Lighting options

[ensquire]

Just trying to get some ideas on what people think in the area of lighting.
I'm starting a 90 Gallon DT with 30 Gallon sump next month and have a few options as far as lighting goes. Tank is 48L x 18H x 24W. It will eventually be a mixed reef so I think it would be good to just bite the bullet and jump into the LED fixtures. And I know that the 36" fixture would only work at best on a FOWLR tank. All opinions and advise appreciated
Options are :
(1) 36" Aquaticlife 6 x 39W T5 ( I have)
(2) 48" Degenboa 2 x 250W MH w 2 x 54W T5 ( I have)
(3) 2 AI Super Blue Sol
(4) 2 Ecotech Radion

[Brightwhite]

The measurments you gave are for a 120G...

[ensquire]

Oops 48 x 24 x 18 Thanks for the heads up . It is a 90 gallon

[unclesalty]

I have owned both fixtures and the Radion is by far the better fixture IMO- better coverage, wireless(less cables), nicer looking fixture, nicer coloring, and better programing+ features. Only thing I prefered with the AI is the lightening over the Radions lightening. I have 2 Radions right now over my 120gal and they look awesome. The AI's are nice but the Radions are just nicer IMO. The Radions are actually cheaper too than the AI's also because IMO you will definately need more than 2 AI's for a 120g. 2 AI's = 1 Radion for coverage. If it was me I would use 4 AI's on a 120g or 6 AI's on a 180g. Radions you need only 2 on a 120g and 3 or 4 on a 180g

[MarkoD]

A major thing to consider is that the radions are double the price of the ai.

I'm sure everyone would pick the radions if the price was lower

[unclesalty]

A major thing to consider is that the radions are double the price of the ai.

I'm sure everyone would pick the radions if the price was lower

Yes I hear you but IMO you need 2 AI's to equal 1 Radion so price is the same and you are getting a way better fixture with the Radion

[unclesalty]

A major thing to consider is that the radions are double the price of the ai.

I'm sure everyone would pick the radions if the price was lower

And with a killer boxing day sale from a Canreef vendor I just noticed, the Radion is even cheaper than 2 AI's

[ensquire]

And with a killer boxing day sale from a Canreef vendor I just noticed, the Radion is even cheaper than 2 AI's

I just was there and it has me thinking that way LOL

[riceboy]

Where was that?

[ensquire]

There are actually 2 vendors so far with that price reduction on the Radions.

[Madreefer]

I have yet to see any proof that you need 2 AI's to 1 Radion. I was set on getting the Radions but the price was way higher than my budget of $2k. So in my case it made total sense to buy 4 of the AI's complete with hanging kit and controller for the price of 2 Radions. I contacted Ecotech with a question on how many I needed for my system and they could'nt give me a good answer as to the required amount. Was really confused when they rate 1 fixture is equal to 1 250W MH. I'm choosing the Radions on your poll only cause I would like some reds as I think thats the only thing the AI Sols are lacking. You did'nt put prices up there so I set costs aside. But it is a known fact that all Ecotech products are overpriced but it's the consumers fault for paying them.

[MarkoD]

Yeah have no idea how anyone got 2 radions to 1 ai.

I'm gonna be running 3 ai on my 6 foot tank and it'll cover all my rocks and corals. There's no way I could do that with 1.5 or even 2 radions

[unclesalty]

Yeah have no idea how anyone got 2 radions to 1 ai.

I'm gonna be running 3 ai on my 6 foot tank and it'll cover all my rocks and corals. There's no way I could do that with 1.5 or even 2 radions

Compare them side by side and you will see. IMO and lots of other peoples opinion is that 6 AI's are reguired for a 6 ft tank. The AI's even with 70 degree optics installed do not have the coverage spread the Radions do. I have researched this for months but its also my opinion and everyone has a different opinion. I was originally going to go with a Vertex or 6 AI's but changed my mind and will have 4 Radions on my 6ft.

