Puffer eating clownfish

[sphelps]

Talking about ethics and bringing in large fish, you would be surprised how often retailers receive fish they didn't order. Retailers usually have to order direct rather than through wholesalers to compete with competitors and get a better variety of stock. The problems associated are usually related to poor communication capabilities. For example, sometimes you order a "large" tang and you'll get a 6" tang, another time you'll get a 16" tang. And sometime you'll get something you didn't even order and probably never would. There simply just isn't as much control as some might think or hope for.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than just blaming retailers, in the end we the hobbyists are to blame.

[superduperwesman]

I still think you're in the wrong hobby based on a lot of your threads and posts

[my2rotties]

I got into the hobby since my foxface and his tank were left in the house by the previous owners.

I feel that I am in the right hobby and any fish that lives in my tank (unless you are clownfish), will have the very best of everything.

Just because I chose to pursue this hobby further does not mean I condone suffering and depletion of the reefs due to poor ethics. Large fish should not be allowed to be caught as they are future generations that will breed and provide more fish for reefs and hobbists alike. Large fish have lived long enough to be fit and healthy, they deserve a chance. If we take these fish away from reefs the weaker fish will breed and weaken the future genrations. Have you not seen what has happened to the Cheetah in Africa?

I have hiked the Bow and Elbow river a million times and seen fish and wildlife monitering fishermen to make sure the small fish are not being kept so they could contribute to a new generation of fish... why is there no laws for reef fish? The larger fish have reproduced and finished the circle of life already. Yes I am contradicting what I am saying by that statement, but mature river fish will not be put into tanks for the rest of their lives. If stores had ethics and I am not saying most do not, they would not want to buy large mature fish. If the demand for these fish was not there, nobody would be catching them, would they? The way they get caught is deporable and at least I am now aware of it, and want to see changes. It does not mean that I hate the hobby. It means that if people are aware and care, maybe we can make a difference in how things are done. Look at the shark fin industry? It makes me sick and something needs to be done. If governments did something about it, maybe change would happen. If enough people speak out maybe it would happen. If we comply no better comes of it...

Because I am a newbie I make a point to ask questions to to others with knowledge and experience. Even if those questions are contraversal in nature. I believe we must speak for those that cannot speak for themselves.

Just because my feelings may be different to others opinions, does not mean I would push my views onto them. However I will always ask the questions since they need to be asked.

I love this hobby and love the people I have met on these forums. I am a newbie but that does not mean I am not entitled to have my own views and opinions. I have no hard feeling for being called out on this matter since rebuttal teaches all parties different views and ways of thinking.

Originally Posted by superduperwesman

I still think you're in the wrong hobby based on a lot of your threads and posts

[superduperwesman]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I am a newbie but that does not mean I am not entitled to have my own views and opinions.

Never said you weren't entitled to you opinion. I'm just saying that based on what I've seen of your opinions I don't think this hobby is for you.

Doesn't mean you have to agree, or that you have to leave the hobby, it just means that in my mind a lot of your comments don't exactly mesh with the hobby.

I just don't understand how you enjoy the hobby with all these internal conflicts/struggles you seem to be having.

Fish die... but you seem to take it hard, or you did with Eddy, but it's going to happen again. Are you going to get a memorial tattoo for every time??

Your taking fish that are from the huge ocean and shoving them in a little glass box for your own personal enjoyment... the hobby is one that sources from selfishness I guess everyone has different lines for how selfish we can be but it seems like your trying to play both sides.

"I don't think large fish should be caught there should be laws but... I have a big puffer in my tank that's "so special" in part because of his size ... but I saved him from the tiny store tank"

"Take him back"... "What? Never... why so some else can buy him? I wont make them suffer by making such a ridiculous purchase."

Your encouraging a market that you supposedly don't like by keeping a big fish... take it back and let the guy sit on it if it's so unethical... if someone else buys it at least your conscience can be clear.

