G&D's Foray Into a 90G Tank (Take One)
 

For about 21 of our 24 years of marriage Deborah and I have maintained a freshwater tank and for several years a pond. We have often dreamed about taking a foray into the ocean of salt water. Until now our hobbies have taken us separate directions - Deborah loves crafts and sewing and George loves wood working. However, cutting cloth straight on a table saw is a real challenge and sawdust makes a mess of the dining room! As we begin this undertaking together, we are looking forward to the rewards, challenges, mistakes and successes.

First Purchase. We purchased a used 90 G tank with a canopy, corner overflow, stand, 600 gph pump, approx 30 G sump, 300 W heater, four Hydor Koralia powerheads, and a refractor.
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/.../90galtank.jpg

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...mp37x15x15.jpg
Where to put it? Once we purchased the tank we needed to decide where to put this thing! Living room, family room, dining room . . . ? The family room won – which displaces the freshwater tank . . . So what to do with that, move it to the dining room or sell it? We still have not decided. Another consideration was whether to re-carpet the family room right away, or be satisfied with the current carpet for the next many years. The final decision was to save the $2000 and live with the carpet as it is.

Refinishing the stand. The first challenge was to refinish the stand, which wasn't a challenge, it just took some time. Then, being a bit cautious, I decided to add an internal 2x4 frame to the manufactured stand. That being done I think the stand is ready to go.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...ley1/stand.jpg
Lighting up the tank. A next task was to think through the lighting. We had thought that the lights in the existing canopy would be sufficient – three T5s. As we had talked with a number of people we have realized that for corals to thrive at the bottom of the tank we will likely need better lighting. We are looking at a MH T5 combined unit or just make the jump to LED. At this point we are leaning towards the LED.

Rocks. Another question was rocks. We are leaning towards purchasing Marco base rock and seeding it with live rock. This will obviously take longer to get the tank fully operational, but it will save a few $$.

We are hoping that sometime in the next few weeks we will have the time to be able to set the tank in place, get some rocks and start the process.

Any comments or suggestions along the way are welcome. Thanks to Subman for the tutorial on getting pictures into this!

Looks great George! That's a beautiful looking setup!

I recommend Led's and the mix of live and marco rock.

- I was hesitant on going with led's but now I can't believe it took me this long. The power and new bulb savings make up for the price difference. (That being said the mh t5 combos can be found used for dirt cheap right now)

- As for rock I love the look of true love rock and the joy of the hitchhikers (even the bad ones were super cool in the beginning)...but the marco rock is a significant savings for you and mother nature. There is a major impact on the ocean by harvesting live rock.

Its a great hobby I hope you both enjoy for many years!

Well congrats on the tke over. Salt is way more fun.
LEDs are way better path to take.
I noticed you haven't said anything about filters?
There is a lot out there from mangroves to skimmers to algae scrubbers.
all I can say is make sure you have a good air supply to your tank.
The top two mistakes I see in beginners tanks is flow and air.
The rest you'll learn as you go.
Looking forward to see your progess.

Welcome Deborah and George. You are in for a huge change in thinking.
Last fall I decided to rid myself of 180g of combined freshwater headaches and I am almost ready to put water in my new SW tank ( I am taking a lot longer than most to gear up ). I felt SW would be more rewarding for the work I was performing.

So, good on ya'
What a unique looking tank/stand. Very nice. I haven't seen the white trim before.
I know not enough about SW yet, but will put my 2 cents in right now ....
And I mean it, so, if you don't mind some advice from a rookie ....

