Who has used 'surge' devices and what kind?

[BlueAbyss]

Hey people, who has used and would use again, has used and did not like, or is interested in trying a surge system, and what kind?

I'm building a modified CSD for my pico (I have yet to build the tank :redface: or even order the glass :lol:) and was wondering how everyone's experience was or is?

[Delphinus]

I used a Borneman (toilet flapper) surge. My plan was to have 2 5g buckets at each end of the tank, but in the end only got around to one. The plastic chain I used to hold the float was constantly getting stuck on itself or the ball would wedge itself so it was stuck open or stuck closed a good 1/3 of the time. :lol: If I were to do it again I'd go with a square tank and larger so that it wouldn't be prone to this.

Other than that it worked well. I drilled the pipe near the outflow and put a little tube into it for letting the air escape and that cut down on the bubbles a lot.

It made a really neat "kerploosh" sound when opening. :lol:

I voted that I would do it again, but the truth is I'd give a Carlson surge an equally viable consideration as well ... without moving parts I think it would be more reliable. At least when it failed it wasn't a disaster as there was an emergency overflow but still, you want to know it's doing its thing and not just sitting there trickling away into the tank.

[Jack]

I've used the carlson devices on different sized tanks.

Pros:

- Kind of a neat way to get some flow - it's not that great
- Fun to tinker and build

Cons:

- Lots of micro-bubbles
- Loud
- Pain in the ass to make and have setup above and beside your aquarium
- Cost just as much as a powerhead, except it's a pain in the ass
- Pain in the ass
- Looks ghetto

I think you know which option I voted for.

[christyf5]

- Pain in the ass to make and have setup above and beside your aquarium
- Cost just as much as a powerhead, except it's a pain in the ass
- Pain in the ass



What are you trying to say here Jack? :razz:

[Jack]

Don't be a pain in the ass too Christy, lol. I'm just buggin' ya.

What are you trying to say here Jack? :razz:

[Jack]

Some constructive input:

It may work out on a Pico but I've never seen it done before. Has anyone? Links?

[BlueAbyss]

I've used the carlson devices on different sized tanks.

Pros:

- Kind of a neat way to get some flow - it's not that great
- Fun to tinker and build

Cons:

- Lots of micro-bubbles
- Loud
- Pain in the ass to make and have setup above and beside your aquarium
- Cost just as much as a powerhead, except it's a pain in the ass
- Pain in the ass
- Looks ghetto

I think you know which option I voted for.

Good to hear some opinions, keep 'em coming. I'll be using a CSD either way and have figured ways to deal with most of the issues with them, but it's good to hear someone's experience.

[BlueAbyss]

Some constructive input:

It may work out on a Pico but I've never seen it done before. Has anyone? Links?

Never seen it done. Actually, I haven't seen many surge systems in constant use over any great period of time, let alone on a 6 gallon pico (what I'm building). That's part of the reason I'm building it, and to test my siphon system on a small scale before I build a large system.

Sort of overkill for a pico, but it will be fun, and a lot cheaper than the planned 30 gallon :biggrin:

[Jack]

YouTube has a few videos of surge buckets in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZDqlOAQfao

This one is pretty ghetto but it gives you some ideas!

[BlueAbyss]

Yeah I've seen the videos, my system will be a little different... I'll have a surge every 4 seconds, rather than every 2 minutes.

That video is super ghetto... I'm definitely hiding everything, it's too much to have ugly piping sticking out everywhere. Part of the reason to plan for a surge system from the beginning :wink:

[steve fedyk]

You could plumb it to your tolet but, make sure you have lots of crabs to clean up the mess. :lol:

[Doug]

My turf scrubber is of course surge based. Its not a huge surge like a bucket dumping but certainly a lot quieter and very nice looking from one of the original scrubber units, which were built to look good sitting on your aquarium.

[don.ald]

My turf scrubber is of course surge based. Its not a huge surge like a bucket dumping but certainly a lot quieter and very nice looking from one of the original scrubber units, which were built to look good sitting on your aquarium.

any pics doug? sounds interesting

[Doug]

any pics doug? sounds interesting

Posted a couple here,

http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46908&page=2

The scrubber in the pic is what they look like when new and in one piece. I did buy it used from an acquaintance in the US and thats the pic he sent me when I was buying it. Mine arrived smashed to bits. Great delivery service. Without getting into it, getting any satisfaction from the delivery was hopeless.

So we built an ugly glass body for it, as was behind a wall on my tanks anyways. Worked exactly the same. I would have to go find some pics of it working on my 225g, as I no longer have them but would guess they are on the boards out there.

The screen pic is from my use. Anyways, for the surge, the screen sits on a pivot and when it fills with water, tips and dumps out the chute pictured on the scrubber. They were designed, so they could be used as the main and only filter sitting on top of something like a 120g with a halide hood in the front of it. No sump needed.

Of course they could be used in any application. including being run into a sump, but then the surge benefit is loss, which is what this thread is about. When we discussed them, back in the days, :lol:, many of us, including Eric, thought the surge could have been a lot more. I ran it with several pumps, including one that had it dumping twice/min. which made for an interesting little surge.

[BlueAbyss]

Yeah I looked into dump bucket types and understand they are really bad for salt creep? And they can have a notoriously short life span also... But for an algae filter, surge is the way to go.

Moving parts scare me :wink:

[Doug]

Yes, I agree with the moving parts. The tray dump design is very simple and basically break down and fool proof. That would be even more so if no algae was growing on the dump tray and was used just for a surge device.

[golf nut]

If you can build a valve like this, you will be able to dump large amounts of water with very little power to operate it as is the big issue with toilet flappers. even though the barrel is only an inch in diameter the hole through has the capacity of two 1 1/2 inch pipes.

[tang daddy]

My freind built a surge system that is very simple and mechanicall it can't fail have a read on this article I found which is basically what he built.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge_fig2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge.htm&usg=__mNTqc3P2OA-pGQ4z7bweLZgtI3g=&h=386&w=300&sz=9&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=cJxfu_BMio9U5M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarlson%2Bsurge%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

[golf nut]

My freind built a surge system that is very simple and mechanicall it can't fail have a read on this article I found which is basically what he built.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge_fig2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge.htm&usg=__mNTqc3P2OA-pGQ4z7bweLZgtI3g=&h=386&w=300&sz=9&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=cJxfu_BMio9U5M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarlson%2Bsurge%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den


Unfortunately it can fail, even so it is noisy and prone to salt creep and lots of air. there have been a few mods over the years but there still has to be a better way.

[BlueAbyss]

My freind built a surge system that is very simple and mechanicall it can't fail have a read on this article I found which is basically what he built.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge_fig2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge.htm&usg=__mNTqc3P2OA-pGQ4z7bweLZgtI3g=&h=386&w=300&sz=9&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=cJxfu_BMio9U5M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarlson%2Bsurge%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

This is a Carlson Surge Device... and yes, even these with no moving parts can fail. IF they get plugged. I'll be using a modified version that will take up much less space. If it works ;)

I like the idea of using a system that's not passive, but have been scared away from it because I've read that they are unreliable... I think I'll stick with the CSD and manage the bubbles.