Total Failure

[Dolf]

Originally Posted by Myka

Most LFS employees don't know enough about sw tanks.

+++1
That is only part of the problem. The other part is that they are salesmen whose product carries no guarantee and if you need to replace your livestock on a regular basis all the better. A part of it may be bad fish as has been suggested. But if that is what you suspect then a trip to a different store may be in order. If those parameters were what they considered good I would certainly question their knowledge.

I would also check the temperature you are keeping your livestock at. Many people keep it at a much lower temperature than optimal. While it may not kill your fish directly, it will contribute to the stress. Finally, don't tear apart your tank unless you do have reason to suspect that there is a rotting fish. The small burrowing snails should be necessarius (sp?) snails. They will usually eat the dead fairly effectively. Good luck with the tank and keep reading.

Oh, you likely already know- but be careful how you clean the fluvial- you don't want to kill or replace all of the bacteria on the filter. Which actually brings me to the next question (though unrelated to a complete crash...) how much live rock did you include in the tank?

[Canadian]

A few things:

1. Yes your ammonia is high - too high.

2. Yes your pH is too low (assuming your test kit is accurate - check it with a pH probe/pen)

3. Nitrite is basically considered non-toxic if you look more closely at the chemistry information posted by Randy on RC

4. Your slow drip acclimation is probably doing more harm than good for your fish - again another well discussed topic on RC. Over the years I have adopted the float, cut, drain, and dump method of fish acclimation and have had more success than I ever did with slow acclimation. However, given your low pH I don't think any acclimation procedure is going to give your fish much of a fighting chance.

[Fox]

All of you have told me that my pH is too low but no one has suggested how to solve it. On top of all that everyone has a different suggestion as to what I am doing wrong which just adds to me theory that everything I am doing is wrong.

If I cant use tap water then I might as well quit now because I am not putting any more equipment into this tank and I am not going to buy huge jugs of water just for the tank.


My ammonia is too high...Great...how do I fix it? Just water changes over the next few weeks?

My pH is too High...Once again...How do I fix that...

Why is slow dripping bad for the fish...Seems to be 2 schools of thought on that...and if it was slow dripping that hurt them then why did they last for so long afterward and then suddenly die.

I dont know what kind of salt I am using...

My test kits suck...ok great...What test kits don't suck so I can buy the right one?

My gravity is too low...I have read so much conflicting information on this I don't know who to believe any more...

Sorry if I seem ungrateful but the more people that respond with something different, the more discouraged I get.

[michika]

Have you possibly considered the fact that it is your source of livestock that is the actual issue here? Is everything you've purchased from the same LFS? Can you describe the corpses? Are their spots on them, are they bloated, what is the time frame from addition to death, etc?

You can successfully run a SW tank without RO/DI water. I used to live in Edmonton, and I ran tanks for quite some time with tapwater. I used a good conditioner, Prime, and let it sit (in a rubbermaid with a circulation pump) for at least 2 days before using it. Eventually down the line though you may want to invest in an RO/DI system, however you do not have to.

Do you have a camera? Can you post a few pictures of your set up?

To answer your other questions

1) Ammonia, just keep doing regular water changes, 10-15% as you were doing until it comes down. The ammonia may be the result of decay as you mentioned.

2) You're pH is actually low, assuming you're talking about the reading of 7.0. I'm wondering about your salt, so I'm waiting to hear about about that.

3) Acclimating fish - there are lots of schools of thought on it. Pick whichever you feel works best for you.

4) Find out what type of salt you are using

5) Bump your specific gravity up, SLOWLY, to 1.024-1.025

6) Test kits - see if you can meet up with someone here, or take your water sample to another LFS and just see what they say. As well make sure you are tracking your parameters in a notebook or a spreadsheet. This will let you easily identify known issues, or pinpoint any problems.

So if I was you, I would be changing out 10%-15% of my water each week to lower the ammonia levels, like you are doing. I would also be watching my tank for any dead fish that need to be removed asap. While I did water changes I would be slowly uping my S.G. levels. Also don't add any fish, etc. until you've got this sorted out.