Get out of MH lights as I feel they are leaving the market and will cost you money in the long-run.
T5s are a huge improvement over T8s/PCs and rival MHs.
LEDs are up to you. They are relatively new so research lots as there are sooooo many options.
T5s will get you by for now, to save you initial start-up costs, and if you buy the right fixture, you may even keep it.
I have a Powermodule 8 x 54 watt T5 on a 75g and it will be all I need ... ever. I'd like to see where a 10 bulb makes a difference.
So, for you, you'll need lots of light. But you don't need to buy it all right now.
Find yourself a fixture that can change and grow with your tank.
Something that gives you the ability to control more than the standard "2 on" "6 on" crap out there.
I fell in love with Hamilton Lighting. Then I found my fixture on here ( Canreef ) and modified it. I bought all the wiring needed and now it's fully controllable ( well, I can control all 4 pairs. )

Rock is your choice. I opted for the cheap dry rock route for the majority of my stock, and it will probably take a year for it to mature.
If you buy mostly base rock like me, count on about a year before you can fully stock your tank safely.
If you get a mix of 50/50 you stand a better chance of stocking your tank much sooner after startup. This is where so many tanks thrive or fail. If you don't have enough live rock to support your critters, you will suffer failures that may make you want to leave the hobby. Make your choice RIGHT NOW.
Do you want to;

1- Fully stock your tank right now, and see all the fish in it you envisioned
Or do you want to;

2 - take your time and watch it mature as you add your critters, both fish and corals

If your choice is 2, you are on the right track.
Nothing good ever happens fast in a SW Tank

You obviously have a friend here that will help you, but I want you to hear it from another.

Take your time, add things slowly, ie;
Not like FW. One fish every 2-4 weeks is all your tank can handle, and that's if your rock is stable.
And if you can be more patient, 2-4 weeks between fish is too soon.
Use a Quarantine Tank if you have one left over and wait 4-8 weeks before adding the new fish to your Display Tank.

Big change, isn't it?

It'll be worth it ... just be patient.

Oh, lastly, you can glean a whole lot of good info from our resident Writer here

Hope you read all that
Happy Reefing :mrgreen:

Part II
Stop worrying about pH like we did with our FW tanks
And re-learn about Alk, it's relationship with Ca and so on.
I learned so much from here;

This is the link to all Mindy's writings
Myka's taking up bandwidth

But I specifically learned what I needed from here;
Myka's Guide .....

I hope I didn't frustrate you in any way.
This is a wonderful hobby.

This community is invaluable.
Get started and everyone will help you if you need it

DO IT :mrgreen:

Thanks for the question re: filtration. This is an area that I have not done much research on yet other than protine skimmers. As of yesterday I thought I had an almost new skimmer from a friend who shut down his system a year ago. Unfortunatly, after a long search through his shed (during Calgary's snow storm) he was unable to find it and came to the conclusion tha he must have sold it. One of my next tasks - on the growing "to do list" is to research filtration.

I would suggest keep your eyes open on canreef, take your time and buy the best skimmer you can afford. There is no rush as the rocks will take time to seed and they don't need a skimmer to do so.

Thats a lie!!


Tank crashes happen fast everytime :p

Weekend Progress
 

We want to thank all those with helpful suggestions on our project. We would appreciate it if you keep them coming.

Deborah and I were able to make a bit of progress on the tank project over the weekend. We moved the old freshwater tank (servicing only goldfish at present - they are our "pond fish") out of the family room and into the living room to make space for the reef tank. We then moved the stand into the family room and got that set up - it looks good - but I'll get back to that later. . .

We also took the tank into the shop to have a hole drilled for an emergency overflow. We appreciated the suggestion to install a second overflow. As soon as the suggestion was made, we were very uncomfortable with no emergency overflow. This afternoon we picked up the tank - it all looks very good.

Back to the stand. . . Though the stand looks great, I have been increasingly uncomfortable with the manufactured stand that we have. We took the time to refinish it and to build an internal frame to make it stronger, but the sides, top and doors are MDF. Even though they are finshed very well I am worried about what their condition will be in several years. So . . . Deborah and I made the decision this afternoon to scrap the stand (we might acutally use it for a TV stand in the basement!) and build one from scratch. Woodworking is my first hobby and in particular, making furniture. My schedule will not allow me to do much on it this coming weekend, but hopefully by the first weekend in May, I will be able to get a lot of it done. If anyone has suggestions for the construction of stands, please pass them on.

