Sigh...I have seen this look before - Page 3

chevyjaxon · #21 12-30-2008, 08:44 PM

copperbands plain and simple do not do well in captivity the odd one that does is a very rare find i have kept a couple and every one has died with the same brain dead look about them the catching and selling of copperbands IMO should be banned and illegal worldwide the point is some creatures should not be kept captive the copperband cannot in most cases survive out of its natural habitat too much is not known about what they need to survive save a copperband do not buy them!

GreenSpottedPuffer · #22 12-30-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

This is an excellent thread because the posters are being candid about their experience. Many have tried several times.

Too often, like the recent posting on wrasse, the only reefers who comment on the post are the rare reefers that have success (for example with leopard wrasse.
I have not been successful and have tried a couple of times and the authors warn that these fish are difficult to keep alive.

We should try to post our own bad experience with very difficult fish as newbies are left with the wrong impression.

You are right on about posting bad experiences as well as good. People are being candid here and admitting they have tried several and failed.

To me the frustrating thing is that often times even once you get them eating, they die.

Unfortunately there is no way for us or LFS to know if they are cyanide caught until after death. Degeneration of the liver is the biggest problem. One of the reasons they may also be such picky eaters is that cyanide will kill off their gut flora which is harmed by contact with the chemical. From what I have read, this is irreversible.

Steve Robinson has been talking about cyanide caught fish for a few years now at MACNA and claims 2/3 of all marine tropical fish come from the Philippines and 3/4 of them are cyanide caught. Sodium cyanide tablets are apparently so easy to get now in some areas that its become easy for even collectors who in the past used nets because they had no access to cyanide. Now they simply crush the tablets into the water bottle and squirt the poison into coral heads or literally right into the fishes face. Respiratory is effected first and the fish are stunned. Collect whatever lives and move on. The ones who survive a few weeks come here and often die in our tanks. Perhaps copperbands just do not handle the poison as well as some other species.

The other problem with cyanide caught fish is that their immune system and central nervous systems are shot by the time they get here. So even if they do survive years, they can be very disease prone.

Of course the biggest problem is this:

"A square metre of reef is destroyed for every live fish caught using cyanide," says biologist Sam Mamauag of the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) in the Philippines.

Sad.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #23 12-30-2008, 08:57 PM

Not trying to put the hobby down or anything but makes me wonder if I would have ever got into marine fishkeeping if I knew how many fish died for me to have just one specimen or how badly the reefs are destroyed for my pleasure...

I may have stayed freshwater. Its very discouraging.

fiorano · #24 12-30-2008, 09:14 PM

wow... i have mine for a year now and he has the most personality and is my favorite fish in my tank. i knew they were hard to get eating but i had no idea they were this hard to keep. i feel bad about all this now and wish there was something i could do to help. i guess i will just have to make sure my copperband is kept alive and healthy and just be happy at how lucky i am. thanks for this thread it really got me thinking about other aspects of this hobby

GreenSpottedPuffer · #25 12-30-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiorano

wow... i have mine for a year now and he has the most personality and is my favorite fish in my tank. i knew they were hard to get eating but i had no idea they were this hard to keep. i feel bad about all this now and wish there was something i could do to help. i guess i will just have to make sure my copperband is kept alive and healthy and just be happy at how lucky i am. thanks for this thread it really got me thinking about other aspects of this hobby

If its a year then I would say its either not cyanide caught, came in contact with very little cyanide or is just one strong fish.

I am still hoping mine will pull through. He is still eating and swimming around but he looks quite dazed and not very responsive.

fiorano · #26 12-30-2008, 09:33 PM

awesome that makes me pretty happy then id be sad if i lost that guy

robert J · #27 12-30-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Not trying to put the hobby down or anything but makes me wonder if I would have ever got into marine fishkeeping if I knew how many fish died for me to have just one specimen or how badly the reefs are destroyed for my pleasure...

I may have stayed freshwater. Its very discouraging.

I agreed, it is very discouraging !

naesco · #28 12-30-2008, 10:24 PM

There is one thing we can all do and that is this.
When someone posts concerning a known difficult to keep species, we all can post a short warning concerning our experiences and in this way avoid newbies from repeating our mistakes.

Local fisherman protect their reefs because it is thier livelihood. The problem is roving 'fisherman' that use cyanide for short term gain without any regard for the damage they are doing to the reefs and the critters that live therein.

Delphinus · #29 12-30-2008, 10:29 PM

That's some sobering statistics. It makes me think that indeed the importation of wild-caught fish needs to end altogether. That's simply unsustainable practise.

My CBB is now about 2 years old. I would have to say that the people who are beating themselves up in this thread should not do so, I don't think the problem was your "skills" per se but something further up the retail chain. I didn't realize how horrid the hit to miss ratio was with this fish, I just picked up a small guy one day at the LFS. Very picky eater but is easy enough to satiate with a few staples such as mysis, aiptasia (I let them run rampant in one tank so I can move rocks over once in a while), and grocery store shellfish. Unfortunately everyone loves mussels and oysters so it's hard to make sure he gets enough, I stick it in a narrow crevasse that only he can fit in and so on. Anyhow point being I don't think I do anything special and I don't consider my husbandry at a level any better than anyone else. I think the source must be a factor here.

Anyhow sorry to hear how bad it really is out there. Does make me have some second thoughts about what impact the hobby is having.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #30 12-30-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

There is one thing we can all do and that is this.
When someone posts concerning a known difficult to keep species, we all can post a short warning concerning our experiences and in this way avoid newbies from repeating our mistakes.

Local fisherman protect their reefs because it is thier livelihood. The problem is roving 'fisherman' that use cyanide for short term gain without any regard for the damage they are doing to the reefs and the critters that live therein.

I agree. If people at least think twice about fish like Copperbands, it can help. The problem is not going to be solved at the collection end but can be addressed at the demand end. If people don't want copperbands, they loose their value.

I really hope one day many of these fish can be captive bred. I have heard of some programs that have that goal but have no idea how far along they are. Some of them use protected areas of the ocean (like some of the aquacultured LR suppliers) and some in giant tanks. Either way, it would be nice to head towards a healthier, environmentally friendly hobby.