Water Filtration for the Lower Mainland

[BCOrchidGuy]

I've been using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap water purifier for a while and just wonder what everyone else does for filtration. I've tested our water and haven't detected any phosphates and I always run my water for a couple minutes before I fill my mixing tank so I shouldn't have a problem with copper etc from my pipes. I think R/O would be overkill, but what about just running my water through some carbon?

[Aquattro]

I use an RO that I got for $250. Best purchase (next to the shop vac) I've made for my tank. Not sure why you think it's overkill. I think it's much more economial than using TWP over the long run. Is what you're doing bad? Who knows? Do you have algae problems? Do you see an issue with the water?
Where do you get your water from? How far does it travel in the system? Is the system broken anywhere allowing contaminants in? Will it be broken tomorrow? Does the chlorine level maintain itself for the duration of the travel to your home? If not, is GAC going to remove biological growth?
Basically, if you're happy with your tap water and trust the distribution system, you may be OK. For $250, I know my water is just plain old water. Think of it as insurance.

[Delphinus]

Wouldn't you have an RO for your orchids already? If not, consider it a dual-return on your investment...

[BCOrchidGuy]

crap.... Okay.. I don't want to have to learn another lesson the hard way.....

Any idea what the smallest R/O unit avialable is? I've seen 10gpd at J&L but I figure I do about 5 gallons/week of w/c and a gallon a day of top up...

[BCOrchidGuy]

Delphinus, No I just use tap water for them, our water is so soft that it isn't an issue. I add fert once a month or so and thats it.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Just for clarity, a discus breeder friend of mine sent some water to Mike Reed for analysis, he says our tap water is too soft for discus, have to make it harder.... actually he said our tap water is to soft to support life.

Our water is rain water, just held in a reservoir and distributed. Last year in our drought our water actually got up to 1dGH... still no carbonates though.

[Jack]

RO unit is probably one of the best purchases I have made with my tank aswell. Listen to Brad. They are relativley cheap when you look at what you get out of it in the long run you will be happy and realize that it was well worth it.

I feel better knowing contaminants aren't going into my tank causeing algae blooms, etc. And just to be redundant I have a TDS meter ;)

[trilinearmipmap]

Can someone please explain the ins and outs of using an RO unit?

1. Do you need to buy anything else besides the RO unit and replacement media cartridges? I read something about a flush kit, what is this and how do you use it, do you need one?

2. Can you set up your RO/DI unit on a non-dedicated faucet ie. have it attached to your faucet, but be able to flip a switch and bypass the unit?

3. Do the RO/DI units generally run continuously 24/7 or do you just turn them on and off when needed? If you only use them when needed, do you have to run your water to clear the lines before each use?

4. Should you replace the cartridges on a set timetable every so many months, or after every so many gallons of water, or only when the media runs out? Is a TDS metre necessary or just useful?

5. Based on ease of use, maintenance, and cost of cartridges, and capacity of the unit, and time/gallons between cartridge changes, which unit is recommended? I see Kent as an often-mentioned brand, is this one to go with?

6. I have seen RO units for household (kitchen) use, are these OK to use as a source of water for your tank as well?

7. Are the RO/DI units easy enough to install for someone who is not a handyman?

[Old Guy]

Check out Ebay.ca. There is a guy in west van pumping RO drinking systems cheap.

[Aquattro]

Mine came with the flush kit and sink adapter. When I need water, I hook it up the the faucet and fill my jugs. Mine is a 100gpd, so it's fairly quick. I also got a TDS meter with it; you test the TDS of the output and this tells you when to change cartridges.
If you want to plumb it permanantly, this is easy also. Anyone can do it. You can hook it under your sink and add a drinking water kit. Lots of options.
Check out the AquaFX link just off to the right...lots of info. Aquariumpros.ca has the best deals (last I checked)

[BCOrchidGuy]

An R/O unit is a membrane filter to remove most "stuff" from your water. The membrane should be protected from Chlorine so a carbon filter before it is recommended. Alot of people use a De ionizing filter after the R/O unit to polish the water, most R/O units remove about 90% of the "stuff" from the water, but in doing so they produce about 5 gallons of waste water for every gallon of clean water produced.

I think you can run the R/O unit on a seperate plumbed fixture but you probably want to keep the membrane wet so don't let it dry out.

I don't know what most people do but I assume they don't run them 24/7 although I think if I was going to get an R/O unit I would plumb it into my water top off so that I wouldn't have to keep a reservois of water. Kent makes a top off valve that J & L sells for presurized systems and it sells for about $60.

I think replacement is based on gallons of water filtered, or when your TDS meter starts showing an increase of Dissolved solids (which wouldn't help me because our water has no dissolved solids).

