Copperband Swimming Upside Down?!?

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by paddyob

You have three CBB in your tank??

No, but have owned three. First one, I couldn't get to eat, so I returned him to the lfs after a couple months. I didn't have a QT at the time, and threw him straight into my display tank with my other fish. He survived my bully yellow tang, but I couldn't get him to eat any food I gave him. I had a very mature tank, and he would pick away at the live rock, so was obviously finding some little critters to eat, esp early in the morning and at night. But he was slowly wasting away, so thought I better get him back to the lfs before it was too late.

A few months later, I set up a refugium (which I could temporarily disconnect from my display tank) and tried again, but with two this time. I had them separated with a divider in the tank, but was successful in getting them both to eat, and later converted them onto dry food as well.

You might remember this video. I took some flak from both you and Daniella at the time for having two Copperbands in one tank. But I actually believe that having both got them feeding faster, as they learned from each other, or at least seemed to be stimulated by seeing the other go after food.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQjAZjafxM

I tried a couple times to remove the divider, but they refused to play nice. So I moved one to the display tank, and eventually sold the other. So I now just have one, and he is doing wonderfully in my display tank, eating dry food from the surface at feeding time with the rest of the fish, and then hunting aiptasia, or whatever he can find in the live rock the rest of the time.

I should mention, too, that I also have multiple Pearscale Butterfly fish in that same display tank, and they all get along fine. In fact, I believe it was them that taught my Copperband to go after aiptasia. He wouldn't touch them until they started to nip at them. It took the Pearlscales a few months, too, before they finally got the taste. But am really happy to finally have my display tank clear of aiptasia (was totally over run with them before).

BTW, I now have a proper QT set-up, and any new fish go through that for 2 months, before going into my display tank. Haven't added any fish for a while, but use it for crabs, shrimp and corals, too.

[NastayNatron]

Ok so I went out and got a bottle of PraziPro and some plastic Flower Pots. I did a 5g waterchange, added the planters as caves for the copperband and then dosed Prazi to the recommended dosage. After adding the Prazi the copperband went nuts swinging his head all over and scratching on everything he could. He seems to have calmed down now but is this normal after adding Prazi?

[daniella3d]

ok...This is a good sign he has flukes. Prazipro make the flukes go nuts and they twitch to death...then they drop from the fish. Prazipro causes the flukes to get some sort of spasmes and die from it.

I am guessing that when you put the prazipro it triggered the reaction on the flukes and that surely was not pleasant for the fish as it is irritating. Maybe he had a LOT of them but maybe not and this is a normal reaction if the fish has flukes. A fish that does not have flukes usually does not react to prazipro much. How does the wrasse react?

Watch out for infection after the prazipro treatment. Poor fish, I hope everything goes well.

Originally Posted by NastayNatron

Ok so I went out and got a bottle of PraziPro and some plastic Flower Pots. I did a 5g waterchange, added the planters as caves for the copperband and then dosed Prazi to the recommended dosage. After adding the Prazi the copperband went nuts swinging his head all over and scratching on everything he could. He seems to have calmed down now but is this normal after adding Prazi?

[NastayNatron]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

ok...This is a good sign he has flukes. Prazipro make the flukes go nuts and they twitch to death...then they drop from the fish. Prazipro causes the flukes to get some sort of spasmes and die from it.

I am guessing than when you put the prazipro it triggered the reaction on the flukes and that surely was not pleasant for the fish. That's not a good sign though as maybe he had a LOT of them.

Watch out for infection after the prazipro treatment. Poor fish, I hope everything goes well.

Alright well thats a good thing I guess at least something was wrong with him that is treatable. I just hope everything gets better throughout the treatment. Bad luck he has Lymph as well as flukes
What should I specifically watch for as for infections? Anything specific or just close monitoring? Thanks for all the help so far I am doing all I can to help this guy out!

[daniella3d]

yes close monitoring after the treatment. Like red inflated gills. It is usually visible.

Lymph should go on its own and I doubt it is very hard on the fish on its present location. It's not on the gills or does not impair breathing or vision so not so bad.

How does the wrasse react? Prazipro is gentle on fish and pretty much all creatures except internal worms and flukes. It can cut back the appetite a bit though, but that should not be too bad.

Flukes lay eggs so the treatment must be done for about 10 days so it will be best to fallow the direction, do a water change after the first treatment (after 4 to 5 days I think?) and then do a second one if the fish is eating well, just to be sure that none survived. I don't think prazipro can kill fluke eggs, why the second treatment.

YOu are surely doing all your best.

Originally Posted by NastayNatron

Alright well thats a good thing I guess at least something was wrong with him that is treatable. I just hope everything gets better throughout the treatment. Bad luck he has Lymph as well as flukes
What should I specifically watch for as for infections? Anything specific or just close monitoring? Thanks for all the help so far I am doing all I can to help this guy out!

[NastayNatron]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

yes close monitoring after the treatment. Like red inflated gills. It is usually visible.

Lymph should go on its own and I doubt it is very hard on the fish on its present location. It's not on the gills or does not impair breathing or vision so not so bad.

How does the wrasse react? Prazipro is gentle on fish and pretty much all creatures except internal worms and flukes. It can cut back the appetite a bit though, but that should not be too bad.

