Funny thing about the LFS and the "relinquiesh the CITES" comment

[paddyob]

I may have missed it, but has anyone considered the amount of frag ops out there, and how far back the original cites May be from? i sell the occasional frag, or trade them. do i need to provide this as well. there definately would be cost implications. i do agree it needs to be perhaps more readily available, but where would it stop. CITES Are applied for and granted or denied. are you willing to pay for it with every purchase. like previously mentioned, a purebred Dog, pay for papers.

[wickedfrags]

I point no fingers - I simply ask the questions. My 5 years of university and pending acceptance for my post graduate for my MHSc likely places me at or above comparable level to the CITES officers. Maybe not - lets be honest that is irrelevant. I can be disagreeable - but I wanted something from them

Well how many Tyree frags would you like to buy form me then???? I can provide the same info as others selling them in Canada - I got some skilz with the camera!

I can't help be think back to the day when some got worked by the big box stores - problem with algae? Buy this UV unit. Corals not go growing, buy this supplement. Why is livestock any different. I can give more than 10 different reasons your corals will not look the way they should...I don't care for those who may chose to take advantage of those who do not know any better.

Originally Posted by albert_dao

What the hell does that even mean? This is fluff. If I was a vendor and you came along to ask me how I went about with my due processes, I'd tell you where you could shove it. The fact that you were not able to obtain the processes could be a sum total of many factors including the questions you asked, your relationship with the Fish & Wildlife officers, how nice you were to the receptionist, the way the stars lined up and whatever else happened in tandem with your inquiry. It's hardly excusable that such as, you feel the need to bully it from another vendor on a public forum.

CITES is just a piece of paper required to import. Anyone with a business license can get one (I have three available - I paid for them, but I am not interested in using them). We are discussing re-exporting corals known to originate from the US - this requires a re-export permit which is MUCH more complex.

Originally Posted by paddyob

I may have missed it, but has anyone considered the amount of frag ops out there, and how far back the original cites May be from? i sell the occasional frag, or trade them. do i need to provide this as well. there definately would be cost implications. i do agree it needs to be perhaps more readily available, but where would it stop. CITES Are applied for and granted or denied. are you willing to pay for it with every purchase. like previously mentioned, a purebred Dog, pay for papers.

[paddyob]

You have three business licences or CITES? If the latter, my old employer needed one for every piece collected, every time. said would apply for 300, and have half approved. just not sure i understand fully. sorry if i dont follow completely, but i guess i would like to understand as this is a major issue it seems. basically the issue... asking for proof and dealer refusing?

[Skimmerking]

Ok when our LFS brings in corals they have to pay for cities. on each order. is there prices on the Cities list or is there just the type and how many corals that you are bringing in..

So whats with the freak out mode... Alot of people are confused on what you are trying to get across. when this happens may be its better to be more professional as a seller and buyer and move it to PM's ,but remember Pm's can get you in crap too if you go to deeply in the naughty word list..... trust me I have been there... I got caught...

[wickedfrags]

The CITES will list the quantity of each species of coral allowed to be imported at the time of the shipment, from a particular supplier.

I imagine many people are confused about the topic, and this is somewhat my fault. That being said - it was not my intent to discuss the specifics of my topic (importing Steve Tyree corals into Canada with proper paperwork for re-sale) in this thread. I hope to discuss this in the near future here at canreef.

Yes - lets be honest, in all likelihood, as with other boards, your PMs can be reviewed by staff, and by the staff in their private forum. Of course you should not be ashamed of what you are discussing privately - I do not fear any of my PM's being posted on the board...well I don't think so. Staff have an important job to do - what can you say....

Originally Posted by asmodeus

Ok when our LFS brings in corals they have to pay for cities. on each order. is there prices on the Cities list or is there just the type and how many corals that you are bringing in..

So whats with the freak out mode... Alot of people are confused on what you are trying to get across. when this happens may be its better to be more professional as a seller and buyer and move it to PM's ,but remember Pm's can get you in crap too if you go to deeply in the naughty word list..... trust me I have been there... I got caught...

[Doug]

Pm,s can be reviewed by the staff in their private forum?? Thats news to me then. I have never seen any, except ones that are sent to us.

