which ro unit to get?

[smokinreefer]

hey guys, i am looking into getting a RO unit.

which one do you guys use?

which one do you recommend?

how often do you need to replace cartridges?

how much does it cost, initially and to maintain?

thanks for any info.

[canadawest]

OK, I've got the ultimate answer for you!

Get a Reefpure RO/DI unit. You may have seen the discussion on the reefs.org and Reef Central boards. I have wanted an RO/DI unit for a while but the cost always seemed excessive. I was skeptical of all the "praise" on the boards, but I contacted Dave at Reefpure via email and asked him a bunch of questions, then actually called him. He gave me an unbelievable deal on a 100gpd 4-stage RO/DI unit, with all necessary fittings and a TDS meter.

I got the unit on Tuesday, and it's a top quality piece. Great construction, quality parts, and works as advertised. I've already processed 30 gallons with it and done a water change on both my tanks.

Sure beats driving to Safeway, filling two 5 gallons bottles for $2.99 each, carrying them around, and only getting RO water to boot!

I'm also going to approach J&L Aquatics and see if they are interested in being a Canadian distributor for Reefpure, so you might be able to get them from J&L as well? They are priced about half of the competitors, and Dave's customer service is great.

[Reefmaster]

andrew
lets hear the numbers. whats the unit cost to buy, ship, how long etc. also what's the contact for this guy. and from others, how well are these units rated. i have only being considering spectrapure because we can get them easily, but if there is another option...
smokingreefman, we are going to buy a ro/di unit as well. may be some cost savings and further discounts if they can sell a couple in one go. shane

[smokinreefer]

hey andrew,
would you mind sharing some #s with us. i really dont know what the going price is, or what is considered a good deal.

shane, yeah, if we went a MO route, we could save alot on shipping if we pooled orders i'd imagine.

[reefburnaby]

Hello,

I just use DI -- the tap water purifier kind. Works well around here. I can get 150 to 300 gals of clean water per cartriage. New cartriage cost $30...but you can DIY recharge it for $5.

- Victor.

[FlameAngel]

Yea I know Andrew,
The Kent unit isn't a bargain, but at the time I didn't even KNOW of reefpure, nor do I have a mailing box in Blaine. images/smiles/icon_sad.gif

All I'm am saying, is that although the Kent model is more expensive it still does the job properly and as good as the reef pure... LOL

FlameAngel
P/S It's actually very very nice to know that someone HAS a mailing address in Blaine (wink, wink, for future US purchases) images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Reefmaster]

damn, do we WANT to know why you have a mailbox in blaine?? lol, just kidding around. shane

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Reefmaster ]

[canadawest]

Hey Flame, nothing personal intended. I wasn't knocking the Kent unit, it's one of the best you can buy. It was just for comparison purposes.

And you're right, there wasn't much competition out there before, and Kent was pretty much the only quality choice in the reefkeeping industry. It's nice though now to see more competition, better products and lower prices!

As for the mailing address in Blaine, well that has served me well for more than 10 years. From performance parts for my cars, to eBay purchases, to my latest cash drain, reefkeeping, it is great for MO stuff from the US. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Shadetree]

It looks like the Reef Pure is a pretty good deal, I picked up a Kent 50 GPD Maxxima (4 stage) for $210 cdn from reefs.org classifieds. Be wary of the smokin deal and outstanding customer service from an unestablished company. Just look at Aqua FX. You CANNOT sell a high quality product with outstanding customer service and simply undercut the competition for long. Just ask anybody caught in the whole mess when Brian (read customer service) left Aqua FX, it took a while to pick up the slack left behind. On a brighter note, if you can get the deal that Andrew got, almost all of the replacement cartridges are inter changeable between the different brands.

Scott

[canadawest]

OK here are the numbers and contact information.

Reefpure Website (http://www.aquariumwaterfilter.com)

Email addresses and phone numbers to contact Dave are available on the website.

I purchased a Tornado 4-Stage RO/DI 100gpd unit. Dave included a handheld TDS meter, all the fitings and plumbing parts I could possibly need, and included shipping to my postal address in Blaine, WA.

Now I promised Dave that I wouldn't tell people what I paid for the unit, as it was a special deal that he and I worked out over the phone, but I will say that it was much less than the retail price on the website.

