LED Craze

[ponokareefer]

I am wondering to all those that are jumping into the LED craze that is happening, if it is really going to be worth it? There are a few points that have been briefly brought up or not at all, but have me concerned.

1. Successful fixtures haven't been out very long, so haven't been tested by actual reefers over the long haul. Will they stand up?

2. Do bulbs actually last 50,000 hours and remain effective? Or will they be very ineffective after 25,000 hours? My MH's, PC's and T5's don't burn out after a year, but I change them for good reason anyway.

3. The cost for fixtures compared to MH's and T5's is way higher right now. I can buy a decent MH or T5 fixture for less than a DIY LED kit. Are you really going to save that much on energy bills and bulb replacements to make that up?

4. While you save on not changing bulbs every year, at $5/LED, when you actually replace bulbs, are you going to be even saving money on bulbs? I need about 80 to 100 LED's over my tank, and that is $400 to $500 for the LED bulbs. That is way more than what I spend right now on replacing my current MH's and PC's.

5. I don't own a unit, but are there instructions on how to remove and replace bulbs for a pre-made unit? Aren't they soldered in and together? Personally, I'm not messing with soldering a pre-made unit or I would have just gone with a DIY unit.

[ALang]

Good points.
Am tagging along to see what every says.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by ponokareefer

1. Successful fixtures haven't been out very long, so haven't been tested by actual reefers over the long haul. Will they stand up?

Sucessfull LED fixtures have been out for almost 7 years now.. don't know where you are getting that impression from.

Originally Posted by ponokareefer

2. Do bulbs actually last 50,000 hours and remain effective? Or will they be very ineffective after 25,000 hours? My MH's, PC's and T5's don't burn out after a year, but I change them for good reason anyway.

at 50,000 hrs the LEDs are said to have lost 15 to 25% of there intensity, with no color shift, so you can look at this as yes you can use them for the full rated life. will some burn out befor then.. probably, incorect use can burn them out pretty quick, but as long as you keep them cool then you should be fine.

Originally Posted by ponokareefer

3. The cost for fixtures compared to MH's and T5's is way higher right now. I can buy a decent MH or T5 fixture for less than a DIY LED kit. Are you really going to save that much on energy bills and bulb replacements to make that up?

I don't understand what you using for pricing.. to buy a new 2 bulb MH fixture or for me to build a DIY LED is about the same price and in some cases the LED is cheeper to build. I agree that pre-made systems are still expensive but are you adding the 10 years of bulb changes to the MH system that you wont have with the LED system... LEDs get a lot cheeper then.

Originally Posted by ponokareefer

5. I don't own a unit, but are there instructions on how to remove and replace bulbs for a pre-made unit? Aren't they soldered in and together? Personally, I'm not messing with soldering a pre-made unit or I would have just gone with a DIY unit.

why do you want to remove and replace bulbs?

I don't think your getting the idea behind LED set ups.

I don't know how big your tank is but to need 100 LEDs it must be pretty big. also what do you have in it?

so you can get a 96 LED kit for about 700 to 800 bucks, add say 150 for hanging stuff and heat sink well say 1000.00 finnished.

so now I got to J&Ls and buy a set up for a 48" long tank. two MH bulbs two T5's and a hanging kit. 1050.00 now that is the marinstar fixture with two giseman 13K bulbs, digital ballast, and two Uri super actinic t% bulbs. now add the bulb cost for 10 years at 240 per year total cost of this fixture is 3090.00 so three times the cost of the LED fixture. and this is not including the savings in power from both the fixture and the reduction on the load of chillers and such.

so after 10 years you buy a new LED fixture.. and good chance after 10 years you'll be buying a new MH fixture also. so worst case you save 2K.

Steve

[sphelps]

All those topics have been discussed and debated several times already so I'm not going to get into all those specifically again, as you can see already people respond aggressively with rhetorical questions rather than proving answers and comments from actual experience. I however will make a few points from my recent experience.

First off you won't notice any substantial power savings, while they do certainly use less power in comparison to some other options you won't be jumping for joy each month when you get your power bill. So if this your only reason forget it.

Next LEDs are not as bright as other options like MH, don't be fooled by PAR readings as LEDs do better as the spectrum is defined in the areas a PAR meter detects. While par may be what you're really after keep in mind you might be surprised at the overall light your tank puts out, this might actually be a benefit as many people find high light aquariums hard to look at, LEDs will fix this but to me the overall wow effect isn't there.

Not all corals will respond to LEDs that well, some seem to do very well but others show washed out color, almost like slight bleaching but not really, corals are still healthy but color is almost somewhat transparent. You may also find the overall color and effect to be somewhat artificial, hard to describe but if you compare side by side it's easy to see.

Controllable features are just gimmicks, while very intriguing you may find the features fairly useless after showing them off to all your friends. In addition the effects of such features result in a constantly changing light pattern which tends to go against stability rules, the effects in the hobby are still somewhat uncertain.

If you're into photography they aren't always ideal, I've found setting WB very difficult and contrast isn't as good as with MH.

Finally count on adding a par meter to your budget as who knows what these things actually put out now and a few years down the road. Also remember LED fixtures are like computers and what's available today will be obsolete after a year or so and of all lighting options LEDs will depreciate the most so resale will kill you.

While there are pros and cons to LEDs, I've found most people tend focus on the pros so I've focused more on the negatives just to show there are too sides.

[lastlight]

I've also been working on my new tank in the basement and umm... it is very cold in my fishroom (as I intended). I imagine my heaters would be on all the time if I was to go LED which could potentially destroy any energy savings.