Right now your biggest issues seem to be Ammonia levels, pH, and fish, in that order. Try attacking them systematically and see what happens.

[mark]

1. can use treated tap, not ideal in the long run but think about a ro/di in the future.
2. Ammonia, water changes, time and don't add anymore livestock.
3. pH, raise salinity good aeration, but wouldn't worry to much
4. I drip for shrimp, some corals but for fish, add water by the cup, works
5. If it a marine salt, again wouldn't worry, Sifto or water softener be concerned
6. I started with Hagen, but moved to Saifert as found easier. Numbers between the kits really weren't too for off from each other. For pH I had to give up on the test kits and got a meter.
7. salinity 1.026 is the ideal and a lot depends on the method of testing, found my swing arm one day was good, next day was toast against a refractometer.

Anyway here's values to go for NSW. Also not knocking Canreef members and everything here is good advice but remember we have the same range of experience as LFS employees.

Relaxing hobbie eh?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Fox

All of you have told me that my pH is too low but no one has suggested how to solve it. On top of all that everyone has a different suggestion as to what I am doing wrong which just adds to me theory that everything I am doing is wrong.

If I cant use tap water then I might as well quit now because I am not putting any more equipment into this tank and I am not going to buy huge jugs of water just for the tank.


My ammonia is too high...Great...how do I fix it? Just water changes over the next few weeks?

My pH is too High...Once again...How do I fix that...

Why is slow dripping bad for the fish...Seems to be 2 schools of thought on that...and if it was slow dripping that hurt them then why did they last for so long afterward and then suddenly die.

I dont know what kind of salt I am using...

My test kits suck...ok great...What test kits don't suck so I can buy the right one?

My gravity is too low...I have read so much conflicting information on this I don't know who to believe any more...

Sorry if I seem ungrateful but the more people that respond with something different, the more discouraged I get.

Hi, welcome to the board First, your pH is way too low for a SW tank, therefore, I don't believe the value, I've seen tap water with a pH of 7. Yours is not 7.0. Trust me, it's just not. If you have cleaner shrimp in the tank surviving, your pH is fine enough.
Tap water is not the best, but many successful people here use it. Again, not likey your problem.
what kind of salt your using is important, maybe check it and report back.
Ammonia is too high if you can read it, so yes, you need to find the dead fish. Sucks, I know, but you gotta get it out. The tank is too small to support natural decomposition.
I agree with Canadian, dripping for an hour is not required, I float to match temp, dump them in.
Salifert kits are good. Elos kits are good.
Specific gravity is too low for a reef, it should be 1.026. But, at this point, you're just trying to keep fish alive, 1.022 will not be harmful to them.

Now wait until you stabilize things a bit, do a water change to get rid of ammonia, next time you get one fish only, acclimate as described by Canadian, and see if you have better luck. If someone here has offered to test your water, take them up on it, a third opinion is great.

[Fox]

Tonight I will tear down the tank and try to find the goby and make sure I grab the brand of salt...

I keep track of all my tests in my iPod so I have them with me whenever I need them...

I am using a refractometer (the swing arm was just way to inconsistent) so I will slowly start to increase my salinity. Should be relatively easy to do with the more frequent water changes...

You guys are really awesome...this whole board just being there for people like me and taking the time to help out...Really...thanks!!! I cant say it enough...

[rocketlily]

I buy my RO water in Sherwood Park. A $60 card buys you 25 - 5 gal jugs. $ 2.40 for 5 gals. Not too bad of a price. PM me for the store's name if you need it.

[Fox]

My wife and I are going to look at RO water in the big blue jugs the next time we go and consider it...We buy the jugs anyway (just not the RO ones) so I guess a few more wouldn't be too bad...do you just have to add your salt after that then and not the conditioner I take it?

P.S. Where on that site did you get that ticker I see so often...I had a look but could only find ovulation ones...hahaha

[saltynuts]

www.tickerfactory.com