Oh wait... now he's not that big for your tank now... well neither are some of these other fish your trying to make laws about when they're in other peoples tanks.

But right now all I hear is you complaining about a problem that your currently contributing to. Your enormous posts simplified are you battling between your selfishness and your guilt. Find your line quickly or pretty soon vendors wont be selling you the fish you want b/c ur bashing them afterward... even though you'd do it all over.

Good thing I'm not a lfs owner cause I'd reserve the right to refuse you business, but $20 says you'll be back to a lfs before the months end.

[my2rotties]

Well he said he paid way more for the bigger fish because only one fish would fit in the styrofoam crates they ship in. So I figured he had ordered the larger fish since he had to pay more to ship them. That is according to what he said.

Originally Posted by sphelps

Talking about ethics and bringing in large fish, you would be surprised how often retailers receive fish they didn't order. Retailers usually have to order direct rather than through wholesalers to compete with competitors and get a better variety of stock. The problems associated are usually related to poor communication capabilities. For example, sometimes you order a "large" tang and you'll get a 6" tang, another time you'll get a 16" tang. And sometime you'll get something you didn't even order and probably never would. There simply just isn't as much control as some might think or hope for.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than just blaming retailers, in the end we the hobbyists are to blame.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Well he said he paid way more for the bigger fish because only one fish would fit in the styrofoam crates they ship in. So I figured he had ordered the larger fish since he had to pay more to ship them. That is according to what he said.

Not necessarily, it sounds like he was explaining why the bigger fish cost more, it's still very likely he didn't order it that big. I would bet he sold the fish for close to "cost" since he paid so much for shipping. Why purposely bring in large fish when you make more money selling smaller fish and they are easier to move?

[sphelps]

I agree with Wes and I stand by my previous statement that we hobbyists are to blame.

If you're against bringing in large fish or certain species of fish, despite what you might think, buying them doesn't help the situation. You're only supporting the exact cause you're against.

In order to make a difference you should not purchase the fish you're against bringing in. That way the retailer is more likely to sit on the fish and yes it might die but the retailer will loose money and might take further efforts to avoid bringing in the same fish. By purchasing the fish you may think you're helping but you're not, the retailer now thinks that the fish sold and he could sell another. Simple supply and demand, the theory of any business.

[Floop70]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Talking about ethics and bringing in large fish, you would be surprised how often retailers receive fish they didn't order. Retailers usually have to order direct rather than through wholesalers to compete with competitors and get a better variety of stock. The problems associated are usually related to poor communication capabilities. For example, sometimes you order a "large" tang and you'll get a 6" tang, another time you'll get a 16" tang. And sometime you'll get something you didn't even order and probably never would. There simply just isn't as much control as some might think or hope for.

Unfortunately it's more complicated than just blaming retailers, in the end we the hobbyists are to blame.

I have a friend who is a retailer and I agree with Steve on this one. It seems that at least one fish per shipment is wrong. Anything from the wrong species to the wrong size or even one he didn't order at all. Thankfully he hasn't received any 16" fish yet.

any fish that lives in my tank (unless you are clownfish),

That made me chuckle.

Hope your new puffer makes the trip from BC safely and enjoys his new home.

[my2rotties]

I know mistakes are made and that cannot be helped. I don't frown upon that at all. I also don't blame Danny for my fish. He has a whole store to run, and I cannot bear my puffer's liking of sushi on him. I just wish I knew there was a chance. At least I know he is eating...

I am really happy about the new puffer I hate the holidays but now I have something to look forward to. At least I have some time off to watch my tank and get some work done around this house.

Originally Posted by Floop70

I have a friend who is a retailer and I agree with Steve on this one. It seems that at least one fish per shipment is wrong. Anything from the wrong species to the wrong size or even one he didn't order at all. Thankfully he hasn't received any 16" fish yet.

That made me chuckle.

Hope your new puffer makes the trip from BC safely and enjoys his new home.