Would you/Do you use an Algae Turf Scrubber?

[cvermeulen]

I've heard a lot of forum buzz about ATS lately and I wonder how many people have heard of them, use them, are interested in them, and so on. If anyone is interested local to me, I might consider building a few for people to try or buy.

[Marlin65]

I am interested, was thinking of building one but they need a fair bit of space.
Would like to see what you have in mind though.

[cvermeulen]

I am interested, was thinking of building one but they need a fair bit of space.
Would like to see what you have in mind though.

I'm trying to design one that uses a relatively small space. I guess it depends on the scale you're working with. Once you get into a larger tank with a stand and a sump, the scrubber can be fairly small in relation to the other filtration components. I'm running a very ghetto DIY one on my 120gal tank and it takes up a bunch of space under the tank but it could be shrunk a looong way. Like 18"x12"x6" with just an input and an output and a power cord without too much trouble, much smaller for a smaller tank.

[Phanman]

Ive actually just setup one connected tee'd off from my overflow 2 days ago. We will see how it goes.

Santa Monica has a great thread going on:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/general-reef-aquarium-discussion/35294-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything.html

[cvermeulen]

Ive actually just setup one connected tee'd off from my overflow 2 days ago. We will see how it goes.

Santa Monica has a great thread going on:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/general-reef-aquarium-discussion/35294-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything.html

SantaMonica has threads going on every major forum I'm part of (He's even got an algae scrubber forum site going actually at algaescrubber.net). I think the whole idea is interesting, and I thought I'd put some feelers into the local market. I'll be laid off work for 3 weeks over christmas, and I haven't got any contracts to build custom tanks coming up, so this might be an interesting side venture to explore if there is any interest.

[Phanman]

dont know if this money to be had making these unless your going hightech like Santamonicas self contained unit. But id think most ppl would go the cheap way and do the bucket build or in sump version.

Maybe if your unit autoscrubbed the algae off you could turn it into a profitable venture :biggrin:

The reefsanctuary thread he has, contains all of the other sites testimonies... so a nice place to see everyones DIY versions

[cvermeulen]

I cater to those who have more money than DIY inclination ;).

Also, anything I build will be slick, self contained, and have safetys built in... something a lot of the DIY builds can't say. (including my own current setup :p)

I'm a diy guy at heart, but I design products for a living. While taking nothing away from folks who don't like tools, I'd like to try to provide them with a product that's mostly only available as a DIY right now, while trying to help feed my family... and fish ;)

[ElGuappo]

heres a question do you use metal screen? wouldnt it rust?

[cvermeulen]

heres a question do you use metal screen? wouldnt it rust?

Mine uses a plastic screen.

[Phanman]

heres a question do you use metal screen? wouldnt it rust?

Dont think anyone uses metal screens. All plastic and some ppl use eggcrate

[cvermeulen]

Could get away with a 304 stainless steel screen maybe, but there's no reason to take the risk with metals. The plastic screen works very well.

[Marlin65]

304 will still rust you would have to use 316

[ElGuappo]

ya read it a little better and mostly seem to be a tank divider screen.

Going to try this i think when i set up my 25.

[Skimmerking]

Doug has one here he had it on his 170 cube a few years back. did a great job. I have been thinking about doing the ATs one for a while now. with my SPS tank... its suppose to take out Nitrates,Nitrites, Ammonia, Phoshates too... and feed your tank. So once Doug is done with his Nano SPS tank Im going to get him ove rhere to help me install one...

May be we can get DOug to chime in with his Opinion and comments about his ATS....

[mark]

the floating screen is interesting considering I have a 12x16" open area in my sump

[Doug]

Hey guys. I figured I would just post a bit now, perhaps more later. I have to go watch figure skating. :D

Lets keep the thread about turf scrubbing and not about the other threads in particular for many reasons, some that we dont need on here.

Many of us used scrubbers before they became the current do it yourself fad but apparently none of us were to bright when running our scrubbers:rolleyes:. And I will leave it at that and post later about our use of turf scrubbers, including Eric B and other pros I communicated with back then in regards to their use.

