Ever feel really sad after visiting fish store?

[Myka]

Originally Posted by TimT

As someone who's been in the industry for a long time there are a few things that need to be said in this thread.

There are good shipments and bad shipments and the fish/corals coming out of them should not be reflective on a store. If a fish shipment gets cold in transit the fish will typically breakdown with ick. This is normal.

There are stores that have separate quarantine systems for newly arrived fish. Their fish are more money. It all boils down to speak with your money but don't expect to get a Mercedes for a Hyundai price. No slight on Hyundai. Ever go to the big American fish stores with the marine biologists on staff, how nice and clean etc. Look at their prices and consider they're in USD which is almost 38% exchange and their costs of supply are cheaper.

18 years ago I was importing Certified Cyanide Free fish. The stores wouldn't buy them because their customers wouldn't pay the higher prices. Even though there was lots of talk about people being willing to pay for Certified Cyanide Free fish.

There's a saying "When you point a finger there are four more fingers pointing back at you". How many people have UV sterilizers on their systems? How many people have Chillers on their systems? How many people have back up generators for their systems? How many people have safety redundancy on their tanks heaters. It saddens me when I hear these stories of people losing their tanks due to easily preventable causes with a little money spent.

This site is not for bashing stores as all stores have their own issues... it's for helping people have the most fun in the hobby.

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

[Animal-Chin]

Don't forget the fact that the fish are starved for days before shipping so they don't poop in the bag. It is amazing that fish survive the trip as well as they do.

First question I always ask the store, how long has this fish been here, second question, is it eating and a lot of times I ask to see it eat. The stores are always more than happy to drop some mysis in the tank. I've walked away from fish that would just swim by the food.

But all that being said, if you own a fish store and you're putting 6 inch triggers in a 20 gallon tank you may want to rethink that...or not...

[Potatohead]

Originally Posted by Myka

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

I already mentioned I would absolutely do this if it were possible, so where is it possible? I didn't realize it was an option up here. I have brought fish across the border before but it is a major hassle with customs so to find someone in Canada would be great.

[Jakegr]

Originally Posted by Myka

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

That is definitely the other side of things! Consumers, if given the choice, will always trend towards the less expensive option. Fish stores need to stay in business and attract customers. I don't blame them for doing things to keep costs down.

That being said, I truly believe the entire industry (from supply to store) needs to be reformed. Animal welfare in the aquarium hobby is abysmal due to the supply chain. Similar stories have occurred in other sectors, ranging from puppy mills to the importation of exotic birds. The government needs to get involved and regulate the aquarium hobby in Canada, in my opinion. I doubt it will reform on it's own.

Poor animal welfare needs to be looked at independently of economics. It is no longer acceptable in today's society. The only reason the aquarium hobby has lagged behind others is that the general public do not perceive fish in the same way they do a puppy, but I think that gap is narrowing. If the industry doesn't improve welfare, I believe it will eventually be shut down.

I'm not blaming stores for this problem! It is a top to bottom issue that requires the entire industry to change it's format (many will think this is unrealistic I suspect). There are many positives, such as employment in developing countries, advancing fish husbandry, boosting local economies, etc. We just need to start looking out for the health and welfare of the animals that are the bottom of it all.

Everyone, please do not rip me to shreds over my opinion