If you call him directly, I'm sure he would extend the savings to you as well. He's starting a new company and needs the sales right now. He's got the products all ready, now he's just trying to get them into homes and get some exposure. That's why so many people are posting positive things about the products lately, they are trying to return the favor for the great deals they have been getting.

Marine Ecosystems has the ReefPure units on sale right now. 4-Stage RO/DI units (like the one I got) are $134.25 for a 50gpd, $149.25 for the 100gpd, and $194.25 for the 200gpd. (All prices are in US$)

But call Dave directly, and he will probably throw in a TDS meter and free shipping.

Anyone interested in the units is welcome to come by my place anytime and check it out in person.

[FlameAngel]

I bought a Kent Unit from JL cuz at the time that was the only that was available. But, on the good side, I am very happy with it.

For Vancouver City water one of the three stage units is good enuf.

FlameAngel

[canadawest]

PS... For reference:

ReefPure
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>ReefPure Tornado 4-Stage RO/DI 100GPD with a TDS meter - $150US shipping included ($240CDN) (includes flush-kit standard and all necessary installation hardware for under-sink, garden hose and faucet adapters)
[/list]

Kent
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Kent Maxxima 4-Stage RO/DI 50GPD without TDS meter - $330CDN @ J&L Aquatics (does not include flush-kit [extra $21.95CDN], and only comes with garden hose adapter)
[/list]

Seems to me that I saved over $100CDN (plus taxes), got a 100GPD vs the Kent 50GPD, a TDS meter, standard flush kit, and more installation options. Was a no-brainer decision for me.

Also replacement cartridges:

ReefPure
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>1 Micron Sediment Filter - $4.99US
<LI>1 Micron Carbon Block Filter - $9.99US
<LI>DI Mixed Bed Replacement - $19.99US
<LI>Replacement RO Membrane 100GPD - $59.99US
[/list]

Kent
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>1 Micron Sediment Filter - $8.95CDN
<LI>Carbon Replacement Cartridge - $23.95CDN
<LI>DI Replacement Cartridge - $44.95CDN
<LI>Replacement RO Membrane 50GPD - $129.95CDN
[/list]

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: canadawest ]

[Bryan]

My two cents worth.

I would question the usefullness of a RO in the GVRD. I purchase one years ago and before I did I contacted a lab and they stated that Vancouver water is very soft and relatively free of contaminents and dissolved minerals, they recommended a DI filter instead. During the spring and fall there is sometimes a peak in the amount of silica in the water. I decided to buy a Spectrapure RO anyways. there was little difference in quality of the output vs the input according to the TDS meter supplied. I have switched to a TWP and I get hundreds of gallons per cartridge.

-=Bryan=-]

[canadawest]

I find my tap water is VERY high in phosphates, and of course there is plenty of chlorine as well in our municipal water, especially late in the summer and winter when resevoirs are lower.

I just figured I would save money in the long run, rather than lugging two 5 gallon jugs to Safeway once a week for RO water @ $2.99 a jug.

[Bryan]

Yes, but you could save even more money by buying Tap Water Purifier (DI filter) and recharging the resins yourselves.

-=Bryan=-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canadawest:

I just figured I would save money in the long run, rather than lugging two 5 gallon jugs to Safeway once a week for RO water @ $2.99 a jug.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[christyf5]

I'm interested to hear more about this DIY recharging of the Tap Water Purifier resins. I have one myself and thought I needed to go out and get a refill for $30. Since they are considerably more than that here on the island, how exactly does one recharge it and how often can this be done??

Christy images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[smokinreefer]

just though ti'd pop in, just so you guys know that i am following my own thread images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

FWIW i am using the TWP right now and have been for years. but i am currently using about 2 gallons a day for top off and the TWP is a bit of a hassle to use.

so i just want to look at my options.

but yeah, has anyone here recharged their cartridges? i sure would like to know how.
thanks

[canadawest]

BTW, what is the output of the TWP?

[Troy F]

Dale uses TWP and recharges them. The instructions are posted on reefs.org in the library.

[Bryan]

Can be done hundreds of times. Instructions here
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/g_deutschmann_instruct.html

and this is the recipe for the chemicals.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/g_deutschmann_chem.html

CAUTION the chemicals can be dangerous as they are strong acids and bases. Muriatic acid can be found in any hardware store, lye at the local Safeway.

