Blue Ringed Octopus

[gobytron]

They have one at Big Als in Burnaby right now for 39.99.
I set up a 32 gallon tank with about 40lbs of LR with the expectation that I am going to buy this thing and house it all by itself, I'll bu using an xp1 for flow and to hide the heater and pack in some lr rubble and I will be using a prizm pro skimmer for filtration
I've definitely escape proofed the tank, just wondering if anyone has experience with these deadly creatures?

[Todd]

My understanding is that a prizm pro is not 'escape proofed' for water let alone an octopus. I seriously hope that this is a joke.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

They have one at Big Als in Burnaby right now for 39.99.
I set up a 32 gallon tank with about 40lbs of LR with the expectation that I am going to buy this thing and house it all by itself, I'll bu using an xp1 for flow and to hide the heater and pack in some lr rubble and I will be using a prizm pro skimmer for filtration
I've definitely escape proofed the tank, just wondering if anyone has experience with these deadly creatures?

My opinion id that these creatures should be left where they belong. I think it is irresponsible for retailers to import these creatures. Conus Snails and Blue Rings are a disaster waiting to happen.

Stay away!!!

Just my opinion..........

[my2rotties]

I have no intention of ever getting such a creature, but could you possibly expand on why they are a disaster in the making? It is always great to learn about al creatures in the hobby, even if they will never make it to my tank.:biggrin:

[gobytron]

My understanding is that a prizm pro is not 'escape proofed' for water let alone an octopus. I seriously hope that this is a joke.

No joke.
what does that even mean?
anyone have anything of substance to add here?

[i have crabs]

nice knowing ya, interesting way to commit suicide i guess, make shure you have insurance

[gobytron]

My opinion id that these creatures should be left where they belong. I think it is irresponsible for retailers to import these creatures. Conus Snails and Blue Rings are a disaster waiting to happen.

Stay away!!!

Just my opinion..........

and your opinion is based on?

It's already at Big Als, someone is gonna buy it or it's dead int he water there living in one of those hamster balls thats they keep all their hard to catch stuff in now.

[gobytron]

nice knowing ya, interesting way to commit suicide i guess, make shure you have insurance

hahahaha...
lol.


too funny.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

I have no intention of ever getting such a creature, but could you possibly expand on why they are a disaster in the making? It is always great to learn about al creatures in the hobby, even if they will never make it to my tank.:biggrin:

Blue Ring Octopus.

The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_ball), but its venom is powerful enough to kill humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans). There is no known antidote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidote).
The octopus produces venom that contains tetrodotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin), 5-hydroxytryptamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-hydroxytryptamine), hyaluronidase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyaluronidase), tyramine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyramine), histamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine), tryptamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamine), octopamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopamine), taurine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine), acetylcholine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine), and dopamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine). The major neurotoxin component of blue-ringed octopus venom was originally known as maculotoxin, but was later found to be identical to tetrodotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus#cite_note-1) a neurotoxin which is also found in pufferfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pufferfish) and cone snails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_snail). Tetrodotoxin blocks sodium channels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_channels), causing motor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_system) paralysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paralysis) and sometimes respiratory arrest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_arrest) leading to cardiac arrest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrest) due to a lack of oxygen. The toxin is created by bacteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria) in the salivary glands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salivary_glands) of the octopus[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus#cite_note-2).
First aid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid) treatment is pressure on the wound and rescue breathing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_breathing). It is essential, if rescue breathing is required, that it be continued until the victim begins to breathe, which may be some hours. Hospital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital) treatment involves respiratory assistance until the toxin is washed out of the body. The symptoms vary in severity, with children being the most at risk because of their small body size. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_respiration) starts before marked cyanosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis) and hypotension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotension) develop. Victims who live through the first 24 hours generally go on to make a complete recovery.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus#cite_note-3)
It is essential that immediate and full time respiratory support be given (e.g. artificial respiration/rescue breathing) even if the victim appears not to be responding. Tetrodotoxin poisoning can result in the victim being fully aware of his/her surroundings but unable to breathe. Because of the paralysis that occurs they have no way of signalling for help or any way of indicating distress. Respiratory support, together with reassurance, until medical assistance arrives ensures that the victim will generally recover well.
The blue-ringed octopus is currently one of the most toxic known sea creatures. Another cephalopod, Pfeffer's Flamboyant Cuttlefish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeffer%27s_Flamboyant_Cuttlefish), produces a venom roughly equal in potency to that of the blue-ringed octopus.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus#cite_note-NOVA-4) Despite its small size, the blue-ringed octopus carries enough poison to kill 26 adult humans within minutes[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus#cite_note-5).