Their are some real long "good" turf scrubber threads on RC that can be searched under ATS if anyone is interested.

[cvermeulen]

Thanks for chiming in Doug. any and all discussion is welcome and of interest here of course. What my ulterior motive is though is seeking out the market for relatively inexpensive professionally built units. Reef equipment as a rule seems to be mroe expensive than necessary, so if I can be the guy to make the stuff, I can probably make it at a reasonable cost, particularly if I make a lot of them.

I was looking at HD today, at small fluorescent light fixtures, and a ~2000 lumen unit that's about 18x10x6" could be built for about $100 in materials (sans pump). This would be enough to effectively filter a 200gallon reef tank almost by itself. Miniaturizing to the nano folks would be hard, but it's a challenge I want to try if someone wants to give me a list of their requirements.

[argan]

Would you use a starter culture of algae or just allow what is already in your system to populate it?

[Doug]

3525

3526

The screen in my was fairly stiff. About 240 sq. in. Lit with two 65w power compacts @ 67k. The pic of the scrubber was when it was new. Its the 250 larger model once sold by IA.

Was designed to be a nice looking fixture, to set on your sumpless aquarium, something like a 120 and up, behind something like a Hamilton or PFO duel halide fixture hood. Thus the high price.

I suppose any screen growing algae would work fine. The dump feature of one like mine, provided the tank with a surge but more so the algae with back & forth motion and oxygen when exposed, which is suppose to make the turf a more efficient filter than submersed algaes.

It worked well when I used it, with no measurable phosphate, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, etc. I never used a phosphate removed until recently.

HOWEVER, I did run a good skimmer with it and despite whats being said on the net, never found that the scrubber could handle that size tank alone with no skimmer. I suppose in many situations with certain types of tanks it would do fine.

And again, despite whats being said, we scrapped our algae from the screen into a sink. I would say the skimmer helped with preventing water discoloration, so as much carbon was not required.

I wish I lived where I could again run a large tank and set it up as a scrubber only aquarium which would maintain species that flourish in that environment.

[argan]

I'm going to try to build one tonight. seems worth the effort now that i've seen Santamonica's designs. Also I'm going to use a SQWD to modulate the flow

[fdiddy]

My thought is why not have this come off your overflow and possibly flow into your fuge if you're running one already or into your sump. That way you can run a "T" off your overflow and be able to adjust flow into this more easily that with a pump. This would save quite a bit on power. I understand you wont get the same amount of pods or whatever, but IMO the power saved is better than pods, because they'll grow in the tank and eventually get to a healthy level anyways. Just my humble opinion.

[cvermeulen]

My thought is why not have this come off your overflow and possibly flow into your fuge if you're running one already or into your sump. That way you can run a "T" off your overflow and be able to adjust flow into this more easily that with a pump. This would save quite a bit on power. I understand you wont get the same amount of pods or whatever, but IMO the power saved is better than pods, because they'll grow in the tank and eventually get to a healthy level anyways. Just my humble opinion.

This is how mine works on my FW setup. My goal was to add it in without adding another pump - already have to run the bulbs. You could also do this on the return to the tank from your sump if you have room under your canopy, or if you can make a nice slick looking unit that doesn't look out of place sitting atop your tank.

[Delphinus]

Wow, some great reading. It's great to see this idea get some revival. I haven't really seen anyone do much with algal turf scrubbing in years. But the idea has merit. I like it. :)

cvermeulen, do I understand correctly that you are running one on your FW tank?

[cvermeulen]

cvermeulen, do I understand correctly that you are running one on your FW tank?

Yes, I am. It's doing a pretty good job too. There are a few FW success stories on MonsterFishkeepers.com as well. one fellow successfully "ungrew" algae from his whole outdoor pond with a solar powered algae screen.

My only complaint is that I removed my mech. filter bags to make room for the scrubber in my sump, and the filter floss I replaced the bags with don't do nearly as good a job... this of course is easily remedied. It's only a problem in my tank because of it's messy inhabitants.

[fdiddy]

I thought this system was a thing of the 70s and had major problems with water discoloration?

