Warning to Profilux Users

[sphelps]

This is not an anti-profilux campaign, from the start here my goal was very clear to make others Profilux users, many of which I consider friends, aware of what I believe to be an issue. However I have no control how others choose to use this information. I have provided only fact or exactly what I was told by support staff to which I can only assume to be fact.

To come here and instantly state my intentions being only to damage Profilux clearly illustrates Profilux owner failed to even read the first post of this thread. It's also insulting to a customer who has been with Profilux virtually from the start and at times aiding in many sales, setup and support. Be aware I also received comments from support staff that I found insulting however these have since been removed and even my posts on the support forum were edited which may have made my comments look overly full of frustration while the only real frustration came from first being insulted and the issue being shrugged off as user error. In addition I can conclude all Profilux staff has failed to even fully understand the issue as despite my numerous attempts of stating reasoning for my max on time it's continuously blamed as an issue. Top off water is added slowly, 10min has prematurely set off alarms in the past on summer days, 20min is a perfectly reasonable number given how my system operates. Increasing flow rate and decreasing on time will do absolutely nothing in regards to this issue. While support staff claims to attempting to propose solutions, in my eyes their goal seemed more related to pointing blame which is not a solution. If you're looking for an example of an actual solution I posted one in this thread.

In regards to a float sensor, again I've said numerous times, I don't care. I found it alarming that such things can expire which is I pointed it out as one of the issues people should be aware of. The fact the owner of the company calls this complete nonsense and then reverts back stating otherwise after discovering what support staff has stated is rather amusing. Also be aware support staff strongly felt the use of stored sensor was a clear issue and the key to whole failure, not something they just had to say because in extremely rare cases it could happen. Also note according to GHL sensor is 4 years old while I purchased it approximately 2 years ago. I have no intention of getting retailers involved but just be aware obviously inventory of such devices are not controlled despite what support staff suggests. At the very least adding a date of manufacture that the rest of the world can understand might not be a bad idea.

In regards to the real issue I'm glad revisions are being made which is what I wanted. It's obvious without such a thread nothing would have been done. Again I have no intentions of destroying Profilux reputation or boycotting nor do I have interest in compensation or warranty replacement.

My initial attempts on the profilux support forum were to first find out out if what I believe to be an issue is related to perhaps just a firmware bug or perhaps just something only relating to my device alone. If this was not the case I thought pointing out some issues would be in the best interest of everyone and my hopes were profilux staff would take this more seriously and at least notify both the public and the owner of the company. As I suspected they did neither hence why I left that site and came here. I also wanted a reason to why something as critical as an error alarm can be so easily reset, obviously there is a reason for this as the the developer has now stated yet I still wait for it. If the reason is sound stating it would justify it's existence perhaps turning what I consider a flaw into a feature I just wasn't aware of.

As a professional engineer I have obligations towards public interest in all aspects of my life, not doing my best to make the public aware of this goes against not only these ethical obligations but also my personal beliefs.

[gregzz4]

Very nice to see you here Matthias

Originally Posted by Matthias Gross

... The only aim of this thread is to damage the reputation of our products ...

In defence of the OP, they were, in no way, trying to damage the reputation of ProfiLux
It was made very clear from the start that the OP was only wanting to warn other users of the product that a catastrophic failure could occur

If you read the end of the first post, you will find this ...

Originally Posted by sphelps

Really not looking to point blame what so ever, obviously there are some things I could have implemented or done differently to avoid this but just never saw the need to do so given these two things were not something I was aware of nor are they documented. My intentions here are only to make others ware if these issues. My initial attempt at making profilux aware of the issue didn't go overly well as I attempted to find reasoning for the automatic reset and assurance something would be done to fix it, rather I think they concluded I screwed up by replacing a worn (but working) sensor with what I believed to be new seeing how I purchased it a couple years back but never used it.

Also please, I'm not looking for advice. I know you all have it and would love to chime in but not now, maybe later. Thanks for looking!

I see nothing there that is damaging to ProfiLux
On the contrary, all I see is the OP taking full responsibility for the issue

I will leave the rest of the comments to the OP, but, again, it is really nice to have you here and hopefully your comments about the float sensors will clear up some issues

[Matthias Gross]

yes, maybe you are right about the aim of this thread

if this is the case then I apologize and take it back

I don't want to attack the OP in any way, and again I am very sorry for what has happened
but I have to defence the company and the products

you can see the result - regardless what the original aim was: the reaction of some shows that they got now the impression the ProfiLux is the worst thing in the world....

the debate about "expiring floater sensors" is also not OK, there are statements which are just not true

[Myka]

In all of this I see two flaws...

1) Tank was left unattended for too long (if you value your tank someone should check it daily).

2) Alarms should have to be manually reset (that's really basic engineering).



In the end though, it's all about redundancy. Redundancy is the only insurance we have. No way on Earth would I have my system set up in a way that would allow that much freshwater (or dosing fluids) to be pumped into the display. I think sometimes we rely on computers and gadgets too much, and put too much faith in them.