Conus Snail

The cone snails or cone shells, sometimes simply known as "cones", are the popular name for snails or snail shells in the family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_%28biology%29) Conidae, a taxonomic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linnaean_taxonomy) group of related organisms. That family contains only a single genus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus), Conus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conus), which has about 500 living species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species). Cone snails are medium-sized to large, sophisticated predatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory) sea snails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail), marine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_%28ocean%29) gastropod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastropod) mollusks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollusks).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_snail#cite_note-0)
The shells of cone snails are shaped roughly like an ice-cream cone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice-cream_cone). The narrow end of the cone shell is the anterior end, and the wide end shows the usually very low spire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spire_%28mollusc%29) of the gastropod shell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastropod_shell).
These snails hunt and immobilize prey using a modified radular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radula) tooth along with a poison gland containing neurotoxins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotoxin); this is launched out of its mouth in a harpoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon)-like action.
Cone venom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom) shows great promise as a source of new, medically important substances.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_snail#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_snail#cite_note-2)
Live cone snails should be handled with care or not handled at all, as they are capable of "stinging" humans with unpleasant results. The sting of very small cones is no worse than a bee sting, but the sting of a few of the larger species of tropical cone snails can be fatal to human beings.
The shells of cone snails are often brightly colored and intricately patterned, although in some species when the snail is still alive, this coloring is covered over with a thick periostracum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periostracum).

[Canuckgod420]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus

they are currently recognized as one of the world's most venomous animals.

[dsaundry]

Cephalopods (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ei=FJj4SaPTKJOCtgO_k4m6CQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&q=Cephalopods&spell=1); Not an ideal speciman to keep at all, but the bottom line imo is this, there are a lot of species that are not ideal to keep but a lot of people do. If you know the dangers and accept the consequences it ultimately boils down to your decision. I have not seen to many tanks that are escape proof for a cephalopod, very difficult to do, and if you have kids it is a silly creature to have in the house. Just my 2cents worth.

[michika]

They have one at Big Als in Burnaby right now for 39.99.
I set up a 32 gallon tank with about 40lbs of LR with the expectation that I am going to buy this thing and house it all by itself, I'll bu using an xp1 for flow and to hide the heater and pack in some lr rubble and I will be using a prizm pro skimmer for filtration
I've definitely escape proofed the tank, just wondering if anyone has experience with these deadly creatures?

Research & Education Fail!

Dawinian Win?

[Ron99]

Yep, don't get bitten by it. They are not overly aggressive but they are extremely poisonous. The toxin will stop your breathing within a short time and unless you get put on a respirator (which you will likely have to be kept on anywhere from a few days to a few weeks) you will die. Their toxin is one of the most potent neurotoxins known. I used to work with it and it came packed in a glass vial that was then sealed inside a foil bag which was then placed in a metal can with alot of padding. It's dangerous stuff.

Big Al's is being really irresponsible if you ask me. Blue ringed octopus in Burnaby, barracuda in Richmond. I think I will email the president of the company about this as they are not doing the hobby any favours. How about a mass email campaign to the company?

[Ron99]

Damn, Ian, you beat me to it with a much more detailed answer :-)

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Damn, Ian, you beat me to it with a much more detailed answer :-)

LOL, More like a copy and paste for me! Different answer same result!:mrgreen:

[gobytron]

well aware of how poisonous they are...
thanks for the recap though.

and what is dawinian?
I think you meant darwinian?
sounds like you yourself might want to chalk one up for ol' darwin.:idea::lol:
or maybe you could point out where I went to wrong in my set up rather than sit safely on the sidelines and point with your friends?
You guys act like I haven't read up about this animal, but I have and I am undaunted, even by this gregarious board.