=-Bryan=-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by christyf5:
I'm interested to hear more about this DIY recharging of the Tap Water Purifier resins.

Christy images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Aquattro]

Just a note on the instructions for mixing the acid. They state that you should add the water to the acid....this is wrong. Mixing acid and water produces an exothermic (heat producing) reaction and can cause splashing. Always add acid slowly to water while stirring. And don't breath the fumes.

[canadawest]

Hmmm, lets see here...

I can spend $25 every 6 months or so for replacement sediment and carbon canisters and take 2 minutes to remove the old and screw the new in, or....

I can spend $10 on replacement chemicals for a TWP, spend 20 minutes playing with (and also disposing of) potentially dangerous chemicals that caution the following:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> THE ACTIVE INGREDIENTS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE HARMFUL.
BOTH CHEMICALS CAUSES SEVERE BURNS TO EYES AND SKIN ON CONTACT. VAPOR
HARMFUL MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED.
MAY CAUSE BLINDNESS IF SPLASHED IN EYES.
USE ONLY WITH ADEQUATE VENTILATION. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think so! I think I'll take the safe and easy route for $15 more.

[Troy F]

Ah c'mon Andrew, live a little images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif .

[reefburnaby]

Hello All,

The flow rate that I use is about 1 gallon per hour. That is significantly below the rated flow (which is 10 gals per hour), but the water quality is a little bit better with slower flow rates. I just plug in the TWP when I get home from work and turn it off before I go to bed. Also, you can use warm water for DI.

As for recharging....strong bases and acids are used to recharge the TWP. When bases and acids are mixed together (in correct proportions), they cancel each other and form a neutral (pH=7) solution.

Note that eventually you will need to buy another TWP cartridge because you always loose a bit of resin (those green/yellow/purple pebbles in the TWP) while recharging or during normal use.

For those interested in a even less expensive water conditioning....I have heard of some reefers using regular tap water as top off water. This only works if you have really clean water or if you drip your top off with kalk. Kalk is suppose to precipitate phosphates and minerals out of the water.

- Victor.

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[DJ88]

Victor,

I did that with the Kalk.. It took a while but I did see a decrease in the algae I had in my old 90. So it will pull the phosphates out or help to.

Now tho I prefer my RO/DI. Tastes so damn good too.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[smokinreefer]

hey darren,
whats the maintenance like on your RO? how often to replace cartridges and how much $$?
thnx

[canadawest]

I wont speak for Darren, but according to the manufacturer of my RO/DI unit they recommend changing the sediment and carbon pre-filters every 6 months (about $20 for both) which should allow the RO membrane to function well for about 2 years (about $75 for a replacement)

If you also have the DI cartridge, it is supposed to process 400-500 gallons before needing replacing (about $30)

Of course this all depends on how poor or good your tap water is to begin with. If it is high in TDS (total disolved solids) your pre-filters will exhaust a bit sooner, if your tap water is already low in TDS then your filters will all last that much longer.

Best to own a TDS meter to check the TDS levels of both the processed effluent as well as the waste water from the RO membrane. This will tell you exactly when it's time to replace the cartridges.

[DJ88]

Mine is recommended to change every twelve months..

I didn't buy one made for aquarium useage.. I wanted it to be one certified for human consumption as well.. Went with one from Andrew Sheret n sons in Victoria. Didn't pay as much as I would have for the Kent but am happier with it..

[Reefmaster]

whoooaaaa, darren. you didn't pay AS MUCH? was it cheaper at andrew sherret? is it as good as any of the others? can you provide some more info on your ro/di. thanks.

[DJ88]

It is a 24 GPD Aqua Flo. RO/DI.. And will be converting it to a 35GPD when I change the cartridges. easily done.. at least once I get the directions it will be.. lol Five stage. Human consumption RO/DI.. man it tastes sooo nice.. I'll look up the model number..

I paid $400 for it all told.. There abouts..

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[Reefmaster]

excellent. i'll give em a call in the am and see what they've got. thanks for the tip. shane

[DJ88]

You will have to order the DI unit separate.. Call the Sheret out in Langford.. they know what it is.. They don't buy the RO with a DI.