Until that is done, we will just enjoy the tank as it is. :wink: http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...stuffytank.jpg
My son took a picture and posted on Facebook that I had run out of money and had to settle for a borrowed stuffy from my younger son. Thanks kid!

Any comments and suggestions are welcome.

You know it's really too soon to be adding a fish. you haven't even got your initial ammonia spike yet. :mrgreen: At least he'll be easy on the wallet!

Thanks for the last pic. BF and I had a good laugh over here!

Yes I realized that we were taking a bit of a chance but we were eager to make the tank look good. As I've been watching him tonight he seems to be a bit lifeless - should I be concerned?

Nah That's normal for the super false Perc. They are completely lifeless but beautiful and live forever!

Working Slowly
 

Not much has happened since our last post a few weeks ago. I haven't had much time to work on the new tank stand, but it is slowly coming. I really hope that by next weekend we will be able to finish and paint the stand. What we have done is to spend time talking to people, and learning more. Thanks especiually to Dave and Scott for your suggestions and input.

We have decided on using LED lighting - still not sure which one. We will use Marco rock and seed it with live rock - trying to think through how much of each to get. We have not decided which skimmer we will buy, but we will go with a mid priced one.

In the meantime our lone fish is looking quite content and appears to be doing well (see above picture).

George

Advice needed - live rock
 

We are finally making some progress! I was able to spend a few hours today on the stand and the construction is finished - pictures coming tomorrow. Tomorrow I will do a final sanding and start the painting. We are also planning on going shopping - it's time to spend some money!

We will get a RO/DI unit and hope that my plumber (brother-in-law) can help me on Sat to get it hooked up. We might also buy some rock. We are going to go with Marco rock. For a 90 G tank, how much Marco rock should we get, and how much live rock?

Thanks

Good to hear you're gettin' somewhere
Rock is a personal preference, based on what you want your tank to look like.
1-2lbs/g is the normal recommendation
1lb/g is heavy if you want a light 'scape and have a light bio-load, and some say 2lbs/g is needed for a full-blown reef with lots and lots of SPS etc
You can mix live and base, but the more base you use, the more quarters of the year you will wait for it to fully seed

Forgot to add ...
If you'd like to drink the RO water, plumb your system so you can fill your jug before the DI filter as drinking DI is a no-no ...

Thanks - I appreciate knowing that. We were thinking about using the water for my wifes repitiles - this is good to know.

Another day of progress!

I was able to spend a fair bit of time today on the tank project. The stand will be completed by late tonight with three coats of paint. The frame has a 2x4 frame, 3/4" fir plywood for the top, bottow and sides, and baltic birch 5/8" ply for the doors. The middle panel on the front is help in place with magnets to allow full access to the sump.

We also went shopping and purchased a Vertex Puratek 100 Ro?DI. I hope to be able to get it installed tomorrow, but that will depend on whether my brother in law (plumber) can help with the install.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1336182523

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1336182523

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1336182523

Beautiful looking stand George!

Hooking up the ro/di is a peice of cake. Just a simple piercing saddle valve and some 1/4" hose. The only problem is if your house is new and no copper pipe to pierce, I had to put mine in the basement to t off the hot water tanks copper inlet.

Thanks for the compliment re: the stand. I went out this morning to inpsect the pain and can now declare it complete! (except for painting side B of the doors - that will be complete later today.

We are going to put the RO/DI in the laundry room at a place where there used to be an old sink. The line will be run off the old water supply - we are getting an adaptor and valve to go from the orignal line to the 1/4". The drain will go directly into the exsiting drain.

Today I am hoping to pick up a few items to begin replumbing the tank. The previous work on this used tank was really ugly.

