Thinking of going bare bottom!

[Reefer Rob]

Well more of a zoanthid bottom actually.

After seeing Ian from Oceanic's tank I now have "flow envy". Right now I have a thin layer of sand for "aesthetics", and there's no way I can get that kind of flow without blasting sand everywhere.

So for all the bare bottoms out there it's time to expose your self :surprise: Let see what you've done in place of sand.

By the way, I have Goggle... and know all the pros and cons. I don't want that kind of discussion. It tends to get a little heated for me :wink:

[Leah]

:redface: hope you are under the age of 5 :wink:

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Well more of a zoanthid bottom actually.

After seeing Ian from Oceanic's tank I now have "flow envy". Right now I have a thin layer of sand for "aesthetics", and there's no way I can get that kind of flow without blasting sand everywhere.

So for all the bare bottoms out there it's time to expose your self :surprise: Let see what you've done in place of sand.

By the way, I have Goggle... and know all the pros and cons. I don't want that kind of discussion. It tends to get a little heated for me :wink:


I will always push bare bottom for functionality and ULNS but I do like the look of a sand bottom on some tanks. It would be impossible to have the flow I currently have if I were to have substrate........

:mrgreen:

[FitoPharmer]

I use tumbled marble flooring tiles for my bare bottom. They are turning out to be way better then sand! I am planning on having a Zoa garden bottom as well. I'm planning to try and have a single species per tile. Hopefully it will fill out into a cool checker board pattern. The plus side to the tiles is they are turning out to be a neat version of nutrient export. If a tile gets covered in a little too much algae it can be easily removed from the tank scraped, scrubbed, and washed before returning it. Or you can buy some spares and just replace with new ones and bleach the old ones. The tiles do not seem to grown any additional nuisance algae either. substrate and flow!

[Reefer Rob]

:redface: hope you are under the age of 5 :wink:

My wife says I act it sometimes :redface:

[mark]

if you go BB it doesn't stay that way for long due coralline algae growth. I finally got some zoas growing on the bottom of mine but seems they do prefer growing on rubble. Did have a fair bit of monti plate growing directly on the bottom that was neat but lost in my SPS crash.

Here's a link (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35197//) to a Canreef thread showing a GSP bottomed display

[LeeR]

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k329/LeeRoz_2008/reef/DSC_0041-1.jpg raw marble tile

[FitoPharmer]

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k329/LeeRoz_2008/reef/DSC_0041-1.jpg raw marble tile
awesome! do you find corals grow faster on the marble tiles?

[Skimmerking]

BB was great for me lots of flow the snails if they fell it was easier for them toget back on there way too. With sand you loose the wrasses that I love, but there is always a down side. Just remember you will get coraline Algae growning on the bottom and that means the CAL and ALk levels will increase alot too.

Coraline algae consumes huge CAL and ALK demands

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

BB was great for me lots of flow the snails if they fell it was easier for them toget back on there way too. With sand you loose the wrasses that I love, but there is always a down side. Just remember you will get coraline Algae growning on the bottom and that means the CAL and ALk levels will increase alot too.

Coraline algae consumes huge CAL and ALK demands


I agree with the Coraline algae as it has all but completely covered the floor of my tank; however, I also have three Wrasses for over 2 years and they are very happy with their surroundings. Wrasses will get used to no sand and eventually wedge themselves into the rocks at night.

[FitoPharmer]

I have a Leopard wrasse in my tank with a BB. At night he just hovers on the bottom near the clown fish normally. I was surprised he does not go into the rock work more often. He is a very friendly fish thought.

[Reefer Rob]

What about Tiger Tail cucs? I'm thinking they'll have to go... if I can get them out.

[Skimmerking]

I have a Leopard wrasse in my tank with a BB. At night he just hovers on the bottom near the clown fish normally. I was surprised he does not go into the rock work more often. He is a very friendly fish thought.
really i have a leoprad and a flasher wrasse and 2 tiger tails weird about the wrasses

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

What about Tiger Tail cucs? I'm thinking they'll have to go... if I can get them out.


Have to go, they will starve long term.......

[christyf5]

yeah no sandbed was totally the way to go for me. The bottom of my tank is covered with various coralline and other algae and piles of detritus accumulate in low flow areas which I have to siphon out on a regular basis.

