Sand vs no sand?

[Coral Hoarder]

Was thinking about Cori's wrass one of my favorite fish and I know not all sleep in sand just the pretty ones Do lol

[banditpowdercoat]

Just got rid of all my sand. Had 2" initially for like 3 years. Moved tank, went almost BB. Maybe 1/2" But was mix with some really fine sand, for another 3 years. Yesterday had tank emergency. Bottom bulkhead leaking. Complete drain. I removed ALL my sand. One corner, and under the rocks was soo full of detritus, it was like over 2" thick in locations. Total dead flow spots I know. But hard to get flow under the rocks. And impossible to siphon. Now I want sand again, I like the looks. Wish Crushed Coral wasn't such a Nitrate grabber and easier to clean too. My CUC had pretty much dissapeared and I never noticed for quite a while. Can't seem to keep Inverts well either lately.
My 150g is moderate stocked, Yellow, Hippo, Naso Tangs, Coral Beauty, Foxface and 2 clowns. Clam seem's Happy, have a RBTA that shriveled up, and seems to not like light. Lights are low tho, and he is slowly expanding more, but moves up and down the rocks daily.
My WC intervals are like 6 weeks due to my work schedules etc. Tank is left fully automated while I am in camp for 3 weeks at a time...

Thoughts on my getting more sand? What more CUC should I get? Had 2 Brittle stars and 2 Serpent stars, But only 1 Brittle star is left too

[hfp75]

Sand looks good and if healthy is good for the tank.

By healthy I mean, sand is a bit of its own separate world in a tank. It can help with filtration. A healthy sand bed will have a bunch of snails and a few sand stars (depending on tank size). The key to a healthy sand bed is that it is being turned over frequently. A stagnant sand bed is bad news. If your able to maintain it then go for it!!!

If you are going to forget all about it and let it become a nitrate / detritus sponge then it's bad news.

When your fish die off you notice within a day or so, because you can see it. What's alive in the sand you can't see so you need to be very observant!!!

Also remember that when you clean your tank you should vacuum or siphon off/out the sand and take out a bunch each time, wash it and dump it back in..... just helps keep the brown sludge that can accumulate down.

[Leach29]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Great to hear everyone's views, and thoughts.

Maintenance is going to be an issue for me, I was hoping to keep it as simple as possible. I am having it in wall with a fish room and my space is limited being able to syphon some spots due to framing ect. I will take pics and show everyone when I get my build thread going. It concerns me that I will have many dead spots.

If I have run refugium that would help with the water quality ?

[hfp75]

Originally Posted by Leach29

Maintenance is going to be an issue for me, I was hoping to keep it as simple as possible. I am having it in wall with a fish room and my space is limited being able to syphon some spots due to framing ect. It concerns me that I will have many dead spots.

Your water change schedule will be up to you, when you change the water out just be sure to get out the waists that you can. I have dead spots that get cleaned once a year.

When I 'change out water' 2x / month I am really using the 'exiting' waters force and momentum to pull out some sand and the crap (solids) that collect within it - a means to vacuum the sand. The residual sand and solids in the water drainage bucket get washed a few times with tap water until it is clean and then dumped back into the tank. I lose very little sand down the drain during this process.

Usually Once a year I do a 'large clean'. I take a day and remove rock and coral into another tank / rubber-made and remove all the sand and wash it until it is clean and then it goes back in, along with all the rocks and corals. Then if the old water looks clean it can go back in and I fill the rest with new water. Being careful with water temps during this process.

Originally Posted by Leach29

If I have run refugium that would help with the water quality ?

Yes, BUT it will only remove nutrients that are 'dissolved/suspended' in the water. It wont help you remove solids that collect.

* Detrius (fish poop) are solids that slowly break down in the tank and as it breaks down releases P04 and N03. Your goal is to remove detrius before it breaks down with weekly water changes. That doesn't happen for a lot of us. So, your sand collects it and slowly releases the P04 and N03 that are held within it. You can vacuum out the thick/semi solid sludge that is detrius, but you will never get all of it. So, there will always be some P04 and N03 that is being released into the water. Hence the refugium/sump.

Refugium/Sump is where you will try to keep some:

1. algae(s) that consume P04 & N03 that is suspended in the water as it grows, as another way to remove the toxins (P04 & N03)
2. skimmer that also removes leftover suspended waists and aerates the water.
3. extra live rock that also removes P04 and N03, as another way to remove the toxins (P04 & N03)
4. Where you can 'feed' & 'return' reactors - two main types:

• Phosphate removal reactor - Use Rowaphos!!!
• Nitrate removal reactor - with biopellets....

*refugium - is more of a refuge from predation for small critters - a safe tank...
*sump - is where water processes are handled

Since the little critters can live safely in a sump there is terminology overlap.

You could have a tank for just the live rock and a tank for just algae - the goal is water purification but it will also act as a refugium. Then have it drain into a sump for the skimming and return pump..... most people I doubt truly run a dedicated refugium and it is really all about the water purification and the pods and slugs just happen to live in there.....

Does that make any sense? or did I just ramble?

[jordsyke]

^^^ what he said, also tons of flow will keep the detritus suspended in water column to be removed by skimmer, and also to eliminate dead spots

[kien]

Or you could just go bare bottom. A sandbed sure sounds like a heck of a lot of work for little to no benefit !

[hfp75]

Remember that bare bottem, 'area' LxW in inches has bacteria growing on it.... and is flat

A single piece of sand, if it were a cube (surface area LxWxH), 1mm on all sides has a total of 6mm of area that bacteria can live on. So, 1mm (of flat) vs 6mm per layer of 1mm sand. By adding sand your good bacteria have 100s if not 1,000s (%) of increased area to live on which is good for the tank (depending on how much sand you add it could be millions or 10x's of millions).

You just need to take care of it.


* Don't forget we are talking about sand in a display tank so it doesn't need to be crazy deep. Its not a 'Deep Sand Bed', most people choose the wrong size of sand (& depth) for their display tank....

[Leach29]

Does that make any sense? or did I just ramble?[/quote]

Makes total sense.

Thank you, I appreciate everyone's input.

[mark]

lots of fine looking bare bottoms here