[MarkoD]

Compare them side by side and you will see. IMO and lots of other peoples opinion is that 6 AI's are reguired for a 6 ft tank. The AI's even with 70 degree optics installed do not have the coverage spread the Radions do. I have researched this for months but its also my opinion and everyone has a different opinion. I was originally going to go with a Vertex or 6 AI's but changed my mind and will have 4 Radions on my 6ft.

Well I see no reason for intensely lighting my sand, overflow box and the glass. So 3 ai fixtures perfectly cover all possible places where I can put corals

[unclesalty]

Well I see no reason for intensely lighting my sand, overflow box and the glass. So 3 ai fixtures perfectly cover all possible places where I can put corals

I still think you will need 4 AI's at a very bare minimum on a 6ft tank. But if 3 work for you all the better. Also the more fixtures you have the less spotlighting you will have. Also less intensity(watts) needed which they say prolongs the life of the fixture! The soon to be released AI Phoenix might compare to the Radion but right now the Sol isn't in the same league.

[d33ps3a]

Compare them side by side and you will see. IMO and lots of other peoples opinion is that 6 AI's are reguired for a 6 ft tank. The AI's even with 70 degree optics installed do not have the coverage spread the Radions do. I have researched this for months but its also my opinion and everyone has a different opinion. I was originally going to go with a Vertex or 6 AI's but changed my mind and will have 4 Radions on my 6ft.

I think this link will change your mind.
http://www.h2oplusomething.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=222:ecotech-radion-vs-aquaillumination-sol-vs-vertex-illumina&catid=40:equipment&Itemid=64

And they say 6 AI's are needed if you mount them perpindicular side by side. If mounted length wise 3 or 4 should be good.

[MarkoD]

honestly. you just spent 3 grand lighting your tank i spent less than a 1000.

even if i got an additional AI (which i might) i'd still be at less than half of what you paid

and if i wanted to spend 3 grand and get 8 AI sol fixtures. i'd have more power, and less spotlight than you'd have with 4 radions.

[unclesalty]

I think this link will change your mind.
http://www.h2oplusomething.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=222:ecotech-radion-vs-aquaillumination-sol-vs-vertex-illumina&catid=40:equipment&Itemid=64

And they say 6 AI's are needed if you mount them perpindicular side by side. If mounted length wise 3 or 4 should be good.

I did read that article a couple months back! The AI has better par but "spotlights" and has less coverage as seen in the pics. Lots of people on RC are also not happy with the AI's and there coloring.

[Borderjumper]

I'm REALLY impressed with the Radion!

[d33ps3a]

I did read that article a couple months back! The AI has better par but "spotlights" and has less coverage as seen in the pics. Lots of people on RC are also not happy with the AI's and there coloring.

That review was done with the 40 degree optics. There would probably be significantly less spotlighting if it had the 70 degree optics.

[MarkoD]

heres a picture of my tank right now, only 2 AI sols (still waiting for one to come in)
they are only 8 inches above the water. and running at 65% power

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2011-12-26at40234PM.png

im sure once i get 1 more fixture in the middle and i raise them all to about 12" above water, ill get great coverage and power

[unclesalty]

I'm REALLY impressed with the Radion!

I'm blown away by mine! the coloring, settings, programing and features that work with the powerheads! I bought mine blindly before any reviews were out but figured coming from Ecotech it would be A+ product with excellent customer service. Also glad I saved a few $$ by not buying the Vertex

[unclesalty]

That review was done with the 40 degree optics. There would probably be significantly less spotlighting if it had the 70 degree optics.

I did have a brand new AI with 70 degree optics installed. Still not as good coverage as the Radion

[d33ps3a]

Dollar for dollar the AIs look way more enticing to purchase. 3 radions @ 800 for a total about $2400. For the AIs, with $2400 you could get 5 AIs. IMHO

[MarkoD]

I did have a brand new AI with 70 degree optics installed. Still not as good coverage as the Radion

its cuz the radions have no optics

[unclesalty]

its cuz the radions have no optics

I'l take my Radions anyday -thanks!

