Looking for feedback, Vodka / Carbon Dosing, Big Tank, Big Nitrates

[Llorgon]

Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to say what would happen if you added more than the recommended dosage. Im interested as well though!

Here are the two articles I was reading before starting vodka dosing.

https://www.melevsreef.com/articles/dosing-vodka-why

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

The guy in the first article has a similar size tank to yours, I think he said 280g. And it took about 7 months to see a drop. It seems like he did use some nitrate and phosphate removers during dosing. So maybe vodka, water changes and nitrate/phosphate removers would help. Although it could be risky if things drop too fast and too much.

The second is a guide with the standard dosing instructions. Near the bottom of the article it gives some examples of some adverse effects of to much carbon dosing. Sounds like some fish can be sensitive and you can get bacteria blooms.

Overall it dose kind of seem like do a dose, monitor and be ready to correct the tank if needed.

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[Frogger]

I am not sure if I missed it or not but do you have uncontrolled algae growth or cyano growth in your tank?

[Simons]

I use Red Sea NoPox daily. My 250 had issues with nitrates and phosphates for years. It took 6 months at dosing at the recommended amount to get my numbers down to 'normal' ranges. I still have to dose daily.



Only thing I didn't like at first was cloudy water, which makes sense since it is a binding agent so it would precipitate out of the water and clog the filter socks pretty quickly.


I was up to 35ml / day at my levels initially, now I am down to 10 ml / day to maintain. Works wonders really.


Vodka, vinegar just forms of carbon dosing, I find the NoPox was the better option over time (not as cheap as vinegar) but...


Overall I would say carbon dosing in general is highly effective but it takes a long time to really see numbers drop.

[Bill1119]

Thanks again for the input!
Post 1 of 2 today

Frogger, my algae growth is not under control, but I have seen worse. It was just algae till the last month, when I had a cyano outbreak. Other than the cyano it has not been significant enough that I can manually remove it other than that on the sand or glass. I have a few tangs and a urchin that keep the algae growth short. There should be a lot more coraline algae showing on the rock.

The basic corals are reasonably healthy, the star polyps are at about 70%, and the mushrooms and leathers seem not to care other than not substantial growth.

Here is a photo of the current condition of the tank for reference.

CanReef UpLoad.jpg

[Bill1119]

Thanks for the info Simons,

Would you be willing to disclose how high your nitrates were when you were having problems?

I will do some reading on the NoPox and give it consideration.

I have a comfort level with vodka, because I had been down the road once, but I am not far enough into dosing yet that it would be a substantial problem to switch (ramp one down and one up with discretion)

I had thought about vinegar briefly but am clinging to the familiar with vodka right now.

[houlisam87]

If you want to solve your high NO3 problem, do the Maximum water change
90 % without catching any fish out of your tank...
That will do the trick, instead doing all the dosing try to get the result many months later hopefully,
Do that and maintain with carbon dosing whichever you prefer will all work fine
Just a suggestion and it works for me , which I took all the sands out afterwards.

[Bill1119]

Post 2 of 2 today...

From my research to date, it appears that risk of aggressive dosing is largely two - fold.

First if the bacteria colony is grown to fast, the "bloom" can rapidly deplete the oxygen, resulting in pH and alkalinity falling and potentially crashing the tank. Let alone the harm the can be done to the fish and corals from instability in the tank parameters.

Second, if the bacteria colony is not reduced to a reasonable size by the time the nitrates and phosphates reach the desired level, the bacteria can continue on a run away and totally eliminate all the nitrates and phosphates (this is my interpretation of reading between the lines but not specifically stated) which also has a negative effect on the tank. Articles are less forward in discussing this effect, they only state that it leads to problems with tank parameters.

My tank carries some additional risk on the second item as it has had sustained high levels of nitrates for a long time, which leads to saturation of the rock and sandbed. As the bacteria consumes the nitrate in the tank, more is released from the rocks and sand. It is possible that I could build an oversized bacteria colony, and when the saturated nitrate runs out, I could end up taking my nutrient levels down to far. Or end up with problems with tank parameters, that they are somewhat elusive on.

Based on my experience last time I was carbon dosing, I still want to take a more aggressive stance, but have more understanding of the risks. So I am on course for the following plan, increase Vodka dosing by 1.2ml per week for the first 12 weeks, then reduce to 0.5 ml increases per week.

Once I see a 50% reduction in nitrates, I will reduce the dosing by 25% and then maintain consistent dosing. I can monitor to determine if the nitrates are still falling or if need be slowly increase the dosing to begin the nitrate falling if need be.

At each 1/4 point from my initial 250ppm, I will reduce the dosing by 25% to try and scale the dosing down and not over shoot on the bottom end.

There are a few things that are on my radar for consideration, the first is that my UV sterilizer may inhibit bacteria growth, I will be shutting it down for the time being. It may even be an asset to slow down the bacteria colony on the bottom end.

The other item is to increase the oxygen saturation, I have some old skimmers around that I could put on the tank. I dont think I want to set-up ozone at this point, which is the other option to increase oxygen saturation.

I still expect this will take more than 6 months to get any substantial results, With the amount of saturated nitrate in my rock and sand. Once I achieve 125 ppm, I will increase the water change frequency to help add stability.

Cheers
Bill

[MrNaso]

I have a 500 gallon + system,mixed reef with fish,feed heavy.I have used nitra-guard bio-cubes titanium for 3 years and my Nitrates stay in the area of .30
phosphates .05 or less.I also run two large skimmers.
Great product add approx 250ml a month to replace what has been used up.

[LifeIsGreat]

I'm not an expert by any means, I probably know less than you, but have a look at some of the discussion regarding sand bed depth. Unless you regularly vacuum out that shallow bed all the way to the glass, that sand might be saturated to the point where it can't consume any more bad stuff. That may be where your high numbers are coming from.

[juanlien]

Following!this seems like a very interesting thread