Okay, so they are poisonous
anything else?

again, hopefully something beyond the herd mentality of it's too scary and nobody does it, so don't do it?

I know you're all enjoying a laugh together here but I am going to purchase this animal, The tank is and will be escape proof and I have no kids and don't plan on hand feeding, petting or interacting with this creature beyond feeding it, keeping it mentally stimulated and ensuring water quality, so if anyone can offer me some advise on how to keep it alive for as long possible (up to three years from my research) please do.

[Todd]

and what is dawinian?
I think you meant darwinian?
sounds like you yourself might want to chalk one up for ol' darwin.:idea::lol:
You guys act like I haven't read up about this animal, but I have and I am undaunted, even by this gregarious board.



Big words for someone living in vacnouver.

[KPG007]

well aware of how poisonous they are...
thanks for the recap though.

and what is dawinian?
I think you meant darwinian?
sounds like you yourself might want to chalk one up for ol' darwin.:idea::lol:
You guys act like I haven't read up about this animal, but I have and I am undaunted, even by this gregarious board.

Okay, so they are poisonous
anything else?

again, hopefully something beyond the herd mentality of it's too scary and nobody does it, so don't do it?

Spelling corrections from a guy who lives in Vacnouver.....

I think the people on here are just pointing out the extreme danger of the animal, as you have not made it clear (until your last post) that you understand them.
As for input, if you're willing to take on the risk, go for it. Let us know how it works out. Post some pics too, I'd love to see it!

[TheRealBigAL]

*edit

[Delphinus]

I sincerely hope that this is a case of mistaken identity.

I saw a bluering octopus once at a vendor when I first entered the hobby some ten years ago or so. Beautiful creatures but to be honest I would not say more so than any other small octopus species. There are so many other options available for small species of octopus that realistically offer the same enjoyment but don't pose such a serious risk of instant-death to the unsuspecting consumer. In this case I don't think it was offered for sale, it was a bycatch or whatever, one of those "it was in the box." (In this day and age, I can't believe that this sort of thing would show up as a sustitution or whatever.)

In any case, I don't think this is something that should be offered so casually as a "look what's available this week" sort of thing. IMO this species shouldn't be available.. there are others that are less dangerous and I dunno, but an octopus is octopus .. is it really necessary to have the machismo associated with keeping a bluering? I can't really understand any other reason why one would want one.

Jus my $0.02. I'm really hoping it's just a case of mistaken identity.

[gobytron]

this is really what happens when you post for advice on this board?
is everyone always this condescending?
like, who peed in your reef tanks this morning?


the Vacnouver is a joke between myself and a friend on this board btw and fyi.
but maybe I should change it now that I see how people are judged here.

[my2rotties]

Thank you for the awesome info...

[Delphinus]

You ask for advice, you get advice. Sometimes the answer isn't what you want to hear, doesn't make it condescending.

If you go for it, I wish you the best of luck with it. Heck, please post pictures, they're beautiful. But understand that this is a really silly way to underwrite such a huge risk to yourself. It's one thing to take upon the risk yourself but what of to those who visit you or live with you?

I don't see how the care of one would be any different than for any other octopus species. Just don't touch it I guess. I still don't understand the appeal, but, whatever.

[untamed]

I'm thinking about the Prism Pro....that is a hang on skimmer. You need some sort of plan that would allow the skimmer to flow into the top of the tank without the top of the tank having any opening at all. Maybe a fine mesh top that the skimmer flows through? Sounds like a salty mess in the making, however.

No answer from me...but you'll have to think that part through. Obviously, the top of the tank needs to be completely sealed. My understanding is that the octopus will squeeze through any opening smaller than it's beak. They are also strong for their size, so the top will have to be heavier than you expect so he just can't push it up/off.

I doubt you will find this a very interesting pet. It will probably hide virtually all the time. Small octopus are also not reputed to live very long...although I don't know the specifics of the blue-ring. Please share your tank build and experience (good or bad) so that others on the board can learn from your experience.