[mike31154]

Don't have a LED set up for my tank yet, but have been keeping tabs on the breakneck pace of LED lighting development for several years & recently began the switch to LED bulbs for home lighting. I don't consider it a craze, the technology is maturing quickly and choices as to form, function, colour etc. are increasing daily. This is the advantage I look at when considering LEDs, the sheer flexibility of choice that's becoming available.

The CFLs (compact fluorescents) the government & energy savers have been pushing for a number of years now will soon themselves be pushed out of the market by emerging LED technology. Initially I was happy to switch from traditional filament bulbs to CFLs around the home to save a few bucks on energy, but found many of them did not last as long as advertised. Furthemore, each one contains traces of mercury & has a mini ballast built into the base. Hazardous waste each time you need to replace one. Pull one apart & you'll be amazed at what's crammed into the base, hard to imagine that they are so cheap now, considering the manufacturing complexity compared to traditional filament bulbs. Fluorescent tube fixtures are a bit better in this regard in that the ballast is separate so you're not throwing it out just because a bulb/tube burns out. To be fair, LEDs require a driver or power supply as well if you wish to run them on your AC house current since they are a DC voltage device. They should last a lot longer though, no mercury and with a little creative thinking, it is possible to run them straight from a DC voltage source such as a bank of batteries charged by a solar array, wind generator etc. No voltage conversion required other than to ensure you're using the correct level of DC voltage & current to drive the LEDs.

Look around & you'll see many of the big players slowly switching to LED technology. Automobile lighting, street lighting, factory lighting and so on. Eventually this will bring the price down to a reasonable level for the average consumer. Starting to see more high power LED E27 Edison base screw in type bulbs appearing on store shelves already. If one of these burns out, no soldering, a simple replacement like any other bulb. Although, If you pull one of these apart, you'll find the LED(s) is(are) replaceable with some soldering skills, so you don't really have to turf the whole thing into the garbage. The 'driver' built into the base of one of these can always be reused, unlike the CFL offerings. A year ago it was tough to find anything like that. The price is still up there though, discouraging people from spending their hard earned $$s on a single bulb. This will change as competition heats up & the various levels of gov't get on board with incentives to buy LED lighting vs the CFL 'craze' that's been going on for a few years now.

I recently bagged a few cool white MR16 type 4 x 1 watt bulbs along with a pile of sockets for a pretty good price on eBay. MR16 form factor is traditionally used with halogen bulbs as accent lighting but is a good candidate for aquarium lighting. Designed to run on 12 Volt DC, easily replaceable two pin plug in type bulb. Passive aluminum heat sink built into the bulb, optics included or can easily be removed/replaced by unscrewing the bezel. You could easily mix & match a bunch of these to dial in the power & colour you need for your particular system. If you have a variable power supply, you can dim them as well. All you need is one or more 12 volt DC wall worts of sufficient power to run the number of bulbs you're using.











If I remember correctly I paid just over $30 for 5 of these bulbs & about $25 for 50 wire sockets, shipping was free from China. Wouldn't take a lot of DIY effort to pick up an aluminum U-channel from Princess Auto, mount the wire sockets, get a few wall worts & voila, I have a pretty decent LED fixture for my 4' tank for $500. Dimmable if I wish & bulbs easily replaced. They might not be the latest Cree LEDs, but still very bright & hard to beat for the price. Still waiting for better selection & further price drop, but in the meantime I've mounted 3 of these over my kitchen sink. 12 watts of power for some fairly bright lights to do the dishes under.

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by lastlight

I've also been working on my new tank in the basement and umm... it is very cold in my fishroom (as I intended). I imagine my heaters would be on all the time if I was to go LED which could potentially destroy any energy savings.

Some insulation around the sump in the fishroom in the winter & a Poseidon return pump to help heat the water while it's pumping away.

[ponokareefer]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

Sucessfull LED fixtures have been out for almost 7 years now.. don't know where you are getting that impression from.

What fixtures are people still using that are 7 years old?



at 50,000 hrs the LEDs are said to have lost 15 to 25% of there intensity, with no color shift, so you can look at this as yes you can use them for the full rated life. will some burn out befor then.. probably, incorect use can burn them out pretty quick, but as long as you keep them cool then you should be fine.

Good to know

why do you want to remove and replace bulbs?

You just said they last 10 years. I guess you just throw the fixture out and buy a new one? What happens if a bulb burns out? Do you have to replace the whole fixture?


Steve

r

[ponokareefer]

Thanks for some of the input Sphelps. One point you brought up that I have an issue with as well is the fast evolution of LED's. If one breaks or burns out in 3 years, are they even going to make that type anymore? We are on XP-G's now, are we going to be on XP-T's in 3 years and no one will carry XP-E's in 3 years? All of this doesn't matter though if you can't even change out the bulbs on a fixture.

[Cal_stir]

i built my 72 led fixture, the dimming feature is awesome, the colour temp can be controlled, i went 50% wh, 35% royal blue and 15% blue but wish i had went 40% wh, 30% rb, and 30%bl, very little heat, been running about a year now with no issues, bought 2 extra of each led type in case of failure, about the same wattage as my 4 bulb t5 ho,but less heat, much brighter and it shimmers, all LPS and soft corals thriving(i have no sps), i'm sure it will last 10 years but i'm also sure that in a few years i will have upgraded to a much larger system and there will be huge advances in lighting technology and i will use it for a gium light or sell it or something.
i do love my led light.