Flukes lay eggs so the treatment must be done for about 10 days so it will be best to fallow the direction, do a water change after the first treatment (after 4 to 5 days I think?) and then do a second one if the fish is eating well, just to be sure that none survived. I don't think prazipro can kill fluke eggs, why the second treatment.

YOu are surely doing all your best.

The wrasse was already asleep in the sand when I added the prazi. The diamond head goby did not react at all. I will leave the prazi in for 5 days, do a waterchange and re-treat. Ill keep you updated on how everything is going. Thanks again for the help!

[NastayNatron]

Alright so an update on where I am with the PraziPro treatment. I did 5 days of Prazi at the recommended dose in my quarantine. After the 5 days I did a 30-40% waterchange and re-dosed the Prazi at the recommended doseage. It has now been 8 days total with Prazi in the tank. The copperband is doing MUCH better. His appetite has cut down a bit but he is still eating. The Leopard on the other hand eats like crazy all the time.

I was planning on removing the prazi from the tank in two days which would be a total of two treatments at 5 days each. I am still noticing a bit of twitching from the copperband. Im guessing this means there are still some flukes present. None of the other fish have had any symptoms whatsoever throughout the whole process. The good news is the copperband no longer does his upsidedown thing. So as of now my plan is to do another 30-40% waterchange in 2 days and re-treat once again at the recommended dosage to make sure I get all of the flukes. Do you think I am doing the right thing here?

Here is a video I took tonight of the quarantine:

http://youtu.be/EaBj123Du7o

[daniella3d]

Yes he's twitching quite a bit. Maybe his gills are a bit irritated from the flukes and he needs to heal from that.

He's getting very skinny and laking the fat pad on the top of the head. Can you get a live white worms culture? This food fattened up my copperband in 3 weeks and he was very skinny. It also motivate their appetite during a prazi treatment.

Also maybe you can try a fresh mussle cut in half? mine really love this food and the white worms. I enrich the white worms with Selcon when I feed the worm I put about 7 to 10 drops of Selcon into the milk that goes in the bread. I would try the mussle first and see if he likes it. This is a great way of passing their stress as well as they love to pick at the shell. I tie the mussle shell to a rock woth a rubber band as they are not heavy enough to witstand the butterfly thearing it apart and will shift without being tied to something heavy enough.

It's important to treat the flukes and make sure they are gone but it is also imporant to fatten up that fish and make sure he does not get any thinner. He seem to be eating in your video but they do need a lot of rich food. Mine has been eating white worms every day for about a year and a mussle about once a week or two.

Here is a video of mine feeding on white worms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AvkIATAzV5Q

After the second treatment, I would give the fish a few days break from the treatment and if there is no improvement then redose in 5 days. Usualy the fluke eggs hatch in about 10 days, so giving a 4 to 5 days break and see if he stop twitching might be better. Get him to eat better and then if needed, redose.

Originally Posted by NastayNatron

Alright so an update on where I am with the PraziPro treatment. I did 5 days of Prazi at the recommended dose in my quarantine. After the 5 days I did a 30-40% waterchange and re-dosed the Prazi at the recommended doseage. It has now been 8 days total with Prazi in the tank. The copperband is doing MUCH better. His appetite has cut down a bit but he is still eating. The Leopard on the other hand eats like crazy all the time.

I was planning on removing the prazi from the tank in two days which would be a total of two treatments at 5 days each. I am still noticing a bit of twitching from the copperband. Im guessing this means there are still some flukes present. None of the other fish have had any symptoms whatsoever throughout the whole process. The good news is the copperband no longer does his upsidedown thing. So as of now my plan is to do another 30-40% waterchange in 2 days and re-treat once again at the recommended dosage to make sure I get all of the flukes. Do you think I am doing the right thing here?

Here is a video I took tonight of the quarantine:

http://youtu.be/EaBj123Du7o

[NastayNatron]

Alright thanks. Im not really sure where I would get live white worms. I will buy a fresh muscle tomorrow and put it in the tank as you have described and see how he does. After this set of treatment ill remove the Prazi for a few days and monitor him.

Thanks!

[daniella3d]

Before you put a fresh mussle in the tank, rinse it and brush it well under the luke warm water faucet when it is closed to make sure there is nothing attached to it that you don't want to introduce to your aquarium (they are saltwater live food). Then you open it and split the meat on one side of the shell and cut the mussle in 2. You keep the side of the shell that contain the meat and discard the other shell. Simply tie it to a rock with a rubber band. I usually brush them under warm tap water for a minute or two and make sure I brush everywhere.

You can rinse the meat a little if you wish to remove excedent of mussle juice but not too much as to remove the flavor so the fish will really smell it. just a seconde will be enough for the meat.

For the white worms culture, it cen be sent by mail. Usualy someone around you will have a culture and it is easy to start your own culture from that. All it need is a bit of moist top soil with a good part of fine peatmoss (moist) and a container and you feed the worms with a little piece of bread slightly soaked in milk with a few drops of Selcon. That's about it.

If you don't find any, you can write me a PM and I can sell you one culture for 10$ plus shipping cost. It would need to be shipped with a heat pad at this time of the year.

If your copperband go for the mussle, you will probably not need white worms right away because this is very nutritious fatty food.

Originally Posted by NastayNatron

Alright thanks. Im not really sure where I would get live white worms. I will buy a fresh muscle tomorrow and put it in the tank as you have described and see how he does. After this set of treatment ill remove the Prazi for a few days and monitor him.

Thanks!