[Myka]

The equipment you have listed will make your tank octo-escapable. The blue ring octopus has a beak that is like 1/4" if I remember correctly, and an octopus can squish out any opening that is smaller than its beak. That includes going up the output of the Prizm. You need to cover the top of the tank in its entirety, and they are much stronger than they look, so they can push the top off.

Are you aware that Octos are very short-lived? Are you aware that blue rings only show their blue rings when they are startled, irritated, or stressed? They normally just look like a brown blob, and really aren't overly exciting. Why not try a different type of octo?

Do you have any pets or kids or other people living with you that could be affected? If it escapes a nosy cat or dog or kid could easily get bitten checking it out on the floor.

sphelps has a red octopus right now, and although he hasn't had it very long he may be able to provide some insight for you.

There are so many other options available for small species of octopus that realistically offer the same enjoyment but don't pose such a serious risk of instant-death to the unsuspecting consumer.

In any case, I don't think this is something that should be offered so casually as a "look what's available this week" sort of thing. IMO this species shouldn't be available.. there are others that are less dangerous and I dunno, but an octopus is octopus .. is it really necessary to have the machismo associated with keeping a bluering? I can't really understand any other reason why one would want one.

I agree 100%, especially the bolded part.

My opinion id that these creatures should be left where they belong. I think it is irresponsible for retailers to import these creatures. Conus Snails and Blue Rings are a disaster waiting to happen.

My thoughts exactly.

EDIT: :lol: untamed posted pretty much the same thing as me at the same time. Is there an echo in here?

[gobytron]

blue ring is 39.99
and they have one now.
The also have a zebra octopus, but it's 229.99.
it's not about the machismo, but thank you for the insinuation, it's actually availability and price.
I'm getting used to this type of judgment call here now though and it no longer surprises me.
And no offense, but other than the last 3 or 4 posts, what advice have I been given here?

I cut a custom acrylic lid for the 32 gallon where the prizm water falls though some tiny holes I drilled in a 2" box or rim around these tiny holes that I built up like a mini overflow box and the xp1 fits flush on both the inlet and the outlet.
I put some fine mesh on the inlet for the Prizm pro and believe it or not, this idiot believes his setup is escape proof./

[Snaz]

It's already at Big Als, someone is gonna buy it or it's dead int he water there living in one of those hamster balls thats they keep all their hard to catch stuff in now.

Buying a rare/dangerous animal "Because it's already here" is the stupiest argument.

Big Al is going to see the sale of this animal that probably has a high markup and think well this one sold, lets order five more!"

[Ron99]

My advice is don't. Don't underestimate the danger. You will have to have a completely (and I mean completely) escape proof tank and be extremely cautious. These are deadly animals in the same way rattlesnakes and cobras are deadly animals. I don't recommend people keep deadly snakes either. Tetrodotoxin is extremely potent. It takes very little to kill you. One small slip and that could be he end. If you want to take the chance that is your choice but this is advice based on actual knowledge of what that toxin can do to you. If you get bitten you better hope that you can get help within a very short period of time to start artificial respiration and possibly CPR.

The other issue is it sends the wrong message to Big Al's. They should not be selling the livestock that they do and buying it tells them it's okay to sell it. Sure, some other unsuspecting slob might just buy it but it would be much better to ask for the manager and demand that they take that animal away. Maybe call animal protection or the fisheries and wildlife department. I don't think Big Al's could get away with selling cobras so why is a blue ring octo okay? They are equally dangerous.

[Zoaelite]

You ask for advice, you get advice. Sometimes the answer isn't what you want to hear, doesn't make it condescending.

If you go for it, I wish you the best of luck with it. Heck, please post pictures, they're beautiful. But understand that this is a really silly way to underwrite such a huge risk to yourself. It's one thing to take upon the risk yourself but what of to those who visit you or live with you?

I don't see how the care of one would be any different than for any other octopus species. Just don't touch it I guess. I still don't understand the appeal, but, whatever.


Well put Tony, gobytron one of the major things you need to learn about this board is that the people here are not out to get you, were not here to put down your ideas or gang up on you and flame the crap out of you. Simply put the people on this board are just concerned for the well being of the creatures we look after and the friends we make here.

