Vertex Illumina

[BlueTang<3]

I agree with albert again the customer service provided by proline aquatics is outstanding. I am far from being a high end reefer just save up to get the nicest equipment so it is maintenance free and efficient. But i am going to take the plunge and order this light hope it works out. I will keep everyone updated on it so if u wanna cut me a deal feel free to albert.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by BlueTang<3

Thanks Ron i have been on the fence between vertex and aqua illuminations for some time. The finish and controller and software on the vertex is mind blowing vs what comes with the aqua illumination for now. The aqua illumination says on reef central that there are a few issues with poor unsealed connectors on the light and a little sketchy on warranty. But seeing the vertex is not in the states who knows what its flaws are. It is interesting the differences in the lights optics no optics cree vs rebel diodes. I would almost be tempted to try 2 12" and compare them side by side but ...I am big on looks in a fixture and i like the vertex more but thats just looks. I have the other big ones Ati powermodule t5's Geiseman metal halides so i would like to try leds. It is some interesting pros and cons for optics vs no optics. One thing that i am worried about it the shadows that i have seen on reef central from lights with optics. An y line in that article “On shallower tanks, I’m a proponent of using straight LEDs without secondary optics,” he states. “I’ve found that achieving a sufficient amount of light for high-light corals is possible, there will be no flashlight effect, no spotting, and more uniformly colored shadows.” Being my rag tank is only 10" deep this is something that finds me leaning towards the Vertex. I want to thank you for taking the time to educate us on the different versions on leds i find it to be interesting. One this that worries me tho is the increase in technology so quick in this hobby ill buy a led and something new and better will come out.

No worries. There are alot of misconceptions out there and we are still learning as this technology is new to our hobby (although not really new technology in other applications). yes, the article is correct that you can achieve good results without secondary optics on shallower tanks. For good PAR at depth you either need a ton more LEDs or to use optics. I have not noticed any spotlight effects in the tank with my array. It comes down to how it is set up. If I hold my hand under it just above the water then I can see a spotlight effect on my hand but everything blends well by 1 or 2 inches down into the water and since I have nothing that high up in the tank there is no spotlighting. That is pretty much a non-issue if the array is properly thought out.

As for advances in the technology that is going to happen no matter when you buy in. LED development is following what they call Haitz's Law (the LED equivalent of Moore's law for semiconductors) and LED lumen output has been doubling every 18 to 24 months with costs coming down as well. They figure that will not slow down any time soon.

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Hi,

Thought I'd chime in on this one:

The Vertex Illumina was designed from the ground-up as an open platform which will offer seamless integration into the soon-to-be-released Vertex Cerebra network. This network, the heart of which will be the Cerebra, will take the fundamentals of reef/aquarium equipment (eg. pumps, lighting, dosers, etc) and connect them all into one user-friendly, ever expanding network. This is something that no other lighting unit can offer. What exactly is all this 'fluff' you might ask? Well, off the top of my head, these are some of the developments currently under way:

- Fully synchronized tidal/photo cycles, as close as you will ever get to replicating the oceanic seasons in your living room. Moon cycles that run in tandem with surge cycles and beyond.
- Real-time weather simulation, not lighting, but current too. Imagine, with the advances in dosing pump and refrigeration technology, can you imagine increasing the amount of liquid food additives during a storm surge?
- Fully customizable color channel control to parallel the seasonal spectral shifts (this will become even more powerful with the release of the auxiliary modules, including RGB/UV-Cyan, etc).

These are features are very real and innovative options for the ultimate simulations. Pending some upcoming beta testing, they should be available nearing the end of this year/beginning of 2011.

As it stands, the Illumina has undergone nearly three years of R&D. There are no cheap parts or labour put into the product. The entire assembly was designed and assembled with the "buy it once, never look back" frame of mind and I have not had a single issue with any of the hundreds of fixtures that I have sold over the past few months. Every unit, every LED pad is hand tested.

