Brad!

[DJ88]

Florida to by a bacterial in Vibrio strain

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well luckily I happened into a conversation with a Dr who studies Tridacnids.

Vibrio is present on all clams in nature.

I stated this in one of my first posts.

(and of distrubters losing up to 200 in one shot

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where? Been following most threads.. 200?

have seen on the island here that water temps can change by 20 degrees with the tide, whare we go camping the water is at about 78 degrees for about 2 hours after the tide comes in.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In an intertidal zone right? In a location on earth not even similar to a reef. On a reef a .5 degree change over MONTH is a big thing. It causes mass bleachings. 20 degrees on a reef would WIPE out the whole reef. If .5 degrees can cause a documented bleaching of a reef on a small island what would 2 degrees do? I'll dig up the paper I was reading a while ago about documented bleachings. Maybe then people will see that temperature swings are NOT normal on a reef.

Sprung and Delbeck are recommended the tetracycline family of antibiotics for this problem

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They are basing this on their experiences keeping and working with fish I am betting. Till a specialist in Tridacnids gets in on this with proof it is more than just stress causing one clam to go and then fouling a tank taking others with it, I won't jump on a bandwagon creted by a hobbyiest like myself. I almost did.. I really wanted to believe it was someone elses fault. Place blame. But when it comes down to it the blame has to be shared with everyone. including the owner. How is it that not all of those clams shipped to J&L have died? Why isn't there an even greater outcry than a few reefkeepers on a forum talking about some clams dying. The number of people that are actually in this hobby that are on that forum are miniscule in comparison to the numbers out there in this hobby. If it wasn't true how is it that so many people are constantly joining the boards that already have a tank up and running? Or have been in tho hobby for years? I met a family from the valley today that have been at this for years, the last time in another gentleman who has bee at this for almost ten years. Never been on a board. They never even heard of Canreef, Reefs.org or Reef Central. Because it is said on a forum doesn't mean it is gospel. Take it for what it is.. Someone typing some words to pass on what they have seen or heard. Take it with a grain of salt. Like you should my posts.. like all posts. I do now.. big time. Beginning to see some of the futility in going on a board. lol.

If it is a virus.. why didn't my other bivavles in my tank croak as well.. my oyster I have had for two years plus is still going fine as are the mussel and clam I have on other rocks in my tank?
Just looked at them.. poked them with a feeding stick.. they are still alive and well.

The answer is in racing pigeon care.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">really. Pigeon care is the answer.. lol. my giggle for the day. :D Sorry but that is hilarious.

My point of this all is, one guy tossing a random drug into his tank and having one clam survive isn't proof. Far from it. Was there any actual documented evidence there is a bacterium? Virus whatever? no. Did he test the clam prior to medicating? no. did he test the clam post medicating? no. Did he test the "infected" tank? no. Did he test the "clean" tank? no., did he test the deceased clams? no. Did he test his water prior to adding the new clams? no. That is a whole lot of no's. Too many for me to say that he has proof that this pigeon drug is the cure.

I found a place in Savannah, Georgia called Global Pigeon Supplies that sells enough to treat 400 to 800 gallons of saltwater (depending on what concentration they are using for the pigeons) for $22.95 + $7 shipping. Since I ordered today and had it sent to my work, I'll probably get it on Wednesday. "

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I bet they would burst out laughing if they knew what the sudden rush was on selling pigeon drugs was due to. A bunch of un-informed hobbyests diagnosing a problem themselves.

Steve Tyree and Charles Delbeek calling it a bacterial infection..

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Based on what? If I said I have a miracle cure for this would you call me to buy it? What testing have they done to verify that there is a virus??? Looking at a tank and making and assumption does one thing. It makes an A$$ out of U and ME

but I don't see how you can go with your heat theory with all the evadence

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What evidence????? There is no factual proof other than a bunch of clams dying. Nothing more.
Can't you see that?

All that has been shown is that clams are dying. When they go they exhibit exactly what Daniel Knop described as symptoms that were shown when somones clam died after a water change. Mucus, spewing clouds of white stuff(sperm), lack of responsiveness to light stimuli, not closing properly. Sound familiar? It sure did when I read it. Added to my conviction that this isn't a virus but is a bunch of deaths occuring at the same time. What has caused it? who knows.. but in reading how delicate clams are, how to propely handle them when taking them out of a bag or moving them etc etc. Heck I did the moving thing wrong. Many times. Did you know you should never lift a clam up out of the water with it's byssal glad down and it's opening facing up? I didn't. Causes damage to its internal organs due to the waer still contained inside it. That is why they squirt out the water. To releive the sudden pressure chage. Now that i think about it I did it about once a week in an effort to get the bryopsis that was growing on them off. And the derasa was not showing good extension or reaction to light as I should have checked when I bought it. So in effect I will believe that those were the causes for the demise of my clams in addition to the three to four degree temperature fluctuations I have. In a multi clam tank all it takes is for one clam to begin spewing sperm as it is dying and the others will follow suit. This will foul the water very quickly. Cause stress, and if the clams are already weak it may be enough of a trigger to kill them all. That one clam that was saved due to the drugs.. Was it not moved to a different tank? After all the other clams in the tank had reelased sperm? Could this have fouled hte water enough to cause sickness? Maybe? possibly? I'd lay money there personally.

As far as water carrying the "virus"... I was in J&L today.. looking at the clam tank. If there is any clams that would be succeptable to getting sick it would be very small ones. The weak and food requiring ones right? They have had about a half dozen in there for the last few weeks. Not every clam that came in that shipment died.... Heck there is two nice big derasas in there if I remeber right. They look WONDERFUL! I even contemplated buying one. Fully responsive to light and movement. Great color. Great mantle. But I won't until I can say my tank temperatures are stable.

It all comes down to optimal environment. I know now I didn't have one. I didn't like seeing temp swings before. After some of the things on bleaching in corals I have seen. I don't want any again.

I am done.. this is getting too funny..

pigeon medicine.. ROFL!

nite.

[ 27 July 2002, 22:27: Message edited by: DJ88 ]