Where are the good fish stores?

[canadawest]

Great advice, but...

I will also assume some responsibility as Sam has seen my tank before.

People see my beautiful and healthy Bubble-Tip, with the lovely two Ocellaris living in it, and assume that they can have this great symbiosis just by purchasing the necessary ingredients.

Hopefully those of you who are considering an Anemone, will think about the choice, and heed some of the advice given above. While I don't agree with everything said above, I will say that they do require attention unlike most of the inhabitants in a reef tank.

But also consider this. Mine seems to be thriving under only VHO lighting. It has tripled in size and split once in the 6 months I've had it. And only gets fed shrimp and scallops once every week, sometimes less. But also is actively hosting a pair of clowns who look after it, which I'm sure makes a huge difference.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, it's not all doom and gloom with Anemones, just be prepared to give them whatever they need, and some are more needy than others.

[DJ88]

Out of curiosity Andrew, what do you not agree with in the last posts? This will be a good opportunity to discuss anemones' and have it on our board for others to find in a search later on.

[Troy F]

Andrew, I agree with you, it isn't all doom and gloom with anemones but I will stress again that the environmental impact of taking them from the wild is huge and should be considered. I suggest looking in the reefs.org library for an article by Rob Toonen. It's very informative. Rob on anemones

[Samw]

Before I quit the hobby 10 years ago and restarted it recently, I use to have a fish only tank that contained a maroon and a tomato clown. They never bothered each other. So, I thought that the maroon clowns were peaceful except with each other based on what I read and experienced. I guess Perculas with Maroons are a different story. Thanks for the tip on that.

My reef tank is now 3 months old. Until I bought the anemones, and got some coral frags from Jamie, it had nothing in it except live rock, snails, hermit crabs, a xenia, an emerald crab, a clam, and lots of amphipods.

As far as research, I searched the net for several weeks and read as much as I could during my free time. I knew that anemones were difficult and that the bubble-tips were considered one of the most hardy. I had also read that some hobbiests had success with the long tentacle and the Sebae (I must have subconsciously blocked out the articles about failures). I had read that only species with a chance of survival are being imported (Although it seems to me now after reading that article from Troy, that this is probably not true). I did read that light was very important and I hoped that having the tank exposed directly to natural sunlight during the day will help.

None of my anemones right now are white in color. They look good but I know that this can change very suddenly. The Bubble-tip is still extended and looking great. I bought some Hikari Mysis shrimp and also plan to feed them some prawn.

After seeing Andrew's anemone and various websites on the net that documented success, I liked the idea of getting one and had looked for months but couldn't find one (I guess with good reason). I was so happy when I finally found a shop that sold anemones.

ReefBurnaby, yes, I know that they eat fish but I read that fish can usually get away from anemones and that usually the fish that they capture are dead ones that sink to the bottom or sick ones that can't get away.

Troy, what do you mean by "Another reason to avoid the store". Have people had bad experiences? I thought they were relatively helpful. My friend was wanting to buy a seahorse and the guy at the store pretty much did everything to make us not buy it because he said that they are difficult to keep with fish and that they eat only live foods but sometimes take Frozen Mysis shrimp.

Thanks for the tips everyone. They've been helpful though now I can see that the odds are against me. Pretty downright grim I'd say.

[img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Sam W ]

[Troy F]

Troy, what do you mean by "Another reason to avoid the store".

Sam, you're situation alone should be enough of an indicator. I'm not sure how big your tank is but keeping three anemones in all but the largest tanks will be difficult. That is pretty common knowledge that they failed to share with you.

I've heard them refer to orange spotted file fish as easy to keep as well as tell a lady that an octopus would be fine in her FO tank as long as it can't escape. Those are just two comments that come to mind. The advice on the octopus may have been close but they failed to mention that it would systematically hunt down the rest of her fish. Something that probably was worth mentioning. I've watched them sell fish straight out of the shipping boxes, this is partially the fault of customers but should not be allowed. I can't think of anything else at this moment but if I do I'll let you know [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] .