[ensquire]

how do most of these fixtures get mounted?? Side by side or length ways? My tank is only 18" wide and I feel that If I mounted 2 fixtures length ways it would be enough using the Radions as long as they were a foot off the tank. I feel I would need 3 if I went side by side and would probably not need to be quite that distance up. now price wise that would be significant , I personaly like the radions better, but I'm not sure if they are that much better. having a hard time justifying the extra expense. If 2 lengthways works its 1700.00 compared to 1000.00 with controller and rails.. If it's 3 side by side that makes it about 2500.00 compared to 1300.00..
But if it's 2 radions lengthways vs 3 AI side by side it brings things closer..
Are the Radions that much better??

[Reef Pilot]

Well, I hope the Radions are good, cause I splurged today, and bought the last 3 on the shelf today at J&L's. And that was only at around 8:30 AM! They are going on my 6' tank, where I just have T5's right now.

[Borderjumper]

Well, I hope the Radions are good, cause I splurged today, and bought the last 3 on the shelf today at J&L's. And that was only at around 8:30 AM! They are going on my 6' tank, where I just have T5's right now.
I doubt you will be disappointed!

[MarkoD]

I'l take my Radions anyday -thanks!

Yeah and I'll take my 2 grand any day

[d33ps3a]

That fan on the radion is kind of concerning. Being on the bottom of the fixture, you are going to be sucking moisture head on. Would you not also get some salt in there also? If it was on the top it wouldn't be so bad cause you aren't facing the water. Any radio owners wanna chime in?

[unclesalty]

That fan on the radion is kind of concerning. Being on the bottom of the fixture, you are going to be sucking moisture head on. Would you not also get some salt in there also? If it was on the top it wouldn't be so bad cause you aren't facing the water. Any radio owners wanna chime in?

I thought the exact same thing. The fan draws air from the bottom and then it channels it out the 2 ends. The electronics are completely sealed from the air passage cooling tunnels so nothing to worry about. The fan itself could be a problem down the road but thought I heard where it was only $20 to replace fan but not 100% sure on that price.

[intarsiabox]

heres a picture of my tank right now, only 2 AI sols (still waiting for one to come in)
they are only 8 inches above the water. and running at 65% power

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2011-12-26at40234PM.png

im sure once i get 1 more fixture in the middle and i raise them all to about 12" above water, ill get great coverage and power

Looks like really good coverage with the AI's considering it's only 2 units over six foot long tank. Makes me wonder why some say the coverage is bad with the AI's. Oh well, I guess if I paid double the price for poorer par I would look for a justification too. To each their own, either fixture will grow coral just fine.

[MarkoD]

Looks like really good coverage with the AI's considering it's only 2 units over six foot long tank. Makes me wonder why some say the coverage is bad with the AI's. Oh well, I guess if I paid double the price for poorer par I would look for a justification too. To each their own, either fixture will grow coral just fine.

exactly. no one is gonna spend 3 grand on 4 radions and then publicly admit they made a mistake, thats why you'll never get an honest review.


i also havent seen anyone mention that the radions have a big ass power supply thats almost bigger than the unit itself.

[Madreefer]

That fan on the radion is kind of concerning. Being on the bottom of the fixture, you are going to be sucking moisture head on. Would you not also get some salt in there also? If it was on the top it wouldn't be so bad cause you aren't facing the water. Any radio owners wanna chime in?

I dont think it'll be a problem. You wont be mounting them close to the water anyways. As to the people having problems with the AI's well they've been out alot longer so of course there will be some reviews. There will be some negative feedback from the Radions as well just as soon as people start bleaching and frying all their corals. IME I started to have a little bit of algae show up on my sandbed due to a little impatience.The biggest mistake people make is turning the intensity up too high from the start. I grow corals not sand, who cares, I got a sandsifter problem solved. If one can get their hands on a par meter or have a little patience all should go well. No need to be a couple of kids arguing over who's got the better bike. Both lights are good. The AI Sols work good for me and theres good reviews on the Radions. Buy what you can afford.