The challenge that we are now facing is that Deborah is suggesting that we switch around the family room and living room - which means moving (again) the freshwater tank, moving a piano :cry: and all the other furniture.

I'm voting for keeping things as they are!:biggrin:

Completed Stand
 

Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks I have finally completed the stand have it in the house. The original stand was a manufactured stand that was made of MDF - I was a bit nervous, so took on task of building a new stand. The new stand is 10" taller and another 1 1/2" deeper to give more room for equipment. The middle panel is held in place with magnets and can be removed for full access.
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1336790241

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1336790241

This afternoon I was able to install a GFCI for the electrical. I am hoping that tomorrow I will be able to start the plumbing - but I'm not counting on making progress :sad:

It's very nice. Good job guys!

Glad to see Nemo is still kickin' :mrgreen:.

Yes, Nemo is doing just fine - as you will have noticed I decided to add some dry rock for the dry fish!

Stand looks great! love the removable middle section. Whats supporting the span if that middle section is just for looks?

Thank to both Reefgirl189 and Subman for the compliments on the stand.

Regarding what is supporting the span since the front panel is just for looks - the upper rail is in essence a 2x4 header. At a 4' span it has adequate strength to support the load and the load is transfered to the legs which the rail sits on top of. I did most of the planning in advance (my first hobby is furniture making). That being said I wasn't convinced I was right until I was forwarded the following link. It is a very close design to what I had come up with. Just to be safe I adjusted my plans and went with the recommended plan in the link.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169964

Hi again - further to your question - which, by the way, is a great question. Because of the design of the legs, which is 2 2x4s which form an "L" shape, the span is 38" rather than 48". That puts much less stress on the upper rail.
Thanks for the question.

A Bit of Progress
 

Despite it being spring and the need to get lawn work done, we have been able to get a little bit done on the tank. On the weeked we did some shopping and picked up an Elos ATO, two Radions, and a RLSS R8-u skimmer http://www.rlss.ca/#!protein-skimmer/vstc2=r8-u http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...by-h2o-systems Thanks Dave for your help with all this.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1337141227

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http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1337141239

I have also been working on the sump. The system we purchased was a used one and the original design was for the drain from the tank to splash onto the hloder for the filter socks. Thinking that this wasn't a great idea I decided to add a baffle and extend the drain pipe so that the water will drain directly into the water, flow up and then through the filter socks. This makes the main compartment a few inches smaller but still large enough to hold the necessary equipment.
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...ley1/sump2.jpg
We have started getting serious about thinking through the aquascaping and will be having a few conversations with some local people to get tips and ideas. We are also trying to think through what we want for livestock and are a bit overwhelmed yet learning about different fish, LPS, SPS etc.

The next task will be to finish gathering the needed material for plumbing and get serious about doing that. I hope that will take place in the next week.

So, on with the yard work for today!

Nice work on the sump. That is personally my favorite type of mechanical filtration setup. Only difference is I prefer a filter floss as apposed to filter socks....maybe becuase i'm too lazy to constantly change the socks out lol.

That is a very clean and sharp looking tank and stand, it will be gorgeous once complete. The equipment list is also looking like most of our wish lists. :)

Things will come together quickly and will be well worth all the planning that had evidently been done. Can't wait to see it!

Had a closer look again at the tank/stand, was that on Kijiji a while ago? I thought it looked nice then, now it's in for an upgrade.

Thanks for the compliments re: the sump. I was a bit nervous because I had never done something like this before, and I am pleased with the outcome. Hopefully it will work as good in practise as it does in my theory! LOL

Yes, this tank was on Kijiji a while back. Very sharp eyes! The upgrades are the new (almost identical) stand (10" taller and no MDF!) and we are now looking at changing the canopy. We need space to get the lights about 8" or so above the water line. One option is to build a new one, the second option is to have a professional build a 10" spacer between the tank and canopy. We know someone who owns a sign company and he certainly has the ability to make it look great. The question will be for how much $$$.