[cvermeulen]

I thought this system was a thing of the 70s and had major problems with water discoloration?

Well it's definitely not NEW technology. I haven't seen any report of water discoloration on either FW or SW applications. I'm not sure why they aren't more predominant in hobbyist aquaria. It's a similar idea to running an autotrophic denitrator with sulfur or alcohol as an energy source (as in some public aquaria). The only issue I can foresee (which is preventable !) is when you do not clean your scrubber for weeks and weeks, and the bottom layers die and begin to decay causing an ammonia spike. There are scrubber designs though that prevent this problem... and realistically can you say it's a system flaw that negiligence causes potential problems?

[BlueAbyss]

The issue with water discolouration in these systems, as seen in some older reef systems such as the Great Barrier Reef display in the Smithsonian Museum (it was actually really bad in this system from the pictures I looked at) probably stemmed from the fact that this was the only form of filtration used in these systems. I would think that used together with common technologies from today (skimmers, prodigious use of live rock, etc.) this would probably be a non-issue.

And if a little colour was noticed, you could just run some carbon.

Glad to see this idea getting some attention. Seems like a more efficient way to export nutrients than a 'fuge.

[Doug]

The issue with water discolouration in these systems, as seen in some older reef systems such as the Great Barrier Reef display in the Smithsonian Museum (it was actually really bad in this system from the pictures I looked at) probably stemmed from the fact that this was the only form of filtration used in these systems. I would think that used together with common technologies from today (skimmers, prodigious use of live rock, etc.) this would probably be a non-issue.

And if a little colour was noticed, you could just run some carbon.

Glad to see this idea getting some attention. Seems like a more efficient way to export nutrients than a 'fuge.

Well said.

[Reef_Craze]

i set one up a couple weeks back using the spray bar from a Rena canister filter. i recommend one for anybody having nitrate trouble.

[don.ald]

i set one up a couple weeks back using the spray bar from a Rena canister filter. i recommend one for anybody having nitrate trouble.

any pics or designs to share would be great:biggrin:

[RuGlu6]

What about just dropping the screen in the litted sump?

Having said that i wonder what would be the best screen material and how often i will need to clean it?
thx

[cvermeulen]

I was just looking some more into this today in terms of designing a high capacity, low profile scrubber. It looks like it would be fairly easy to build a 4" thick, 13" tall, 15" long scrubber that would efficiently dentirify a 150gallon system. Using fluorescent lights, one could do it for around $200 in materials. Using LEDs, it would be more like $300-350 in materials, but it would last longer and use less power.

I still need to spend a bit more time on the nano concept... the nice thing about the larger ones is that you can use off the shelf parts. Miniaturizing requires a lot more custom work. If there's enough market for a mini (10-30gal capable) scrubber though, it might justify doing the setup to build them.

Thoughts?

[Pan]

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=123420&highlight=disease

[baker_jeff]

I thought of building something low profile but wide, and bought the acrylic to build the box, but it was pretty hard to break a clean sheet that wide, with 1/4 acrylic. I'm now considering running a common HOB filter, with a bulkhead in the bottom to drain to a sump/bucket. The problem is then getting the water back up, what if the pump is more powerful than what is draining, can I restrict it's flow without issues? I'm just worried about keeping the draining and the pumping back to the tank even. Don't want any spills!

Jeff

[baker_jeff]

I thought of building something low profile but wide, and bought the acrylic to build the box, but it was pretty hard to break a clean sheet that wide, with 1/4 acrylic. I'm now considering running a common HOB filter, with a bulkhead in the bottom to drain to a sump/bucket. The problem is then getting the water back up, what if the pump is more powerful than what is draining, can I restrict it's flow without issues? I'm just worried about keeping the draining and the pumping back to the tank even. Don't want any spills!

Jeff

Well, I grabbed a die grinder at work today and it cuts the acrylic efficiently. Will give this box a go and see how things work out. I have limited space above my tank already, not sure what I'm going to do about lighting. I have a 24" T5 HO I could use, but it will be longer than the 18" box I'm building.