I definitely think the tiger tail cucs will have to go, I remember when I had a sandbed they were always buried and constantly tunneling through the sand. I don't think they would react well, or be as well fed without a sandbed.

[scar_11]

Did you paint the bottom of the tank or just leave it clear

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

yeah no sandbed was totally the way to go for me. The bottom of my tank is covered with various coralline and other algae and piles of detritus accumulate in low flow areas which I have to siphon out on a regular basis.

I definitely think the tiger tail cucs will have to go, I remember when I had a sandbed they were always buried and constantly tunneling through the sand. I don't think they would react well, or be as well fed without a sandbed.


Exactly how is works for me, would not go back to sand.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Did you paint the bottom of the tank or just leave it clear


Don't bother, it will cover with Coraline fairly quickly....

[don.ald]

Well more of a zoanthid bottom actually.

After seeing Ian from Oceanic's tank I now have "flow envy". Right now I have a thin layer of sand for "aesthetics", and there's no way I can get that kind of flow without blasting sand everywhere.

So for all the bare bottoms out there it's time to expose your self :surprise: Let see what you've done in place of sand.

By the way, I have Goggle... and know all the pros and cons. I don't want that kind of discussion. It tends to get a little heated for me :wink:

what about the flow? maybe you can describe it to those of us out of town.:mrgreen:

[christyf5]

I've often thought that perhaps the starboard option was the way to go (although I have no idea where to get it around here) as I miss the reflection of the white sand that really brightens up the tank but again, once it covers with coralline and various other algaes, the effect pretty much is lost and I feel its a bit of a waste.

[Reefer Rob]

Darn, I have to work till 5:00. I'm getting sooo excited about this. Can't wait to point my closed loop nozzles anywhere I want!

Planning on mounting a Maxijet mod on a Wavy Sea centered on the back wall. Something that would now make a huge sand pile.

[scar_11]

Oceanic - I have been looking around for pictures of your tank but I can't find them can you point me in the right direction

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

what about the flow? maybe you can describe it to those of us out of town.:mrgreen:


150 G tank

Running

1- MP40
2- Tunze 6125's
1- Wavbox
1-Maximod 1200
1-Mag 9 return

= 13,640 GPH flow...... water is really moving in the tank...

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Oceanic - I have been looking around for pictures of your tank but I can't find them can you point me in the right direction


I will upload a couple new pictures tonight! Everything grows so fast the older pictures won't do it justice.

[Reefer Rob]

150 G tank

Running

1- MP40
2- Tunze 6125's
1- Wavbox
1-Maximod 1200
1-Mag 9 return

= 13,640 GPH flow...... water is really moving in the tank...

Yup, and your corals were so happy they were dancin' :biggrin:

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Darn, I have to work till 5:00. I'm getting sooo excited about this. Can't wait to point my closed loop nozzles anywhere I want!

Planning on mounting a Maxijet mod on a Wavy Sea centered on the back wall. Something that would now make a huge sand pile.


Rob,

Don't remove all the sand at once! You are essentially removing a large portion of your bacterial colonization. If you remove it all at once you may cause unwanted issues, ie RTN-STN due to increases in Nitrate and Phosphate. You also need to consider adding more rock to your sump/refugium in order to replace the medium that the bacteria just lost.

I run zeovit and biopellets so these two items make up for a lack of substrate...

Ian

[Reefer Rob]

My sand is just a skiff really, barely covers the bottom. Nutrients are very low, pretty sure I won't notice it.

Thinking about the Bio-pellets, been reading about them on RC... one thing at a time

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

My sand is just a skiff really, barely covers the bottom. Nutrients are very low, pretty sure I won't notice it.

Thinking about the Bio-pellets, been reading about them on RC... one thing at a time


Okay,

Just making sure!

[mseepman]

I'm really looking forward to seeing some pictures of your tank Ian. I'm planning a new tank and my two current tanks each have about 1 1/2" of sand. I think I would miss it a lot if it was gone but love the idea of easy detrius removal and big flow without sandstorms.

[albert_dao]

I'm really looking forward to seeing some pictures of your tank Ian. I'm planning a new tank and my two current tanks each have about 1 1/2" of sand. I think I would miss it a lot if it was gone but love the idea of easy detrius removal and big flow without sandstorms.