PS: Personally they did make good on a problem with shipping damage to a tank I bought from them but it did take somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2 months. In that time I was lied to and in an off-hand way asked to "fight". I agreed whole-heartedly and was then asked to leave or they'd call the police. I was confused on that one. I feel that I'm probably a bit of an a-hole so take this with a grain of salt.

[George]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam W:
I did read that light was very important and I hoped that having the tank exposed directly to natural sunlight during the day will help.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do I have a feeling that you don't have metal halide lights? Forget about Dr. Shimek's theory on feeding instead of light. I think Ron is way ahead of himself on this one. :-)
Besides, how many days of a year you get strong enough sunshine in Vancouver? Maybe half the time?
Off topic, I missed the sun in California. Used to work there for two years.

Regards,
George

[reefburnaby]

Feeding is important because lighting is only part of a complete diet (I sound like one of those breakfast commercials). Its like a human being drinking water -- you can survive off of it..but that is it.

Anyway...just read up on other reef boards (like RC, reefs.org) and see how other people keep them...especially those who are propagating them.

- Victor.

[Troy F]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Feeding is important because lighting is only part of a complete diet (I sound like one of those breakfast commercials). Its like a human being drinking water -- you can survive off of it..but that is it.
- Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Victor, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Where did you pick this little tid bit up? Ever since Ron made the now infamous comments on reefcentral, everybody is running around saying that sunlight just keeps these things alive but not thriving. I followed a lengthy debate on fishnet after the comments were made and an overwhelming majority felt that anemones main need is light. Some felt, (and I'm paraphrasing), that food capture was a bonus.

I fully realize that this goes against what Ron says but there were a number of intelligent people debating this topic. Many equally valid points were made with references and personal experiences. One that really stood out was a comment by Charles Delbeek and his experience with captive bred Stichodactyla haddoni. Charles kept his in a floating basket in full Hawaiian sunlight with little to no feeding. They are growing rapidly. This may have been a personal communication so it may not be logged at fishnet.

Having said that, I think Ron is awesome and if you read the thread at reefcentral in its entirety, you'll see that at the end he mentions that his anemones are kept under MH lighting. He of course feeds them a huge amount and also has nutrient problems because of the feedings.

My personal experience is that with good lighting and minimal feedings my S. haddoni grew at a decent rate. It was about 10" when fully expanded. I can't comment on longevity because it stretched up and found my pump intake after about a year in my tank.

I know Victor wasn't saying not to light the anemones but I want qualification on the whole, "...you can survive off of it..but that is it", comment.

Any thoughts? (Christy, you out there?)

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Well, actually...this is another one of my theories (long before I read Ron's stuff).. As humans, we need to eat a diverse diet. We can't just eat only bread and expect to grow big and strong (and have some sort of intelligence). There are lots of vitamins, minerals and other goodies in bread, but it just isn't enough to bring your body to its full potential.

Think of a coral as a plant. For a land plant, you give it sunlight and some water...and it will grow for some time. But eventually, some plants die...even with proper and regular watering schedule. WHY ? Well, for it survive it needs sunlight and water. But, it also needs fertilizer and other minerals to maintain its health and such.

This is the same as an anemone...lighting...sure it will grow. I am sure there are some that are growing very well with just lighting and chomping down some pods for extra supplement. But, we just blared out that we are destroying the homes for many clowns and we shouldn't keep anemones without a proper habitat. Now...if anemones natural habitat is not only sunlight...but an occasional treat...don't you think we should give it some in its new artificial home ?

Why does an anemone has stingers ? Do stingers help the anemone get more light ?

How about a mouth...so that it can open its mouth so that more light can get in ?

Hmmm...maybe that could be true...but the chances are...no [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway, I hope you understand my point of view on this subject. I may be wrong, but I do my very best to provide my little corals with the best chance for it to survive and thrive. I just feel sunlight is not enough for coral or an anemone to thrive...just like they would in the ocean. It needs food, light, and fertalizer (i.e. vitamines and such) for it to grow and be happy -- but I won't overdue it. (i.e. feed it tons...but keep it alive in the dark).

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[Troy F]

For what its worth, I agree almost completely Victor. I do think that Sunlight is the primary nutrient provider.