[wickedfrags]

To clarify - I have 3 Indo CITES available (no of which I intend to use) - one for 30 pieces, one for 120 pieces one for 300 pieces (all approximate numbers, and yes one business license). A CITES permit includes the the number of pieces - you do not need 1000 CITES for a 1000 piece shipment. And hey a wholesaler "member" on this site refused my request for the CITES so I could re-export. The CITES contains the supplier information - which is a valuable piece of info worth of protecting.

Originally Posted by paddyob

You have three business licences or CITES? If the latter, my old employer needed one for every piece collected, every time. said would apply for 300, and have half approved. just not sure i understand fully. sorry if i dont follow completely, but i guess i would like to understand as this is a major issue it seems. basically the issue... asking for proof and dealer refusing?

FYI your opinion may may carry less resonance with readers than they did earlier in the the day - remember when you told everyone you didn't sell the credit I gave you after the frag I shipped you died - well the comments you posted publicly do not support it...check the thread (hate saying this but it it true - specially after you expressed interest in a real nice frag).

You bet I am jealous and I will happily be the second to bring these in!!! And I have not failed until I give up - and I have no reason to give up yet. All signs point to be it being possible - I will bring this info with me to the FWS office if required.

Originally Posted by Borderjumper

I agree..
I am wondering why this thread was created here on the vendor forums? I didnt think the vendor forums were meant for anything other than selling your wares. Why isnt this thread out on the main board?

Sorry dave, but IMO your coming across as jealous because someone was able to do something you couldnt.

[Borderjumper]

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

To clarify - I have 3 Indo CITES available (no of which I intend to use) - one for 30 pieces, one for 120 pieces one for 300 pieces (all approximate numbers, and yes one business license). A CITES permit includes the the number of pieces - you do not need 1000 CITES for a 1000 piece shipment. And hey a wholesaler "member" on this site refused my request for the CITES so I could re-export. The CITES contains the supplier information - which is a valuable piece of info worth of protecting.



FYI your opinion may may carry less resonance with readers than they did earlier in the the day - remember when you told everyone you didn't sell the credit I gave you after the frag I shipped you died - well the comments you posted publicly do not support it...check the thread (hate saying this but it it true - specially after you expressed interest in a real nice frag).
You bet I am jealous and I will happily be the second to bring these in!!! And I have not failed until I give up - and I have no reason to give up yet. All signs point to be it being possible - I will bring this info with me to the FWS office if required.

OMG LOL me bad!! I forgot I sold a $30 credit for $20.. I thought I gave it away.. thats how much it was worth to me.. ~shrugs~ The point was, and still is.. I didnt want your frickin credit.
jeeze and you think this makes my opinion carry less resonance? You are a bully arent you? LOL!! and dont be misleading your faithful readers yourself.. the frag you shipped me didnt die.. there was nothing in the bag to die.. it was nothing but a bare rock. Since were into digging back thru old posts.. Im going to have to see if I can find that picture of the bare rock...

Its bad when you have to dig this deep and go this low to try and make a point..

[Ron99]

Sorry Dave, i am just getting confused as to what the point of this discussion is now. If it is trying to determine the process to bring these corals into Canada then that's a great topic and I am interested. If it is to try to cast doubt on the honesty of another vendor then that is probably not so kosher.

FWIW, I seem to remember Ian mentioning that his supplier not only had import permits but also re-export permits which was unusual. He told me this many months ago; before he was selling any of the Tyree or ORA frags. So if all that is required is to get hold of a copy of the original CITES docs and to have a re-export permit then I would be comfortable in believing that he has brought them in legally and legitimately.

If showing you the import certificates is the only way to "prove" this but that would give away his trade secrets as to who his supplier is then I guess he has every right to withhold that. Especially from the competition. Would you do any differently if the roles were reversed?

In the end it comes down to this: 1) Do you have some trust for the vendor? and 2) Do the corals indeed look like what they are advertised to be? Personally I have the impression that Ian is a stand up guy and does business honestly. So I would have no problem buying from him and the corals certainly look like the genuine article to me. I have seen Ian's corals in person and they look very much like the photos on his site.

Honestly Dave, it seems like you are trying to cast doubt on another vendor's business without having any evidence that he has done something wrong or contrary to what he claims. I quite liked the product I received from you and would do business with you again based on that. I also am very pleased with the product I received from Ian and will do business with him again.

Please let's try to keep this a productive discussion. if the purpose is to make another vendor look bad then this topic should be closed ASAP.

[paddyob]

+1