[unclesalty]

I dont think it'll be a problem. You wont be mounting them close to the water anyways. As to the people having problems with the AI's well they've been out alot longer so of course there will be some reviews. There will be some negative feedback from the Radions as well just as soon as people start bleaching and frying all their corals. IME I started to have a little bit of algae show up on my sandbed due to a little impatience.The biggest mistake people make is turning the intensity up too high from the start. I grow corals not sand, who cares, I got a sandsifter problem solved. If one can get their hands on a par meter or have a little patience all should go well. No need to be a couple of kids arguing over who's got the better bike. Both lights are good. The AI Sols work good for me and theres good reviews on the Radions. Buy what you can afford.

Exactly-buy what you can afford! I do have a par meter and I did own both an AI and Radion at the same time. Was an easy decision for me which to sell and which to keep!

[Zoaelite]

exactly. no one is gonna spend 3 grand on 4 radions and then publicly admit they made a mistake, thats why you'll never get an honest review.


i also havent seen anyone mention that the radions have a big ass power supply thats almost bigger than the unit itself.

Apostrophe button broken :razz:?

Ended up being just under $5000 for 6 of them and I couldn't be happier thus far! I'm a little confused on your opinion though, if someone was to think they were cheesed on the lights wouldn't that be more incentive to post about it?

I was looking at both options but opted for the Ecotech due to previous customer service response from the company. They make an unreal power head, theory would stick that there lights are pretty high quality.

[Zoaelite]

i also havent seen anyone mention that the radions have a big ass power supply thats almost bigger than the unit itself.

What's wrong with a little junk in the trunk?

[Borderjumper]

exactly. no one is gonna spend 3 grand on 4 radions and then publicly admit they made a mistake, thats why you'll never get an honest review.


i also havent seen anyone mention that the radions have a big ass power supply thats almost bigger than the unit itself.

And what a nice ballast it is.. Powder coated, with an indicator lamp and a jack for a battery backup power supply.

[The Grizz]

How come there is no DIY option in the poll? :razz:

[fishytime]

I was looking at both options but opted for the Ecotech due to previous customer service response from the company. They make an unreal power head, theory would stick that there lights are pretty high quality.

ya the customer service is great because they have had so much practice dealing with the wet side issues:mrgreen:......its to the point that when you order Vortech pumps they automatically send a service pack to deal with any warranty issues...........dont get me wrong ....I love the three vortechs I have.....they are a cool pump that move massive amounts of water and I will continue to fix mine....but IMHO the wet sides need work

I know someone who is running both the AIs and the Radions on separate tanks and he says go with the AIs......he says the programing sucks on the Radions and the AIs have better par.....Im not sure if his opinion about the programming has changed at all after the software update....


It will be interesting if a couple more of the big dogs, like Giessemann or ATI finally get into the game.....

[cale262]

Exactly-buy what you can afford! I do have a par meter and I did own both an AI and Radion at the same time. Was an easy decision for me which to sell and which to keep!


This is a common statement from those who have owned both the AI and the Radions...the Radions always win out with the ability to dial in your colour spectrum to your liking, something which the current version of the AI's aren't able to accomplish. If price point is the real issue then I think the DIY would be the best option if you have the time to spare.


On a side note, I just ordered two more Radions for my frag tank build :wink:

[MarkoD]

I just can't understand why someone would pay so much more money for something that can be achieved for less money.

Red and green LEDs are not going to increase coral growth.

[cale262]

I just can't understand why someone would pay so much more money for something that can be achieved for less money.

Red and green LEDs are not going to increase coral growth.


I guess you would would be the expert there:wink:

I have more than enough par to burn up everything in my tank and grow any coral I wish...I also like to look at my coral, the ability to adjust colours is more than worth the little bit of money involved...I think it's already been said here, buy what you can afford... if it's a car to get you from A to B and you can only afford the ford focus, then buy the focus...if you want to drive in style with every possible creature comfort and you have the means to do so, buy a nice Mercedes...both cars are going to get you there, ones just much nicer than the other...IMHO.

Or...maybe you'd understand this statement better...

I have a nice point and shoot camera, it takes nice pictures and only cost me $500. My father takes some nice pictures with his camera too, he doesn't think twice about spending $10,000 on one lense...that doesn't make sense to me but it does to him.

