new plumbing

[mark]

Originally Posted by Douglas

I'm going to have 4 Hydor Koralia's on an Ocean pulse Quadra. It's only a 72gal tank, so that should be enough. I'm still a little in the dark with the Herbie style overflow. The last posting was for a 400 gallon tank, i think. I want to keep it simple, but with as little noise as posible. Still kind'a looking for more direction. anything? anyone? Doug

A Herbie in principle is the same for a 400g or a 20g it's just a matter of size of bulkhead.

With the Hydor's doesn't sound like you'll be needing to rely too much on water through the sump to supply the flow for your display. Meaning either a Herbie using small bulkheads or a Durso.

What size of flow you planning from your sump?

[Douglas]

I've got a Hydor SELTZ L45, which provides 870gal/hr for my return, in my sump. It should be sufficiant. Along with my 4 powerheads, on the wave maker. I hope that going to be enough. All the piping is 1 inch, with the exception of the standpipe.(1 1/4)

[dsaundry]

Don't want to come off looking to dumb here, but looking at your plumbing I was wondering, on your return pipe to sump, does it have about a 3-4 inch drop before it hits your glass panel?? Wouldn't that create a lot of water splash?

[Douglas]

no, I'm missing about a foot of pipe there....sorry about that, ran out of pipe that day. And have since added a few pieces. Where that pipe enters the sump, I think that's a bio ball chamber. Do most people use them? Or, are there other options? Still learning about sumps, and how to install one quietly, and the most efficiently. Doug

[mark]

You'll be getting head loss (a calculator here) and can always valve back the return but in theory if not using the return pump for display flow, all you really need through the sump is what your skimmer is rated for.

A 1" bulkhead is max'd about 600 gph (work back from here) figure ~300gph through a 1" Durso you'll get some noise but if tuned, fairly quiet. I'm running about 1000 gph split between 2 2" Dursos, not silent but would say comparable to the noise one would get from those little table fountains you see around.

Ideally a Herbie is silent but there is often more noise from the overflow (water dropping over the overflow sides into the chamber) than from the drain itself so need to consider that or find a way to solve (foam block works). For a Herbie you need two drains. Could use one 1" as a primary and if not wanting to return the sump water over the back, do you have room for a third bulkhead (2 drains, 1 return)? The second drain since a emergency backup would be able to be smaller (3/4" if planning 300gph and allowing for primary to become completely blocked). If not wanting to drill a third hole or not wanting to return over the back your limited to a Durso (or similiar type) drain.

Also more differences between the Durso is there's air in the drain so can get gurgling or bubbles in the sump where as there's no air in a Herbie so no gurgling.

I'm happy and with my Dursos and not second guessing but if I was to build again after hearing (or not hearing) a 2-1.5" Herbies flowing 2000 gph, Herbies would be the route I would go.

Bio-balls, seems most just rely on LR in display (no balls in sump).

[dsaundry]

As for bio-balls I have heard they can create nitrate. I would think live rock would do the same and yet I have seen systems with bio-balls that are just fine and the same with live rock. Maybe some other members could share their own tales about this. I dont have a sump set up as yet but I am using a wet/dry filter with overflow and I dont use bio-balls or live rock in system. I have other filters set up and a aquaclear set up as a phosban reactor. Instead of bio-balls or live rock..maybe carbon or chemi-pure..or some other additive would work nicely...

[Douglas]

I've made a small change in the top plumbing of my new tank. I added a few more elbows to make is a little more cleaner looking. And a couple of valve to control flow. I've also increased my pump size to a mag 12. (from the Hydor L 45). I ran this plan past Dennis at Golds, and he told me it would work, but it's old style. Well,... what can you do. I'm still debating the Herbie style over flow. Can it be changed over once the tank is filled? Doug

[calkrog]

yes you can change over once the tank has been running, which is what i did, but i recommend you do it now, its much easier before you have livestock and have to worry about getting things running again in a hurry.

i have run plain old stand pipe (very noisy), durso (acceptable noise), and now herbie (quiet). there is no comparison. another benefit for me was with the herbie that there was a backup drain pipe. i had my durso get plugged twice with snails, and what i mess it makes on my berber carpet when the tank overflows. now i have snails thoughout my overflow box with no worries, and its quiet. i can actually sleep in the basement now when the wife kicks me out of the bedroom.

btw. my setup is very similar to yours with the overflow in the middle back of the tank. now i just run my returns up the back of the tank, and it looks like you have lots of room to do that.

[Douglas]

I think this will be the way we go. I've took into conciderations all the helpful advise i had recieved, and hopefull this should be quiet and safe. Thanks Doug

[Joe Reefer]

Do you have a gate valve on the drain line with the strainer on it? Its good to see you changed your arrangement. You will be much happier with it.