Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[midgetwaiter]

I missed a couple days of this because my "mild" flu took a turn and I couldn't walk without smashing into things. Seriously, if you haven't had this you have no idea.

Blue Tang, sorry about your friend, hope you are feeling better.

Ron99, thanks for your participation, nice to hear from somebody that knows their stuff.

Dingbats and loonies, I've always looked on you people with the type of fondness one shows a three legged dog, it's not your fault you look silly. In this case I have to say your stupidity is putting other people at risk.

Thanks to pinhead we can see that many of the same people that are convinced the flu shot is unnecessary or is going to hurt them also believe that there is a secret program involving planes flying over our cities dumping strange chemicals into the air that modify our behavior. They also believe that the US Government carried out the world trade center attacks, these people are idiots. There is a tendency in our society to be respectful to people regardless of what strange ideas they hold. This is generally a good thing, otherwise we'd have scientologists hanging from trees. However there is a point where good intentioned debate and niceties are no longer appropriate and this point is right at the end of my nose.

Your inability to understand math puts me and my family at risk, that is not okay. 2.5 micrograms of a non toxic mercury compound isn't going to hurt anyone. The squalene additive in the GSK vaccine has been used in 22 million doses in the UK. There is no extraordinary danger in this vaccine, count to 22 million on your fingers and toes.

If someone has a rational question about how this vaccine works I'd love to hear it. Dingbats be quiet, adults are talking.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I missed a couple days of this because my "mild" flu took a turn and I couldn't walk without smashing into things. Seriously, if you haven't had this you have no idea.

sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Dingbats and loonies, I've always looked on you people with the type of fondness one shows a three legged dog, it's not your fault you look silly. In this case I have to say your stupidity is putting other people at risk.

do you remember history? who has done the most damage to humanity? governments. look at Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. Hitler was democratically elected, and his political contributions came from vast sources, even traceable to the British royal family, and the Bush family. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar
remember the Canadian government put Japanese in concentration camps during WW2. our governments stupidity and its more then willingness to cover it up is really what costs lives of families.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Your inability to understand math puts me and my family at risk, that is not okay

my ability should have no effect on you. you have a brain, use it, if you want it use it. i personally will not put anything in my body like that unless its a dire circumstance, small pox for example. but again this is choice. again anything anyone says should have no effect on you making choices for your family's health. especially when its on some internet forum or such .
like it was said by many presidents in one way or another; i am assured that the people, when properly informed, will not fail to act in the appropriate manner.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If someone has a rational question about how this vaccine works I'd love to hear it. Dingbats be quiet, adults are talking.

yeah, so childishness aside.....
what don't you like about what i said?
where are your facts that say no the product information sheet from GSK is wrong? it lists some pretty bad side effects. where are your studies your relying on to prove that what your giving your child is safe?
i'm quoting from government and manufacturing guides.
i just don't like when you make a blanket statement like everyone who thinks there might be something wrong with a vaccine is a "Dingbat" and should "be quiet"

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

many of the same people that are convinced the flu shot is unnecessary or is going to hurt them also believe that there is a secret program involving planes flying over our cities dumping strange chemicals into the air that modify our behavior. They also believe that the US Government carried out the world trade center attacks, these people are idiots.

1. why do you think that 9/11 was real? because if you believe the government, you are now part of the minority that thinks 9/11 happened exactly as the government said. i would like to know what you base your bashing of other peoples ideas for.
2. no one is talking about chem trails accept for you and pinhead so yeah....
3. why do you sound so sure of everyone's beliefs? look at the poll numbers
55 i'm taking it
64 no
24 it's a conspiracy
we will leave the others out beacuse i would say its a 50/50 chance they get it or not.
so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

[marie]

Well for me the whole point is moot because I can't get my vaccine until the middle of dec at the earliest....If this is a conspiracy to do away with the little people then its a pretty poor one

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

I don't believe any one of those is true in this case and am on the fence about getting the vaccine but what makes someone a nut job because they believe in something that is different from what you believe?

So far your the only one throwing names out there and acting childish. You don't have to have the same beliefs as anyone else and that's what makes this such a great country but have some respect dude. Your only response so far is name calling?

Do you really believe that on absolutely NO level what so ever, criminal or political conspiracies exist? Do you really think there are no organizations, government or otherwise that could on some level be trying to deceive you for their own gain?

Please don't assume that those of us who believe in conspiracies believe that planes fly over cities dumping anything or that UFO's are being covered up or that the WHO is trying to kill off most of the world. People love the extremes but they are ridiculous. Its just your way of trying to make people look silly when in fact something like a drug company releasing a virus to cash in on the meds and vaccinations, hand sanitizers, ect. is NOT that out there...I don't believe that this time but how is that not possible?