When I get back from class today I'll get the part numbers if they are readily available in the piles of paper.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[StirCrazy]

Hi, sorry for jumping on this one kinda late, but I had a couple questions.
first off how do you know when you need to go to a RO over a DI system? http://www.crd.bc.ca/water/wqData.htm this is a link to the Victoria water quality report and by looking at it I would have thought our water was good enuf for no filtration, but I have been informed otherwise.
Also by a DI unit do you mean thoes under cabnet cartrage filters from home deopt? or are they a special product?
another thing ... some one said something that struck me funny.. something about (you can use hot water with DI also) well I am sure it would work but using hot water you are risking copper contamanation. in the hot water heater water sits untill it is needed, while it sites it adsorbs minerals and such from inside the tank .. while cold water also can pick up contamanants you can run your cold water for 5 min to flush out the lines. I would think that your cartrage would last longer if you are using cold water as it won't have as much metals to remove. then again who knows, just my 2 cents

Steve

[DJ88]

Hi Steve,

As a former Vic resident I'll try..

I used to just use tap water in my tanks and had problems with Cyano and hair algae. Lots.. The major worries that tap water puts into your tank is chlorine and other addatives as well as phosphates. Phosphates arent good things to have. You will notice that in alot of stores you can buy phosphate removers or sponges for use in your tank. Those are useful if you have a high level in your tank and need to remove them. The best way to get rid of them tho is to remove it from the water before it gets into your tank. This is where the RO/DI comes in.

RO(reverse osmosis) is a very very fine membrane which removes any matter within your water. down to 5 microns in the case of my filter. With this are pre and post carbon filters to remove things such as chlorine and other impurities. Once the water has passed through this part(the RO) it can be used in your tank without needing to have de-chlorinator added). But... There will still be phosphates. To get rid of this is where the DI(De-Ionizing) resins come into play. There are a couple of ways to do this.

Buy a TWP(Tap Water Purifier) from a LFS. Creatures has them. But it may be cheaper to get it through J&L here in Coquitlam. Can't remember Creatures price as it has been maaaaany moons since I shopped there. You use tehse by either hooking it up to your tap or hook it to the output of your RO to remove the phosphates. I wish I could explain how but I am no chemist.

Another option is what I use and that is a full DI cartridge added into your RO unit. I like this method as it is easy for me to hook it in line and forget about it.

MY RO/DI was purchased as Andrew Sheret In Vic. It is on Bay street near Dairy Queen.

The make/model number for my RO is an Aqua Flo E24TFC. It is a 24 GPD RO unit. The DI I ahd to put together by getting an extra cartridge holder form Andrew Sheret and get them to order in the DI cartridge. THE part number(I think) for that is, 155273-03 PCFI-10MB. That is what is written on the box I recieved from Andrew Sheret.

As for the hot water and using it in your RO. I woudl not use it with an RO as it will surely weaken the membrane, in my opinion, and shorten it's lifespan. Easy as that. Personally I see no reason why you would use hot. It costs you money to heat it and with an RO you do produce about 4 times the waste water as purified water.

I hope that helps a bit.. Keep in mind I dont know all the "in's and out's" of DI. but hope that this does help.

One thing to think about is that if you decide not to get an RO/DI right away any phosphates you put in your system will have to come out somehow. A phosphate sponge will not get it all out and it will sit in your sand bed and be consumed by various algaes and such at a later date. My 90 was really bad for phospahtes. It woudl slowly leech out of the sand bed. This kept my tank permanantly filled with algae. Even a voracious Tang and a cowfish could not keep it in check.

So there are a few words.. Hope they help..

If I have missed anything or made a mistake, I am sure one of the peanut gallery here will chime in.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Troy F]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DJ88:
Didn't pay as much as I would have for the Kent but am happier with it..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a 55gal/day Kent RO/DI and I didn't pay nearly $400 for it. I think I payed $300 including tax.

[DJ88]

If you read the fine print for Kent products it is Aquarium use only. Not suitable for human consumption. At least that was what has been passed onto me.

I paid that price so I can have clean water to drink and use to cook with. And is it ever nice.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

It depends what you want to use it for I guess. I looked into the Kents.. But the Aquaruim use only pushed me away.

As well for me to get the same setup through J&L I was looking at a lot more than $400. More like $600.

[ 09 October 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[Troy F]

Gotcha.