Ever feel really sad after visiting fish store?

[Coasting]

[********] is a disgusting horrible place with horrible morals.
Don't be afraid to name them and warn people.

I've been twice. Will never go again. Said I wouldn't go again after the first time but went to the detail shop next door so popped in quickly to see if things had improved. And they didn't.

Between the owner trying to convince me that severely ick infested fish were totally safe to add to my tank, (this was after I phone and was told the fish had like 1 spot and were healthy), watching a fish get eaten alive with a staff member right beside me refusing to move the fish as he's kind of chuckling. Listening to the owner give dangerous bad advice about livestock to a new hobbyist 1 row down from me. Seeing obviously dead for days fish in the tanks. A poor sailfin tang that was blasted against the egg crate by a power head having its skin stripped off.

There are good stores, and healthy captive bred fish. The best we can do is give our business to the retailers that care.

[Moogled]

Like Coasting says, vote with your dollar and spread the word.

Hopefully any fish store that isn't worth its salt will eventually close down.

[Dash]

Thanks for being a sounding board. Like I said, I'm not squeamish/sappy but I felt crappy seeing those poor sad fish eyes. Those animals were so disposable.

[Jakegr]

There is a big welfare problem in our hobby that many do not like to acknowledge. There is significant mortality and pain/suffering due to the way the industry works with collection, shipping, at fish stores and finally at home (with inexperienced fish owners). I feel for you, seeing fish in that state isn't easy.

[Moogled]

Originally Posted by Dash

Thanks for being a sounding board. Like I said, I'm not squeamish/sappy but I felt crappy seeing those poor sad fish eyes. Those animals were so disposable.

For sure. I think many of us in the hobby are reactive to sub-par husbandry and poor conditions. These animals have been through a lot before they even reach our tanks.

I don't think it has anything to do with being sappy. I think we're just being compassionate hobbyists

I get bummed out when a hermit or snail dies. They're dime a dozen but in my eyes that doesn't mean they're disposable. My lil hermits are some of the cutest animals in my tank when they scale rocks or climb my gorgonians.

[Potatohead]

Originally Posted by Moogled

For sure. I think many of us in the hobby are reactive to sub-par husbandry and poor conditions. These animals have been through a lot before they even reach our tanks.

I don't think it has anything to do with being sappy. I think we're just being compassionate hobbyists

I get bummed out when a hermit or snail dies. They're dime a dozen but in my eyes that doesn't mean they're disposable. My lil hermits are some of the cutest animals in my tank when they scale rocks or climb my gorgonians.

A life is a life man, I don't think any of it should be wasted for no good reason.

[TimT]

As someone who's been in the industry for a long time there are a few things that need to be said in this thread.

There are good shipments and bad shipments and the fish/corals coming out of them should not be reflective on a store. If a fish shipment gets cold in transit the fish will typically breakdown with ick. This is normal.

There are stores that have separate quarantine systems for newly arrived fish. Their fish are more money. It all boils down to speak with your money but don't expect to get a Mercedes for a Hyundai price. No slight on Hyundai. Ever go to the big American fish stores with the marine biologists on staff, how nice and clean etc. Look at their prices and consider they're in USD which is almost 38% exchange and their costs of supply are cheaper.

18 years ago I was importing Certified Cyanide Free fish. The stores wouldn't buy them because their customers wouldn't pay the higher prices. Even though there was lots of talk about people being willing to pay for Certified Cyanide Free fish.

There's a saying "When you point a finger there are four more fingers pointing back at you". How many people have UV sterilizers on their systems? How many people have Chillers on their systems? How many people have back up generators for their systems? How many people have safety redundancy on their tanks heaters. It saddens me when I hear these stories of people losing their tanks due to easily preventable causes with a little money spent.

This site is not for bashing stores as all stores have their own issues... it's for helping people have the most fun in the hobby.

[dino]

Well said Tim is your personal tank set up yet? It's also a really hard industry to make a go at.

[Animal-Chin]

This is why its our job to take responsibility for our purchases. I've had issues with livestock from every local store. Velvet, acro flatworms, you name it I've purchased it and brought it home. There are issues with every local store in the area. I've seen entire shipments of really nice sps turn totally brown in one store due to poor lighting and I've seen another store trying to sell totally dead sps. I've seen large tanks with 50 baby hippo tangs die off in days because of the disease they brought in. I've seen $600 6 inch cross hatch triggerfish in a 20 gallon tank lying on the bottom. I've seen zoa colonies with more aptasia than zoa's on them.

There is a lot of bad merch in our local stores, if you find one crosses the line say something or stop shopping there. Most importantly be careful when your buying. If you REALLY REALLY want a Naso Tang and the store only has one skinny rough looking one, don't buy it, wait for a healthy shipment to come in. I feel bad for first time shoppers, its easy to make mistakes. My first coral was covered in green briopsis algae that at the time I thought was a bonus cause you get a coral with a plant for the same price...lol

Side note, the very first reef tank I bought was a biocube from a local store and while I was buying it they asked if I had researched before I came in. I said I saw some stuff online and they asked if I ever went to Can Reef. I said now and they said good because you can't believe anything you read on can reef, the people here are horrible...lol That LFS is now out of business but man did they hate Can Reef.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by TimT

As someone who's been in the industry for a long time there are a few things that need to be said in this thread.

There are good shipments and bad shipments and the fish/corals coming out of them should not be reflective on a store. If a fish shipment gets cold in transit the fish will typically breakdown with ick. This is normal.

There are stores that have separate quarantine systems for newly arrived fish. Their fish are more money. It all boils down to speak with your money but don't expect to get a Mercedes for a Hyundai price. No slight on Hyundai. Ever go to the big American fish stores with the marine biologists on staff, how nice and clean etc. Look at their prices and consider they're in USD which is almost 38% exchange and their costs of supply are cheaper.

18 years ago I was importing Certified Cyanide Free fish. The stores wouldn't buy them because their customers wouldn't pay the higher prices. Even though there was lots of talk about people being willing to pay for Certified Cyanide Free fish.

There's a saying "When you point a finger there are four more fingers pointing back at you". How many people have UV sterilizers on their systems? How many people have Chillers on their systems? How many people have back up generators for their systems? How many people have safety redundancy on their tanks heaters. It saddens me when I hear these stories of people losing their tanks due to easily preventable causes with a little money spent.

This site is not for bashing stores as all stores have their own issues... it's for helping people have the most fun in the hobby.

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!