If you could have 220V for your tank, would you?

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Monti-Man

The benefit of running higher voltages is that it draws less amps. And less amps = less heat and less heat is better efficency which translates to better over all power consumption.

No, not Less heat. Less copper size required. Heat is Watts. Volts = Amps. Double the voltage, you halve the amps. BUT, the Watts/HEAT is still the same. Now, if you were talking line Loss, then yes, higher voltage, less heat created due to less line loss. But that only comes into play on longer cable runs not typically found in the residential areas

[Delphinus]

How different is 220 from 240? As soon as we get talking about 3 phase and whatnot I kind of zone out because it's over my head. How do you run a 240 circuit?

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

How different is 220 from 240? As soon as we get talking about 3 phase and whatnot I kind of zone out because it's over my head. How do you run a 240 circuit?

It's not different. Voltage varies across the country. 110-120v is normal, and 220-240v is normal ranges. Come call it 110/220 others, like me, call it 120/240. Just habbit. Now, taking as 3 phase power into a panel actually makes 110v and 208v It's hard to explain, but has to do with phase vectors and a bunch of trigonometry.

Just remember, Lower the voltage, the more current is needed for the same Power/Watts.

And FYI, a HP for an electric motor, is equivalent to 746Watts, regardless of voltage. Watts=HP.

So, for a 1HP motor, running at 240v =3.1 amps
same motor running 120V =6.2 amps

It's the same Watts(746) But the current draw on the wires is less.

now, if it was a 10HP, it would be 31amps or 62. THAT'S a large cable size difference.

[mike31154]

So are GFCI receptacles or circuit breakers for 220 easy enough to source? Do they even exist? I'm fairly certain you can't install a conventional GFCI device into a 3 wire circuit, black/red/white/green (green earth wire is not counted). With two hot wires, black and red feeding current through the single white neutral, there's going to be an imbalance, tripping the GFCI. So the next question would be, how comfortable are you hooking up devices near/in the water without GFCI protection?

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by mike31154

So are GFCI receptacles or circuit breakers for 220 easy enough to source? Do they even exist? I'm fairly certain you can't install a conventional GFCI device into a 3 wire circuit, black/red/white/green (green earth wire is not counted). With two hot wires, black and red feeding current through the single white neutral, there's going to be an imbalance, tripping the GFCI. So the next question would be, how comfortable are you hooking up devices near/in the water without GFCI protection?

No, I would not use a 220 GFCI. Acctually, personally, I do not have ANY GFCI's on my tanks at all. I'm an electrician. BUT, if you want some, GFCI Plugs are the way to go. Why? Well, when something grounds out, Which piece is it? And if your using a GFCI breaker to protect the whole tank and equip guess what? The whole tanks power goes out. Now, most of you put boxes with multiple plugs under the cabinet. Spend the extra $(Its piddly compared to what we got into our tanks really) and do separate GFCI plugs. Then you would have the 220 for any lighting/funky Euro pumps, but also, GFI plugs for the immersed equip.

Thats how I would do it.

[Aqua-Digital]

We are putting a 220V spur across the basement when it is finished this spring to where the fish tank will be.

Coming from the UK I am used to 220V and have (personally) found not having 220V quite restricitve in regards to what is available especially in lighting and taking care not to go over the rated ampage on 110V ring mains.

The lighting I will be using is 220V anyway so for me its a no brainer.

My thoughts are if you have the ability to run it and especially if planning a new tank build then for sure consider it.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Moot point anyhow now, looking at Home Depot though my jaw hit the floor when I saw the cost of copper. My plans to string 8 or 10 guage and use 20-amp breakers quickly dissipated. 14 guage and 15A will have to do, and this was already a dismaying cost for 200' of wire. Crazy.

Anyhow, so I more or less decided against running the 220V circuit on the spot then.

PS. Yeah, call the presses, I've been working on the tank project! I'll try updating the build thread soon.

ah, but remember you can do what I did, use one 10 gage wire to feed the sub panel, which is good for 30 amps of 110 or 220. so I used 220. then from the sub pannel I split it to short runs of 110 for a total of 60 amps of 110 so I had four 15 amp breakers for my tank.

When I set up a big tank in Kamloops I will probably bring more then also use 220 for ballast and such. power is the same but less heat is developed for the same power as the current is lower. this is why table saws and air compresors that can run both work much better on 220. also start up draw is lower so less effect on the rest of the power in the house.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

For my next tank, Im running split 120/240. So I'll have 2 circuits of 120, and a 240 source if I want to get some European stuff Dont cost no more, and splits the load up.

how are you going to compensate for the change in cycles?

yes I agree, use individual plug GFI on each outlet so you only lose the circut that has the problem, if you have two of anything (pumps, lights, heaters ect) make sure they are on different circuts, this way if you lose one of your pumps the other will keep going.

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

how are you going to compensate for the change in cycles?

yes I agree, use individual plug GFI on each outlet so you only lose the circut that has the problem, if you have two of anything (pumps, lights, heaters ect) make sure they are on different circuts, this way if you lose one of your pumps the other will keep going.

Steve

What change in cycles??? 120/240 IS 110/220 It's the same. I have just allways called it 120/240 throughout my electrical carrier. But, if you were to measure voltage at alot of different peoples houses, you would find that it ranges between 110/220 and 120/240. There is no one SET voltage. It fluctuates

Think of the household power as 2 1.2v AA batteries put together end to end. Now take a wire from each end, the + and the - of the other one., and also one from between the middle of the two batteries.
Now, from one ouside wire to the center, it's 1.2v, across 1 of the batteries. Same for the other wire to the middle. Now from outside to outside wire, thats 2.4V. Both batteries added together. Thats like how your house 120/240(110/220) power system is. The Neutral wire is the center wire between the batteries. Between 1 wire and neutral =110, the other wire and neutral, 110 as well, but a different power supply basically. Between both wires, the power supplies add together and theres your 220.

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

What change in cycles??? 120/240 IS 110/220 It's the same. I have just allways called it 120/240 throughout my electrical carrier. But, if you were to measure voltage at alot of different peoples houses, you would find that it ranges between 110/220 and 120/240. There is no one SET voltage. It fluctuates

He may be referring to the frequency, not voltage. Frequency in most countries using 220V such as Europe is 50 Hz vs. the 60 Hz we use for 110V in North America. Either way, it's not a big issue with most of the equipment we use for our tanks. There is some frequency sensitive equipment out there, mostly the more sensitive electronic components. Items such as pumps will actually run a little faster with 60 Hz as opposed to 50 Hz, but they'll run... They may even run a little cooler since at 60 Hz the sine wave is 'faster' and the dwell time at peak voltage is less. Downside is you may lose a little torque. Some electronic ballasts may not deal well with the change in frequency depending on circuitry design. I'd venture to say even some MH magnetic ballasts designed for 50 Hz may not drive your bulbs optimally since they work on the transformer/capacitor principle, which is frequency sensitive. The chararcteristics of such a circuit changes with frequency.