Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by pinhead

Not impossible but not very likely.

Occam's razor - entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

interpreted as: the simplest hypothesis is more likely to be the true than are any others

made up of genetic elements from four different flu viruses – North American swine influenza, North American avian influenza, human influenza, and swine influenza virus typically found in Asia and Europe – "an unusually mongrelised mix of genetic sequences."

whats the simplest hypothesis for four different viruses combining to make our h1n1 of today? a Mexican fertilizer pile baking in the sun or a laboratory?

[Myka]

After talking to my mom who is a nurse in a doctor's office, she has convinced me to get the vaccine.

She told me that the regular yearly flu shot has contained a very similar H1N1 virus of a weaker strain for several years. This "new" H1N1 isn't anything new at all, it's just a particularly strong strain we are seeing now. Old people aren't getting sick and dying from it because they have likely all been exposed to it many years ago, it's us young'uns that don't have any antibodies against it yet, so it being particularly strong it's kicking out butts.

My mom also said that the adjuvant that everyone is so worried about is not normally used in Canada, but has been used for "hundreds of years" overseas in Europe. She says that the clinic she works in has given several hundred H1N1 vaccines already, and they haven't had any reports of anyone getting any more sick than the usual flu shot (may make you). It's the adjuvant that makes your arm sore though, but it is supposedly no worse than a Tetanus shot.

Anyway...I changed my mind. I'm going to get mine. I have asthma, so I will be able to get mine on Monday.

[pinhead]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

that's fine, i just want to know what science? what specific piece or pieces of science makes your decision based on evidence? all i have been asking all along is i would like to see this science. so far what i have seen makes me believe the swine flu shot is not worth the associated risks considering the meager benefit. and until i see proof that says other wise my mind wont be changed, i'm sorry.

Unfortunately, the evidence I could provide is from scientific journals based on research that is often funded by the government or by industry who are all part of the conspiracy.

Skepticism is fine and an open mind is a neccesary skill in a scientist. Sometimes a new discovery goes very much against our current thinking.

Science does not have all the answers. New experiments or new technology sometimes results in a completely different way of thinking of things.

However, any results must be repeatable and falsifiable.

Vaccine caused you to grow an extra big toe? Show that can happen again and again - except this time under controlled conditions so we know it was the vaccine and not something else. No evidence the vaccine causes you to grow an extra toe? Accepted until there are studies that would indicate something to the contrary.

To true believers, evidence not supporting their ideas is minimalized. They attack the evidence presented rather than providing evidence of their own.

So if you do not accept all the evidence presented to you - what evidence do you have? (and no more youtube or wikipedia)

And Occam's Razor was used to illustrate that between the theory that the pharmaceutical companies engineered H1N1 and released it to increase profits or that it is a naturally occuring pandemic - the former is not very likely.

[pinhead]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

sorry to hear that.
why do you sound so sure of everyone's beliefs? look at the poll numbers
55 i'm taking it
64 no
24 it's a conspiracy
we will leave the others out beacuse i would say its a 50/50 chance they get it or not.
so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

The poll conducted on Canreef is unscientific. The key word again is Scientific. There is an area of mathematics called Biometrics or Biostatistics that is used to determine the statistical validity of the data obtained.

The way this poll is set up means you can't base any conclusions on it.

I would expect that most people picked the last choice to be clever and have a little fun rather than actually believing the government or corporations are behind the flu outbreak.

Thats what conspiracy theories, astrology, UFO's, parapsychology and the rest of the pseudosciences should be - entertainment.

When these things start determining your decisions regarding health care - that is your decision. When they effect the decisions regarding the healthcare of your children it is
irresponsible.


If you truly beleve in these things, there is nothing I can do to show you that you are wrong.
You have the right to make mistakes based on your beliefs

However my decisions are based not on beliefs but on evidence - science

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by pinhead

The poll conducted on Canreef is unscientific. The key word again is Scientific. There is an area of mathematics called Biometrics or Biostatistics that is used to determine the statistical validity of the data obtained.

The way this poll is set up means you can't base any conclusions on it.

the only conclusion i was drawing is that he was kinda being a jerk to 1/6th of the people who responded to this poll by saying if you think its a conspiracy, your mentally unsound in you beliefs and should be disregarded for it.

Originally Posted by pinhead

I would expect that most people picked the last choice to be clever and have a little fun rather than actually believing the government or corporations are behind the flu outbreak.

its fun to tell people what they believe and then tell others they should disregard those people because of their so called beliefs? i may not believe in creationism, but im also not going to say all creationists are Amish, racist, lepers, who also believes that god is waiting to kill all of us at any moment, and electricity is some type of golem waiting in the wall to commit evil acts. you guys seem like you want to shove beliefs and intentions down everyone's throats.

Originally Posted by pinhead

Thats what conspiracy theories, astrology, UFO's, parapsychology and the rest of the pseudosciences should be - entertainment.

focus on the truth.... and yes i find most of that stuff pretty entertaining . i like provable, logical facts.

Originally Posted by pinhead

When these things start determining your decisions regarding health care - that is your decision. When they effect the decisions regarding the healthcare of your children it is
irresponsible.

make an informed choice. there are varying opinions, and then the so called facts. please check out GSK's own product fact sheet for the vaccine it has been posted a few times already. they even state on the product info sheet this product has side effects. its in the fine print at the bottom .

Originally Posted by pinhead

If you truly beleve in these things, there is nothing I can do to show you that you are wrong.
You have the right to make mistakes based on your beliefs

why not? if you have no proof to show me the vaccine is 100% safe and has no side effects, what am i to believe?
again GSK's own product information sheet states there ARE side effects.

Originally Posted by pinhead

However my decisions are based not on beliefs but on evidence - science

that's fine, i just want to know what science? what specific piece or pieces of science makes your decision based on evidence? all i have been asking all along is i would like to see this science. so far what i have seen makes me believe the swine flu shot is not worth the associated risks considering the meager benefit. and until i see proof that says other wise my mind wont be changed, i'm sorry.