Raising Alk. - Page 2

Wheelman76 · #11 06-09-2014, 05:07 AM

When I first started in this hobby I was using C balance and was having the same problem initially with keeping things balanced. I called two little fishes and left a message , 30 minutes later Julian Sprung himself called me back from his cell phone ( pretty good customer service hey) lol. Anyway he told that it was important with C balance to use equal amounts of each part A and B as its not just Alk and Cal, but many other trace elements in there as well , and doing so would throw off the ionic balance. He told me to use soda ash or calcium chloride to adjust the levels where I wanted them , and then use C balance to maintain. Anyway I'm no expert ,just passing along what I was told from a well respected source.

Myka · #12 06-09-2014, 01:52 PM

^ That doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm not sure how long ago it was that he told you that. Most 2-part additives don't have trace elements in them, and those that do, certainly don't have a lot of trace elements. Nowadays most 2-part or 3-part additives have trace elements sold separately to add as well.

Anyway, the point is that scientifically calcium and alkalinity are taken up by corals and invertebrates at a ratio of 20 ppm of calcium per 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) alkalinity. Trace elements are also taken up at other relative ratios and may or may not be added to the dosing regime by the manufacturer or the hobbyist. The trouble is that this all looks good on paper, but when it comes to the real world the numbers can be affected by lots of different things. However, theoretically, the ratio that the calcium depletes will be the same ratio as the trace elements in the calcium mix so if calcium is high then the associated elements should be high as well, same with the trace elements in the alkalinity mix being low if alkalinity is low assuming that the manufacturer or the hobbyist has added trace elements to the mixes.

For those interested in what "lots of different things" might be, Randy Holmes-Farley discusses some of the things here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/ Keep in mind it was written 10 years ago, so some of the equipment he discusses is not common anymore.

Wheelman76 · #13 06-09-2014, 02:35 PM

That was two years ago , here is what is in C balance

Myka · #14 06-09-2014, 02:51 PM

Hunggi, don't quit with the C-Balance, it is a great product! I'm no fan of BRS additives. Especially for a smaller reef like yours where the cost isn't significant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelman76

That was two years ago , here is what is in C balance

I know C-Balance is one of the few that have a full load of trace elements in their recipe which is why "back in the day" C-Balance was the awesomest! C-Balance has been around a long, long time.

With the OP wanting an increase of 1 dKH alkalinity and a decrease of 60 ppm calcium we're talking about a 15% change. This is not going to be the be all end all as far as overdosing or underdosing the trace elements in the mix. Especially when the OP is doing regular waterchanges. Julian Sprung is being overly technical. Especially in the case of the OP where his tank doesn't have a real big uptake. If it was a fast-growing SPS tank that was uptaking huge amounts of calcium and alkalinity (and trace elements) then the chances of it getting severely out of balance as much greater. For the average hobbyist with an LPS dominant tank, it's not going to be a problem.

At the end of the day though, a nice big waterchange with good quality reef salt will help balance all the ions better than most people can do with a trace element mix. I've been in the habit of doing a 75-80% waterchange 3-4x per year on my reefs for many years now. It sure makes a difference!

hunggi74 · #15 06-09-2014, 03:08 PM

Thanks Myka. No, I wasn't going to give up on C Balance yet. For me it's all about ease of use AND affordability. I don't want to add anymore trace elements or amino acids or etc... That's a real slippery slope once you start. Keeping things simple as can be will keep me in this hobby a lot longer

there's too much going on with life in general to have one hobby consume all our time. Heck, I haven't even been able to get around to testing my params after my last water change on Saturday

I did start dosing A and B at different times so that's a start I guess. Old butts move slow.

On a side note:
7:52AM Wheelman?? What in the world are you doing up at this time??? I don't know if I trust anything coming from you this early in the morning...

Wheelman76 · #16 06-09-2014, 03:10 PM

What is it about BRS additives that you do not like?

Myka · #17 06-09-2014, 03:10 PM

7:52 AM is early?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelman76

What is it about BRS additives that you do not like?

I've had diatom outbreaks on mature tanks when switching from Fauna Marin to BRS calcium. I have also had issues with cyanobacteria when using BRS calcium. My tank has never thrived on BRS additives. The BRS alkalinity seems ok. The BRS magnesium clumps real bad. I much prefer Fauna Marin ... or C-Balance.

Wheelman76 · #18 06-09-2014, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunggi74

Thanks Myka. No, I wasn't going to give up on C Balance yet. For me it's all about ease of use AND affordability. I don't want to add anymore trace elements or amino acids or etc... That's a real slippery slope once you start. Keeping things simple as can be will keep me in this hobby a lot longer

there's too much going on with life in general to have one hobby consume all our time. Heck, I haven't even been able to get around to testing my params after my last water change on Saturday

I did start dosing A and B at different times so that's a start I guess. Old butts move slow.

On a side note:
7:52AM Wheelman?? What in the world are you doing up at this time??? I don't know if I trust anything coming from you this early in the morning...

Haha I'm not too sure , couldn't sleep for some reason. But now I'm going back to sleep , it's far too early for me lol