Pfft, Ian's tank has too many colors in it. I disapprove. Not enough brown. More brown plz.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Pfft, Ian's tank has too many colors in it. I disapprove. Not enough brown. More brown plz.


LMAO, I do have one brown colony to give away but it is about the size or bigger than a basket ball! Does have blue tips though!

[Reefer Rob]

Yup, I think we should ban Ian's tank from the board... he's going to make the rest of us look bad! :razz:

[banditpowdercoat]

I just took 15g of sand out of my 150 yesterday, to move it and redo the floor. I don't think I will put any back in. My checkerboard wrasse will be ****ed. But I call him Wr******* cause he just covers everyting with sand to tick me off LOL so paybacks HA!

[LeeR]

awesome! do you find corals grow faster on the marble tiles?

just as fast as on rock

[whatcaneyedo]

Its mostly personal preference I guess. I'm a sand person, always have been always will be. I tried BB in my frag tank for a few months but I didnt like even in there it so I put back a very fine layer.

[Reefer Rob]

Ya, I like the look of sand, but I have to have the flow, and my Wife's been asking me to go bare bottom for a long time. :surprise: The 2 Dart pumps I have for circulation worked OK while my corals were small, but with everything filling in they're just not cutting it.

Seeing the amount of flow in Ian's tank made me re-evaluate my current setup. I noticed that the flow from my return pumps was no longer making it to the center of the tank, and the polyps were weren't moving like they used to.

It's time to make some changes. I'm pretty sure if I just let my tank keep growing in without adding flow it's heading for a major crash.

[kien]

My bottom is bare right now! Oh wait.. was that TMI ?? :lol:

Actually, I am a sand person too. I tried bare bottom for a period of time in my previous 90 gallon and loved it. However, when I set up my new 150 I found all that bottom glass lacking something so I put in a sprinkling of sand. I like the look of both, but in my current tank I just preferred having sand.

If you have the correct configuration with the tank, aquascaping, flow equipment, etc, you can maintain a decent amount of flow without blasting the sand bottom. For example, powerheads like the vortech have a nice gentle wide area of flow which is great for corals and won't blast your sandbed. There are lots of great SPS rich tanks out there with sand bottoms. I wouldn't personally suggest that every SPS tank needs super amounts of flow. Good quality flow is key, not necessarily lots of flow. It just happens that a lot of times to achieve the proper quality of flow, cranking up the amount of flow follows, but is not always necessary.

[mark]

Start of the zoas on the BB (one on the left just pulled out fr under the LR so looking sad)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/P1270019.jpg

[mseepman]

Ya, I like the look of sand, but I have to have the flow, and my Wife's been asking me to go bare bottom for a long time. :surprise: The 2 Dart pumps I have for circulation worked OK while my corals were small, but with everything filling in they're just not cutting it.

Seeing the amount of flow in Ian's tank made me re-evaluate my current setup. I noticed that the flow from my return pumps was no longer making it to the center of the tank, and the polyps were weren't moving like they used to.

It's time to make some changes. I'm pretty sure if I just let my tank keep growing in without adding flow it's heading for a major crash.

Rob I looked around but couldn't find a FTS of your tank....want to include it so we see what you're going from before you pull the sand?

[Borderjumper]

I go bare bottom too.
I hate the look tho, so I have 2 tanks with the bottom covered in flat shelf rock in kinda a horse shoe pattern with the middle left open for crud to blow to, and in the third tank I lined the bottom with rics.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/Carrida/IMG_0218.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

I just saw a picture of your tank in your sale thread and was just thinking of how amazing it looks! Don't do it!

BB looks so unnatural and often times kind of sterile. I think most people try to recreate what might be found in the ocean and on all my dives so far, I have yet to find any glass bottoms :lol: I guess most reefs are not all that natural looking because we tend to choose a wide variety of corals from many different areas but going BB is just taking it to another level of unnatural.

I would say in your case, your tank is so nice and working so well, why change anything?

Don't take this the wrong way but it won't look anything like it does now if you remove that nice white sand. :biggrin:

[Borderjumper]

^ the purple tang in my last picture is for sale btw :)

[mark]

Borderjumper, WOW

[Reefer Rob]

Here's one taken on the Jan 23rd. Shows the sand a bit.
http://excalibur.bc.ca/aquarium/Tank%20Journal/slides/Full%202010%2001%2023.jpg

Tank size is 180G 6' x 2' x 2'

For flow I have a Dart (3600 GPH) closed loop split 4 ways, and a Dart return (about 2400 GPH with head loss) split to 2 Wavy Seas.