IMO getting a blue ring is an absolutely horrible idea, sealed tank or not, there's a reason that venomous reptiles are not aloud to be imported/ sold and I think that should apply to the blue ring. THERE IS NO CURE, if you get bit unless you make it to the hospital you die, simple as that. Cephalopods are Re-nound for dying in captivity and relatively fast, I know people that don't even get them home and there dead in the bag. Fundamentally your argument of "its already at the Pet store" is really flawed, if you PAY MONEY for it, the store says "wow we just made a profit on that lets bring in more deadly animals" and letting Big Als do this is as good as murdering people... If you decide to go ahead with it, good luck I would love to see some photos but you have to determine if the benefits out weigh the costs.

EDIT.
EDIT: untamed posted pretty much the same thing as me at the same time. Is there an echo in here?
Lol I think there is, in the span of 5 mins like 7 people posted page long posts of all very similar info. Eh great minds think alike?

[Myka]

sphelps' red octo was advertised at $95.99, and that's from a higher priced store since it's way out here in the middle of nowhere in Saskatchewan. You will pay too much for anything you buy at Big Al's though. Is $55 or even $190 difference worth the potential unintentional suicide that you may be inflicted with? Also, be aware that if anyone gets hurt by your blue ring that you will be held legally responsible even if that person is an intruder. I'm always surpised that stores will carry BRs since they escape so easily and have such a high risk.

[gobytron]

The equipment you have listed will make your tank octo-escapable. The blue ring octopus has a beak that is like 1/4" if I remember correctly, and an octopus can squish out any opening that is smaller than its beak. That includes going up the output of the Prizm. You need to cover the top of the tank in its entirety, and they are much stronger than they look, so they can push the top off.

Are you aware that Octos are very short-lived? Are you aware that blue rings only show their blue rings when they are startled, irritated, or stressed? They normally just look like a brown blob, and really aren't overly exciting. Why not try a different type of octo?

Do you have any pets or kids or other people living with you that could be affected? If it escapes a nosy cat or dog or kid could easily get bitten checking it out on the floor.

sphelps has a red octopus right now, and although he hasn't had it very long he may be able to provide some insight for you.



I agree 100%, especially the bolded part.



My thoughts exactly.

EDIT: :lol: untamed posted pretty much the same thing as me at the same time. Is there an echo in here?

Now who's being pretentious?

[Snaz]

What happens to the hobby when Big Al's teenage employee tries to fish this out not knowing the dangers or you make a mistake and fall over dead? The headline will be:

Exotic Deadly Octopus Kills Owner!

You can bet that will begin a firestorm of regulation along the lines of Vancouver's sweeping initiative to ban exotics. Some exotics should be banned but not non dangerous / non endangered ones.

[gobytron]

when he's pulling it out for me, I'll make sure to tell him to be careful.:mrgreen:

[Zoaelite]

when he's pulling it out for me, I'll make sure to tell him to be careful.:mrgreen:

Sorry, the toxin would paralyze your vocal cords too... Guess your out of luck.

[gobytron]

that doesn't even make sense man....
how would my vocal cords be paralyzed by the hypothetical scenario of the teenage big als employee touching the 'puss when bringing it out for me?
especially if I am telling him BEFORE he gets it?

??

[Phanman]

GL with your purchase and be sure to keep us updated on your progress with it.

[Zoaelite]

LOL, opps I thought your wrote "pulling out of me" instead of pulling it out for me. Guess that teaches me right for trying to be a smart a$$.
Levi

[Joe Reefer]

lmao, go for it gobytron. I hope the octo tank is in your bedroom. :razz:

[gobytron]

you have a weird and dirty mind Joe.
but I appreciate your support all the same.

[gobytron]

GL with your purchase and be sure to keep us updated on your progress with it.

Thank you, and I certainly will.

[christyf5]

Ok I think that covers it.

Gobytron, perhaps you might find the information you are looking for over at TONMO forums (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/). They're cephalopod based and perhaps can get across what the members of canreef are trying in a more "informative" way.

I'm not saying get lost or anything, just that I think you should hear something from those that are perhaps more experienced in keeping these kinds of animals and you're more likely to find them over there.

Good luck!