bays hit 75* F in the summer HOWEVER most invert and fish life goes to the deeper area below the thermocline where it can be in COOLER water. You rarely see anemonies in the warmer water if they can escape, mussels that are attatched can adapt if they need to, let's face it they cant just pack up and move 20 feet deeper.
How many of us do water changes, not all our water is treated through sewage systems. How many of us have dumped out water from our tank into our toilet or bath tub. YES there is fresh water there but you know, alot of us keep fresh water as well so our parasites etc are still being introduced into the environment. Am I saying it's no big deal??? Absolutely not (Christy would kick my butt). But seriously, it is a big deal, look at our local area's where sewage out fall and drain out fall has hurt local dive sites. An area can be stripped of all life in just a couple of short years once our waste products start being introduced into the area.
In reef keeping when you are talking about anemones that have 50-150 year life span, can we say 9 months to a year is long term. One of the anemonies is splitting, that's great, or is it. How do we force anemones to split, by introducing stress, force them to split because they know when they are stressed, they need to try to propogate the species.

My opinions are simply, bad move but you've done it, learn from it maybe it will work out, I think it's irresponsible though. Our local waters have life that can rival that of any tropical dive area. Jacque Cousteau named Vancouver Island as one of his favorite dive destinations in the world. Let's keep cold water species in cold water, warm water species in warm water and let's not take cheap shots at people who offer an opinion when you posted the topic in the first place. Steve isn't your enemy, either is Muck or anyone else. Mature people have mature discussions and that doesn't have to lead to fights.

Just my 2 cents worth.. (okay maybe a bit more than that)

Doug

[Willow]

this thread cracks me up.

[TrailFish]

i'm with you