Hoping to add a Maxjet Mod on a Wavy Sea on the back wall (where the frag rack is), likely rotating 10 or 15 degrees each side of pointing straight forward.

I going to have to find the original propelor that came with the mod kit I bought from Chin Lee. I had switched it to a lower flow prop because the original flow could stir up the sand at the oposite end of my tank. That's a problem that''ll be fixed tonight :wink:

[Reefer Rob]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

I just saw a picture of your tank in your sale thread and was just thinking of how amazing it looks! Don't do it!

BB looks so unnatural and often times kind of sterile. I think most people try to recreate what might be found in the ocean and on all my dives so far, I have yet to find any glass bottoms :lol: I guess most reefs are not all that natural looking because we tend to choose a wide variety of corals from many different areas but going BB is just taking it to another level of unnatural.

I would say in your case, your tank is so nice and working so well, why change anything?

Don't take this the wrong way but it won't look anything like it does now if you remove that nice white sand. :biggrin:

The sand can always go back in if I don't like it. Been wanting to do the Zoa bottom thing for a loooong time.

Damn, now I have to add Rics too!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The sand can always go back in if I don't like it. Been wanting to do the Zoa bottom thing for a loooong time.

Damn, now I have to add Rics too!

Well its all personal preference in the end. I just think the tank looks so clean and sleek that adding a bunch of zoas on the bottom will really mess with the balance and create a clutter but that's just me :wink:

There is a gorgeous 1000G tank on RC (everyone probably knows which one I mean) and the corals, aquascaping is AMAZING but then there are these clusters on clams and lps all lined up on the bottom and it just kills the over all look. He has pictures from before littering his sand with corals/clams and the tank looks a million times better.

Amazing tank regardless. Yours and his :)

EDIT: I assume you know Denis based on your coral collection :D

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

The glass is only visible for a short time until Coraline algae covers it, eventually it just looks like bare rock only flat.

[Reefer Rob]

Ya, I was looking at your tank for a while before I said "hey you've got a bare bottom". It's not that noticeable really.

[BC Mosaic]

OK guys. What do these acronyms mean?

ULNS
Starboard
FTS

Nice looking tank, Reefer Rob. But I notice there is no coraline algae on the side & back panels. Is that because you constantly scrape them away or they just don't grow that much for you?

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

OK guys. What do these acronyms mean?

ULNS
Starboard
FTS

Nice looking tank, Reefer Rob. But I notice there is no coraline algae on the side & back panels. Is that because you constantly scrape them away or they just don't grow that much for you?


ULTRA LOW NUTRIENT SYSTEM
STARBOARD ---> kind of plastic that can be placed on bottom of tank
FTS ---> Full Tank Shot

[Reefer Rob]

OK guys. What do these acronyms mean?

ULNS
Starboard
FTS

Nice looking tank, Reefer Rob. But I notice there is no coraline algae on the side & back panels. Is that because you constantly scrape them away or they just don't grow that much for you?

I scrape... but not constantly. As soon as I see specks of Coraline I scrape, otherwise the job is unbearable!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Is the tank in wall? I ask because of the 3 sides being blue.

[Reefer Rob]

It is in a stand, the sides are covered.

I forgot to mention one of my other reasons for going bare bottom. I have an Orange Shoulder Tang that likes to eat sand, then poop it out all over my corals and rock work. Every day I have to blow it off my Caps. This'll fix him!

1/3rd done... what a job!

[scar_11]

I am pretty sure I am going to a bare bottom tank any advice as I am setting in up in the next little while

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Went BB with my 210g reef at first. After 6 months, wife & I decided we hated the look so added 100 lbs of sand & voila, loved it.

If you go BB, then you can always add sand later without negative consequences if done properly.

Anthony

[banditpowdercoat]

Well, after re aquascaping my tank yesterday, pretty much bare bottom. Have a tiny bit of sand. Just enough to cover most of the bottom, but it's being blown around to show bare glass in area's. I think I like it :D
I'll try for a FTS today

[Leah]

Well, after re aquascaping my tank yesterday, pretty much bare bottom. Have a tiny bit of sand. Just enough to cover most of the bottom, but it's being blown around to show bare glass in area's. I think I like it :D
I'll try for a FTS today

Do I get a sneak preview first, just to give my approval of course!