[MarkoD]

I guess you would would be the expert there:wink:

I have more than enough par to burn up everything in my tank and grow any coral I wish...I also like to look at my coral, the ability to adjust colours is more than worth the little bit of money involved...I think it's already been said here, buy what you can afford... if it's a car to get you from A to B and you can only afford the ford focus, then buy the focus...if you want to drive in style with every possible creature comfort and you have the means to do so, buy a nice Mercedes...both cars are going to get you there, ones just much nicer than the other...IMHO.

What do you mean adjust the color? The only LEDs in the radions that have any real sigificants are the whites and blues.

First thing in the morning, turn up only the red or green to the highest power and see if the corals even respond to the light.

[fishytime]

Red and green LEDs are not going to increase coral growth.


the red spectrum actually does directly affect growth....both coral and algae (so nutrient rich systems beware:mrgreen:)


I also like to look at my coral, the ability to adjust colours is more than worth the little bit of money involved

can get the same effect with a string of Christmas lights.....in fact they are probably on sale right now:razz:

...I think it's already been said here, buy what you can afford... if it's a car to get you from A to B and you can only afford the ford focus, then buy the focus...if you want to drive in style with every possible creature comfort and you have the means to do so, buy a nice Mercedes...both cars are going to get you there, ones just much nicer than the other...IMHO.

but see.....some posters here are saying that you need two Focuses to one Mercedes, to get you where you are going.......thats more what the debate is about.....

[Madreefer]

What do you mean adjust the color? The only LEDs in the radions that have any real sigificants are the whites and blues.

First thing in the morning, turn up only the red or green to the highest power and see if the corals even respond to the light.

A buddy has the Vertex, did'nt even think about them when I was in the market for LEDs. IMO way overpriced and like having seperate units shall something go wrong and you have to send away. But the option to adjust the reds is so wicked. It really is cool to be able to get that perfect color by adjusting the reds which can be done on the Radions. I forgot to mention that next summer I plan on replacing 2 of my AI's with 2 Radions just so I can do some reds. I just hope the price goes down and that they will be able to fit on the light rails for the AI's.

[Zoaelite]

What do you mean adjust the color? The only LEDs in the radions that have any real sigificants are the whites and blues.


Proof plz... Green probably no but red certainly does provide light energy for photosynthesis.

[ensquire]

How come there is no DIY option in the poll? :razz:

Sorry buddy, not a DIY guy when it comes to lighting, and actually not much difference, price wise, than the AI, if I did my figuring right on Modular's site.

[intarsiabox]

Aren't the white LEDs on both units full spectrum already? Meaning they already carry the proper light output colors of the sun. The other bulbs simulate deeper water effects and enhance colors to the viewers taste not to simulate colors as you would see them in person underwater. There are numerous LED companies out there that sell cheap add-on set ups to add different colors to suit your personal tastes regardless of what light set up one chooses.

BTW I love the Focus vs Mercedes comparison, twice the price and twice the shop time! I really hope that's not how the reliability of the radion turns out. LED reliability has already been given a bad rep by a previous "top end" manufacturer.

[intarsiabox]

Sorry buddy, not a DIY guy when it comes to lighting, and actually not much difference, price wise, than the AI, if I did my figuring right on Modular's site.

I came to the same conclusion if I only needed a couple of units. If you need to cover an 8 foot tank and can buy in bulk, the pricing is quite a bit cheaper going DIY!

[cale262]

... LED reliability has already been given a bad rep by a previous "top end" manufacturer.

I agree with you there, I own a few other high end LED fixtures, two of which have been a huge letdown, Pacific Sun & Reef-tech. The pacsun fixture was very nice until the blue drivers failed, then i find out the Canadian distributor dropped them and wouldnt give me any warranty assistance...Reef-tech made all kinds of promises but never came through with the software as advertised. I went with Ecotech Marine as they have a great rep for customer care, and they are local to north America, no more euro-trash electronics for me if I can help it...