Thanks for the compliments - we are sure looking forward to actually getting the tank wet!

I use the same first stages in my sump. A small raw water chamber that flows over to a sock tray. It works great, very quiet and forgiving. 100% of the water goes through the socks when they are new and simply flows over them once dirty, same water levels are maintained.

http://img.tapatalk.com/464b85f3-c751-b444.jpg

Thanks for the pic of your sump and comments - this is how I hoped it would work.

thats a sweet looking tank and stand!.....good to meet yous two tonight:biggrin:

It's coming along GREAT! good work George

Thanks - Doug, it was good to meet you last night. Really appreciate the "tank tour" and all the information.

Close to getting wet!
 

Deborah and I have spent the past weeks trying to get parts for the plumbing, trying to get time to do the plumbing and trying to just live life. In other words - this has taken a lot longer than I thought it would.:sad: In the past few weeks we did manage to get the sump into place and make some aluminum brackets to mount a florescent light that I picked up used.

However . . . I think that we have completed the plumbing - at least "take one". I assembled the last of the fittings and glued everything up tonight. Below are pictures of the sump with the plumbing in place.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/.../plumbing1.jpg

We were somewhat limited by the original design of the tank (it was a used tank). We have a 1 1/2" main drain using a gate valve to adjust the flow. There was no emergancy drain so we added a 1" drain but had to plumb that out the side of the overflow and on down. Our return line is a 3/4" line.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/.../plumbing2.jpg

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/.../plumbing3.jpg

We have left room to the right of the return line to mount carbon and GFO reactors to the side of the stand.

Tomorrow we will do a test with fresh water and if all goes well we will get serious about doing the aquascaping. If it doesn't go well - we will be doing "plumbing - take 2". Hopefully (and maybe I'm dreaming or delusional :razz:) we will fill it with salty water by the end of next weekend.

We have also been working on our RO/DI station. It is set up in furnace room but we are not finished and although we can produce water, there are lines running all over the place - so until I get a few more fittings to make it look neater - no pictures!

I have failed as a plumber!
 

If this had been a final exam for plumbing school, I'd be on the street looking for a new career! On Sat we put water in the tank to test the lines and I found four leaks :redface:. One is a bulkhead - I think that is simple enough to fix. The other three are joints. I'm not sure if I didn't use enough primer, or enough glue or didn't hold the joints long enough - I think it might have been the third. Regardless, it is now time to put preassure on my plumber brother in law and see if he can come do it for me. In the meantime we will continue to admire our empty tank.:biggrin:

We also had some input regarding the amount of flow through our sump. To get more information we posted a thread on the reef forum and have come to the conclusion that at the minimum we will get a new pump. Please take a look at that thread and if you have any additional thoughts it will be helpful. Thanks.

Time to Add Water!
 

After three weeks of battling leaks and my lack of plumbing ability, the tank finally holds water! :mrgreen: I had to call in the professional (my brother-in-law plumber instructor) and we are ready to proceed to the next step.

Nemo has finally gotten wet!
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...dley1/Nemo.jpg

We began to plan the aquascaping today and hopefully will get the dry rock into the tank tomorrow. This shows our first thoughts on how we might do the aquascaping. We have about 70 lbs of dry rock and will add some live rock to that.
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...uascaping2.jpg

We discovered a bit of a problem while we were testing for leaks. The silicone job on the overflow was terrible. :sad: Part of it looked terrible and the other side acted more like a sieve than a seal. So while we were trying to get the plumbing solved we cut out the overflow, cleaned everything and today I put it back in place. For some reason there had been slits cut in the overflow along one side from top to bottom. The previous owner sealed it, but it looked ugly - here is the before and after. It is now resealed and a bit nicer.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...overflow-1.jpg

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/.../overflow2.jpg

If all goes well we will have the dry rock into the tank by tomorrow and then start adding water!