Regarding the performance - the document leaked earlier this year was part of a much larger article which contains all the PAR and spectral data. This article is awaiting final drafts and editing prior to publishing.

@ Ron99

If someone from Vertex were to post here regarding this unit, you would know it (Hi).

Personally, I cannot engage into the debate of spectral efficacy as it is not a field of research to which I have applied myself. However, I am confident that, with the spectral testing being done and the impending publishing of the article being just around the corner, the Vertex Illumina will easily stand apart from the crowd in its ability both exceed the expectations and impress with its array of exclusive features.

I will refrain from making an analogy between this and the rather obvious car market. I think we're all a little more intelligent than that. I will however state that, having seen all the offerings from every manufacturer out there, this is by far the most unique and exclusive illumination offering from any manufacturer. There is no other lighting product out there as polished or feature-rich as the Illumina and this gap will only become larger as the Cerebra and auxiliary modules are released.

Hi Albert. I know I sound totally down on this unit but that's not the case. I am sure it is extremely well built with high quality components. For the record, the Luxeon Rebel LEDs are excellent emitters. Your software features are also very comprehensive (although personally I would probably never use things like weather effects and cloud cover etc.). It's great to see the technology gaining a foothold and companies trying different things.

However, I stand by my position that the design choice in terms of LED configuration is an issue. I firmly believe that you could have achieved the same or better performance in terms of coverage and PAR output with more even coverage over a users tank using fewer emitters in a more spread out configuration. That would reduce the production costs somewhat, reduce the retail price for the end user thus increasing market penetration and also used less electricity thus making the unit "greener" and reducing your product's carbon footprint which is a big issue for many people these days. I think that these considerations would have made your unit an absolutely outstanding product instead of a somewhat compromised one that will not work as well for deeper tanks or ones that are wider front to back.

If you want to talk about reconfiguring things for Gen 2 let me know

[Skimmerking]

But will a 48" fixture work on a 60" tank.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Ron99

What are you trying to get at? You conveniently do not post my well reasoned and informed response to the above post you quoted. Looks like you are trying to make this some form of personal attack against me instead of discussing the merits of the light itself. Go back and read my response to the above in that thread.

Putting on my Machiavellian hat I would say that as a newbie with very few posts and with your apparent blind support of this fixture that you work for Vertex? If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the technology in a civil and reasonable fashion I'm all for it but you are derailing this thread by trying to make me look bad in some way, taking posts from other threads out of context and not posting any information of substance.

I would suggest you contribute in a positive fashion or at least in a constructive debate as I am trying to do or refrain from posting please as this is not doing the OP or the board any good.

Sorry Ron, I didn't mean to come out guns blazing! I just have been lucky enough to play with an Illumina and was really impressed! it's hard to listen to someone bash a well put together product. So take off your tinfoil hat there buddy lol.

As for me being a newbie, I had an account here years ago, but it fell into disuse as I was abroad for over 5 years working in the industry (for some pictures, just look at my submissions for the picture of the month contest) so I'm back, and toying with the idea of another, bigger reef tank and I plan on being a contributing member here as best I can.

[bhazard1]

I love my fixture. Had to deal with Albert at proline on a couple warranty issues (bummed out meanwell driver, vertex skimmer impeller) and I'm more than happy with their customer service! I figure over the 7-10 years the fixture should last I'll have recouped most of the cost of the fixture back due to no bulb replacements t5 and MH, and lower electrical consumption, plus now I don't "need" a chiller.

[BlueTang<3]

done deal. bought and shipping in am.

all goes well it's here friday.

Got a 24' Coming

[Wanderer]

congrats!!!!

You must be VERY excited

[Coleus]

Really want the light but at $4200 for 72 inch. Too much for me! :-(

[StirCrazy]

thatnks, I got a good laugh out of this thread, goes from asking for opinions, some are given then turns to personal attack cuz people didn't agree with the opinion given.

it is natural for people to defend there purchases and remember no mater what we buy there will always be some one who has something better or some one who doesn't like if for other reasons..