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Well, after re aquascaping my tank yesterday, pretty much bare bottom. Have a tiny bit of sand. Just enough to cover most of the bottom, but it's being blown around to show bare glass in area's. I think I like it :D
I'll try for a FTS today

You likely won't go back! The glass will encrust with Coraline, you can crank up the flow big time, you overall nutrients will be less, your Corals will be happy!

[banditpowdercoat]

LOL, Leah, maybe :D

Ian, ya that's what I am hoping for, lower nutrients. What was trapped in my sand, after 6 months was appalling. AND stinky!!!!! Now, I have a delema of what to do with 15g of sand in a Brute garbage can, that I can't move LOL

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

LOL, Leah, maybe :D

Ian, ya that's what I am hoping for, lower nutrients. What was trapped in my sand, after 6 months was appalling. AND stinky!!!!! Now, I have a delema of what to do with 15g of sand in a Brute garbage can, that I can't move LOL


Mix the sand into your compost or into your garden, will work wonders for your plants considering how much nutrient gets saturated.

[whatcaneyedo]

LOL, Leah, maybe :D

Ian, ya that's what I am hoping for, lower nutrients. What was trapped in my sand, after 6 months was appalling. AND stinky!!!!! Now, I have a delema of what to do with 15g of sand in a Brute garbage can, that I can't move LOL

When I removed my deep sand bed and went shallow I began turning that excess sand into frag disks. I've made around 80 large ones and over 200 little ones so far... and I still have a lot of extra sand. Obviously you'll want to rinse the sand as well as you can first.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59760

[Reefer Rob]

It's definitely some kind of ugly when the sand first comes out. Still trying to get used to the look of it, but I'm sure it'll look better when the coraline starts. Super cool how I can direct flow anywhere I like now. For that reason alone I think I'd find it difficult to put the sand back in.

I'm having a lot of trouble getting the last bit of sand out from between the rocks, and the sand has caked along where the rock meets the glass so it has to be chipped out. So for the next little while it looks like I'll be blasting with a power head and siphoning :cry:

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

It's definitely some kind of ugly when the sand first comes out. Still trying to get used to the look of it, but I'm sure it'll look better when the coraline starts. Super cool how I can direct flow anywhere I like now. For that reason alone I think I'd find it difficult to put the sand back in.

I'm having a lot of trouble getting the last bit of sand out from between the rocks, and the sand has caked along where the rock meets the glass so it has to be chipped out. So for the next little while it looks like I'll be blasting with a power head and siphoning :cry:


You will likely have to do this on a regular basis anyway as the debris will tend to collect in a certain area of the tank with the flow.

[Canadian]

I know the typical mantra is that BB allows you to push more flow through your tank and that's certainly true - you can without the risk of sand blowing around.

With that said, I've recently reduced the flow in my BB 24 x 24 tank and noticed a significant improvement in growth rate. Previously I was running around 75X my tank volume in flow and now I'm down to around 55X. I may be in a unique situation given how small my tank is and the fact that most of my corals are mini colonies and not large colonies yet. The smaller corals probably aren't impeding flow as much as would occur in other tanks or with larger colonies. But just because you can get away with running more flow in a BB tank doesn't mean it's the best decision.

I have a few theories on why reducing the flow has helped my tank. The primary one being that the lack of sand and my open rockwork minimizes the scrubbing of flow velocity that occurs in tanks with sand where the sand scrubs some of the velocity of the flow. Of course it may also have something to do with slower flow allowing the coral polyps more time to capture some food.

[Reefer Rob]

Interesting you're getting better growth with less flow. I was under the impression you can't have too much flow in an SPS tank, unless a nozzle is pointing directly at a coral. I know corals will alter their growth form, growing shorter and heavier in a very turbulent environment. My Yellow Slimer was doing this until I switched to a flare nozzle on my Wavy Seas.

Definitely better flow around the rocks at the base without the sand. With the sand covering it I'd forgotten how open my rock work is at the bottom. Not sure how much the texture of the sand itself impedes flow.