My system is designed so that if my freshwater bin gets pumped dry for some reason the sump can even hold all the volume so I wouldn't even have a wet floor. The top off bin needs to be refilled every second or third day, and that's fine by me because it's a safe way to do it. I cringe when people have their top off system hooked up to unlimited supplies of water. It's an accident waiting to happen. My dosing canisters are small; I have large premixed containers that I use to refill the dosing canisters once a week. My dosing pumps have dosed a whole weeks' worth of fluid in about 8 hours which ran the dosing canister dry. This was not enough to cause significant reactions. The redundancy I have implemented means I have to "do stuff" with the tank more often, but I have a lot of time, money, and energy in that glass box so it is worth it to me. When I go on holidays an aquarium maintenance company checks my tanks 1-2 times per day. It's not cheap, but neither are the corals in the tank!

[Myka]

I don't mean to sound insensitive at all, I feel really awful for what sphelps has gone through with this horrible disaster. I thank sphelps for sharing his story, and I hope we can all take something from his experience.

[sphelps]

Myka, I agree with your statements but be aware I did have someone enter my house twice daily although their experience with aquariums is nil and their prime objective was not related to the tank. I also had someone with experience on call and checking on the tank every few days. While I would have loved to have someone with great experience in aquariums checking my tank more frequently my remote location makes this rather difficult. Also note this failure occurred very quickly within 12 hours if you can believe it. By the time the issue was noticed the damage was done.

In regards to top off water supply yes perhaps a smaller amount of available supply would be better but I have issues with this as well. If I leave for an extended period of time then IMO it's better to have enough top off water available for the entire time otherwise I have to rely on others fulling a container with RO water which in the past is something that has gone very badly for myself personally and others I know as well. So for extended trips the amount of evaporation water available IMO will need to exceed that of the amount that cannot cause damage. Using the small bucket approach to me is not redundancy as it basically adds the need for another top off system which in fact increases your chances of failures rather than decreases it. While obviously there are many way to do this I stand by my method but agree more redundancy is needed but more related to what I mentioned earlier and perhaps additional floats or something else along these lines.

Lastly I draw attention to my last request in the first post of this thread.

[Myka]

Jorjef, automation is tha bomb, but it's definitely not a fail-safe.

Originally Posted by sphelps

Lastly I draw attention to my last request in the first post of this thread.

I wasn't offering advice (I know you don't like advice). I was just offering some ideas to those reading this thread.

I can't see how failing to refill a top off container could come to a situation as bad as the one you were dealt with though. The Tunze Osmolator quits pumping when it runs out of water, and the replacement pump is $30. If my sump runs out of water my Poseidon return pump will also quit operating. If the Poseidon happens to burn out I have a spare pump on hand with the appropriate plumbing fittings ready to go. The system is quite fine to run without the sump for a few days (the biggest consequence being no dosing), although the aquarium maintenance company would surely notice long before that. The company tested the tank for the "big three" weekly and reported to me if they were out of range for appropriate instructions on rectifying the problem.

There are always those things we just don't think about though, and those are the things that kick our butt and crash our tank. In your case, you didn't think about the repeated power outages. Who would? I've certainly never experienced such a thing.

[sphelps]

The problem relates to filling the container once empty especially if relying on others or equipment in your absence, doing so manually from an RO increases chance of flooding and doing so automatically requires additional ATO which doesn't add redundancy but rather another point of possible failure.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by sphelps

The problem relates to filling the container once empty especially if relying on others or equipment in your absence, doing so manually from an RO increases chance of flooding and doing so automatically requires additional ATO which doesn't add redundancy but rather another point of possible failure.

When I worked out of province (for 18 months) I kept two 65 gallon barrels full of RO/DI water. These barrels held enough for one month of top offs and waterchanges for my 90. I was always home at least once a month to refill the barrels so the barrels never ran dry and the RO/DI system never ran unless I was home. The maintenance company would use a 2 gallon bucket to manually add water to the 5 gallon top off vessel. He wanted me to automate it or use a bigger top off vessel, and I said "absolutely not". He also wanted to add a float valve to the RO/DI barrels so the RO/DI would turn on automatically, but I ixnayed that idea too. He was paid to do it a certain way, and he understood when I explained. My biggest fear was clam spawning, and I eventually sold the clams because of that fear.

When I was a carpenter, my old boss used to always say, "You gotta be smarter than the tool." ****ed me off at the time, but now I laugh. Yep, that is so true. In this case, we have to be smarter than our gadgets.

Anyway, I'm sure you're tired of this thread by now...I would be. Feel free to hit me up for frags when/if you come to that point in the future.

[jorjef]

What I have taken from this is I'm keeping my "five gallon lift to the tank and pour in top up system" for a long long time. Call it old school, cheap, inept regarding technology but it's flawless. After reading this post and others regarding automated system mishaps be it dosing or top up has pushed me further away from ever exploring them. They're just not for me.