Look up the word unlikely.

[pinhead]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

sorry to hear that.
why do you sound so sure of everyone's beliefs? look at the poll numbers
55 i'm taking it
64 no
24 it's a conspiracy
we will leave the others out beacuse i would say its a 50/50 chance they get it or not.
so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

The poll conducted on Canreef is unscientific. The key word again is Scientific. There is an area of mathematics called Biometrics or Biostatistics that is used to determine the statistical validity of the data obtained.

The way this poll is set up means you can't base any conclusions on it.

I would expect that most people picked the last choice to be clever and have a little fun rather than actually believing the government or corporations are behind the flu outbreak.

Thats what conspiracy theories, astrology, UFO's, parapsychology and the rest of the pseudosciences should be - entertainment.

When these things start determining your decisions regarding health care - that is your decision. When they effect the decisions regarding the healthcare of your children it is
irresponsible.


If you truly beleve in these things, there is nothing I can do to show you that you are wrong.
You have the right to make mistakes based on your beliefs

However my decisions are based not on beliefs but on evidence - science

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by pinhead

The poll conducted on Canreef is unscientific. The key word again is Scientific. There is an area of mathematics called Biometrics or Biostatistics that is used to determine the statistical validity of the data obtained.

The way this poll is set up means you can't base any conclusions on it.

the only conclusion i was drawing is that he was kinda being a jerk to 1/6th of the people who responded to this poll by saying if you think its a conspiracy, your mentally unsound in you beliefs and should be disregarded for it.

Originally Posted by pinhead

I would expect that most people picked the last choice to be clever and have a little fun rather than actually believing the government or corporations are behind the flu outbreak.

its fun to tell people what they believe and then tell others they should disregard those people because of their so called beliefs? i may not believe in creationism, but im also not going to say all creationists are Amish, racist, lepers, who also believes that god is waiting to kill all of us at any moment, and electricity is some type of golem waiting in the wall to commit evil acts. you guys seem like you want to shove beliefs and intentions down everyone's throats.

Originally Posted by pinhead

Thats what conspiracy theories, astrology, UFO's, parapsychology and the rest of the pseudosciences should be - entertainment.

focus on the truth.... and yes i find most of that stuff pretty entertaining . i like provable, logical facts.

Originally Posted by pinhead

When these things start determining your decisions regarding health care - that is your decision. When they effect the decisions regarding the healthcare of your children it is
irresponsible.

make an informed choice. there are varying opinions, and then the so called facts. please check out GSK's own product fact sheet for the vaccine it has been posted a few times already. they even state on the product info sheet this product has side effects. its in the fine print at the bottom .

Originally Posted by pinhead

If you truly beleve in these things, there is nothing I can do to show you that you are wrong.
You have the right to make mistakes based on your beliefs

why not? if you have no proof to show me the vaccine is 100% safe and has no side effects, what am i to believe?
again GSK's own product information sheet states there ARE side effects.

Originally Posted by pinhead

However my decisions are based not on beliefs but on evidence - science

that's fine, i just want to know what science? what specific piece or pieces of science makes your decision based on evidence? all i have been asking all along is i would like to see this science. so far what i have seen makes me believe the swine flu shot is not worth the associated risks considering the meager benefit. and until i see proof that says other wise my mind wont be changed, i'm sorry.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

another person in jail for a victimless crime. if i was jailed for not paying income tax it would be a vast net loss to the government, but they don't seem to care, and do it all the time.

If everyone felt like you your "victemless crime" would hurt millions of people. I used to work in accounting and received lots of government garnishment orders for people avoiding taxes, not one went to jail they just had to start paying what they owed like every other Canadian. You state it as a fact that people in Canada are jailed "all the time" for not paying taxes. Lets see some back-up of this, what percentage of tax evaders get sent to jail instead of having to pay. You said so yourself it costs money to put these people in jail and the gov't wants the money not more debt load, your claim makes no sense. If you feel things are so wrong and corrupt here, the government is out to get you and things are better elsewhere, then Canada has a right that every Canadian is entitled to, the right to leave. Just the fact that we can post messages like this without punishment should tell you something. No ones forcing anybody to take the H1N1 vaccine it is personal CHOICE not a requirement. If you don't want the shot then don't get it, it's that simple.

[bignose]

Statistics say your more likely to die from the common flu than from swine flu.
Personally I think there is alot more risk driving here in Edmonton than the H1N1!