I have been playing with LEDs over tanks for about 8 years now, granted mostly for lighting tanks with out corals or for moonlight or effect purposes using old 5mm LEDs . now in the last year I have gotten back into it and learned a ton more as over the last 5 years there have been significant advances in LEDs and ways of controling them.

Ron has very valid points, and from personal experiance with PAR readings and SPS growth I would not set up another SPS tank unless I can obtain about 300 PAR on the bottom of the tank, with between 500 to 700 PAR towards the top.

my reasoning for this is as follows. 10 years ago there was no info on lighting and I started off with VHO's and overdriven NO's and a LUX meter, then went to PCs and bought a PAR meter. SPS grew, and yes they will grow under NO's if set up properly, but very slowly and will mostly be brown.

then I switched to a VHO/PC system and got a bit more growth and a tiny bit of color. soon I added a 175 watt MH and again more growth and more color. after about 4 months of reading boaring articles on light and growth, I designed my own system with 250 watt MH, HQI ballasts, and home made reflectors, this jumped my PAR up to about 800 just below the surface and about 350 at the bottom of a 24" tank. coral growth took off to the point where I contenplated lowering the light levels, but didn't.. the result was colors like I had never experianced, One brown Acro I was given, and I named "butt ugly" turned into a stunning deep purple and was my faviorate coral. my millies were growing over a CM/month in dia, and soon space was becomming an issue. All water peramiters and feeding remained the same through out so the only varable was the light.

I do not agree with people saying over 1000PAR will inhibit growth for one simple reason, a coral reef in the sun gets way more than that for at least 6 hours of the day I do agree that they will use so much light then stop for the day, I concluded this as I was running my MH for 6 hours a day then upped it to 8 and coral growth increased, then I upped it to 10 and another increase, but at 12 hours there was no increase over 10 hours so I went back to 10 hours.

now as for the vertex fixture, ya they are neat, good quality LEDs, and a tone of features for the price, but they are designed to be "cool" looking and small. because of the way the did there thermal managment there is a trade of being a single strip of LEDs. so what you get as was stated is a row of light, now by not using optics this will alow the spread to light the whole tank but it will be most intense with in about 25 degrees of the verticle axis. what I would liek to see is ass on moduals to turn it into 3 strips that are spaced out so say another light strip with a heat sink that extens on only one side that can be attached to the edge of the main heat sink. so you add one on each side and overall PAR will be more even and increased.

If you have the ability you can always build a better fixture than you can buy preformance wise, but making it pretty takes conciderable skill and money, so if it is the look your after and willing to trade a bit on preformance then the vertex is a very good option especialy when the price is brought in. if your fixture is going to be hidden and you have the skills to solder, tap, ect.. then building a setup for the same money will give you better overall power, but you trade on looks..

so it is a personal choice and that always means that some one will be defending there choice, but lets try to keep it with out sarcasm and personal attacks, just say why you made your choice and don't let others opinions get to you.

Steve

[Skimmerking]

I just noticed that Albert you Jack

Originally Posted by albert_dao

I disagree. During my time as a retailer, I found the same spectra of zeal and passion to be true amongst all the financial stratas.

Regarding the price - despite what some of us would insist - this thing cost an arm and a leg, no, many arms and many legs to develop. Not only that, the manufacturing and assembly are state of the art. Even the components are top notch (no expense has been spared, as in there are NO CHEAP/SHORTCUT COMPONENTS, NOT EVEN A SINGLE TRANSISTOR HAS BEEN BOUGHT AT BARGAIN) and highly regarded within industry. The thing is built to last and the intention is and has always been "buy with the confidence that you will NEVER worry about it ever again".

EDIT:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...0&postcount=12

YOU, good sir, are HARDLY a middle-class reefer, lol.