[intarsiabox]

I agree with you there, I own a few other high end LED fixtures, two of which have been a huge letdown, Pacific Sun & Reef-tech. The pacsun fixture was very nice until the blue drivers failed, then i find out the Canadian distributor dropped them and wouldnt give me any warranty assistance...Reef-tech made all kinds of promises but never came through with the software as advertised. I went with Ecotech Marine as they have a great rep for customer care, and they are local to north America, no more euro-trash electronics for me if I can help it...

I like that Eco-tech has been around for quite awhile and are not a fly by night company. I'm sure that any issues that do arise will be dealt with and not leave owners holding a pile of garbage from a defunct company.

[The Grizz]

Sorry buddy, not a DIY guy when it comes to lighting, and actually not much difference, price wise, than the AI, if I did my figuring right on Modular's site.

I hear ya bro, it's a good thing I like to build stuff. :biggrin:

I came to the same conclusion if I only needed a couple of units. If you need to cover an 8 foot tank and can buy in bulk, the pricing is quite a bit cheaper going DIY!

I did the math on buying manufactured fixtures and there was no way in helz the wife would go for that.

[intarsiabox]

I did the math on buying manufactured fixtures and there was no way in helz the wife would go for that.

Sounds like you use the same bank I do!

[The Grizz]

Sounds like you use the same bank I do!

Yep, Bank of Old Lady :biggrin:

[ensquire]

I spoiled my wife so bad at Xmas , I get a free pass here on lighting.
What i have decided thus far is that it definately will be LED. Just waitng for quotes to come in from 4 of the reliable vendors on here, then it's decision time.
Judging by poll results Radion is the most liked so far, so it comes down to a price choice.

[cale262]

Here's some Radion 411, also over a 4' 90gal system...he's also tested the AIs and ecoxotics...

http://www.MrSaltWaterTank.com/mr-saltwater-tanks-radion-experiment-update/

[ensquire]

Here's some Radion 411, also over a 4' 90gal system...he's also tested the AIs and ecoxotics...

http://www.MrSaltWaterTank.com/mr-saltwater-tanks-radion-experiment-update/

That's the one that really started me thinking Radion, tank full of corals and 2 fixtures run lengthways.

[unclesalty]

ya the customer service is great because they have had so much practice dealing with the wet side issues:mrgreen:......its to the point that when you order Vortech pumps they automatically send a service pack to deal with any warranty issues...........dont get me wrong ....I love the three vortechs I have.....they are a cool pump that move massive amounts of water and I will continue to fix mine....but IMHO the wet sides need work

I know someone who is running both the AIs and the Radions on separate tanks and he says go with the AIs......he says the programing sucks on the Radions and the AIs have better par.....Im not sure if his opinion about the programming has changed at all after the software update....


It will be interesting if a couple more of the big dogs, like Giessemann or ATI finally get into the game.....

Giessemann are getting in the game as they already have a LED fixture soon to be released

[MarkoD]

So when you're running 8 x 5 watt whites, 8 x 3 watt blues and 10 x 3 watt royal blues at full power and you turn on the 4 x 3 watt reds, does the color of the tank turn purple or pink?

My question is, if you're running the whites and blues can adding the red and green LEDs actually change the color of the light? Or is it only really visible when the high powered LEDs are off?

[ensquire]

Just an update of sorts.
Have received two quotes so far, and as far as vendors see it, there is a 1 1/2 to 1 ratio at minimum for Sol fixtures. Depending on if you have a center brace or not.

[riceboy]

Which one are you going with?

[ensquire]

Which one are you going with?

I'm going to go with the Radions
The basic argument either way here seems to be that if they were the same price, must people would go with Radions.
I like the fact that there is only a need for 2 fixtures instead of 3 or 4 with the AI.
Broader light spectrum.
Better spread.

[unclesalty]

I'm going to go with the Radions
The basic argument either way here seems to be that if they were the same price, must people would go with Radions.
I like the fact that there is only a need for 2 fixtures instead of 3 or 4 with the AI.
Broader light spectrum.
Better spread.

Good choice and I agree with you 100%. You won't be disappointed at all!

[ensquire]

Okay Off to the hardware for sale section and see if anyone wants a couple of light fixtures.
Thanks for all the comments...