I'm not aware of any major difference between the manufacturers so I can't comment on that.

You can buy the stuff to recharge your filter, not sure how much it is or how easy it is.

Yes they should be easy to install, I can't fore see any difficulties.

[Aquattro]

Intersting link

http://www.aquasafecanada.com/Tap%20Water%20System.htm

[BCOrchidGuy]

Thats not very encouraging. I know the water can get to a home fast, I've seen the pH of our water go from 7ish to 5.5 an hour after a heavy rainfall.... R/O unit I guess in the budget.....

[Scorpion]

do you guys know if the water an RO unit produces is safe for human consumption? i usually get my water from Safeway (tap-carbon-RO-UV) and i usually get 2 5gal jugs. since i don't have a huge tank... 10 is all i really need per week. but now... it's starting to get annoying. i was thinking about getting an RO unit for home and tank use. is this possible??

[Aquattro]

Yes, although some people speculate that if you drink several hundred gallons per day, it'll suck all the metals from your body. I drink it, my kids drink it, my dog drinks it. My cat drinks from the toilet...completely different story.
:roll:

[BCOrchidGuy]

My cats do too, go figure....

Yes RO is safe for drinking.

[Scorpion]

oh... ok... so i don't need all that other stuff like UV filtering. just carbon - RO is fine?

thanks for the info d00ds.

oh yeah... the cat (that i don't have) also drinks out of the toilet. :roll:

[BCOrchidGuy]

UV filtering is used in biologically dirty water OR and probably better in your reef tank to keep the nasties down. Unfortuneatley it also kills benneficial bacteria etc.

I am giving some thought to a UV filter run out of my sump, just to keep the parasites etc down. I figure if I just run it from the sump back into the sump it won't be a big deal as far as killing of the goodies.

[Delphinus]

My cats don't drink out of the toilet ... in fact, they seek out my RO reservoir and drink from there whenever they can... LOL (I'm not making this up ... they must be RO snobs too :lol: )

BTW, I wouldn't run a UV on a reef tank. Maybe on a fish-only or something like that. I want my reef to replicate nature as close as I can make it ... near as I can figure there aren't UV sterilizers at any of the reefs I've dived.. ;)

[Troy F]

There are some very nice reefs out there using UV. One of the nicest I've seen is Jerel/Bomber/Spanky/landescaper's Carribean biotope and it has an enourmous UV on it. Jerel's a scientist with the NOAA and says the only place you ever hear not to run a UV on a closed system is in the hobby. FWIW Tony, not much of what happens in our tanks is happening out on the real reef.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Delphinus, I could get away with out a UV sterilizer if I could just learn to STOP over feeding. When I suffered my sudden loss of all my fish I am sure that I did contribute to it at least partially by over feeding. Although my nitrates are <10ppm I still think I over feed.... but.. the fish always look hungry.

[Delphinus]

Well .. be that as it may I think that overfeeding and running UV are really two separate things. If you feel you're feeding more than your bioload can handle, have you looked into upgrading your skimming at all?

I don't really care about UV sterilizers. Use them if you want to, don't if you don't. I was really sharing just two points: one, cats don't always drink out of toilets and two, I don't run a UV on my reefs and I see no need to ever start. But it's your reef tank so you make the decision (it really, really matters not to me).

[BCOrchidGuy]

I just upgraded my skimmer and am still in awe at how much stuff is coming out of my water. Although it isn't thick, it is dark green, you can not see though the collection cup. BTW, I havent fed my tank in about a week since I lost all the fish.

As far as a UV sterilizer goes, I think in all seriousness I wouldn't get one, first off is cost, secondly I do want my refugium to supply as much food to the tank as possible. I guess even if some of the life gets killed by sheering force when it comes in contact with my pump, some will probably make it.

No doubt there are some nice reef tanks with UV sterilzers, there are some with out too. I would have to think that stocking levels and where your fish are coming from would dictate whether or not to get one. My cousing builds UV sterilizing systems for municipalities, he has said he can build me one for almost $0 if I want one... I still haven't jumped on it.... maybe for my isolation tank though.... hmmm..

[DJ88]

I drink it, my kids drink it, my dog drinks it. My cat drinks from the toilet...completely different story

Hmm I think that explains something I have been wondering for ages.. Why your cat is so normal. ;) :D

Hmm wait.. I drink RO. And my cat drinks nothing but toilet water.. Hmmmmmmm a connection there?? :D

I wouldn't run a UV on a reef tank. Maybe on a fish-only or something like that. I want my reef to replicate nature as close as I can make it

Hmm want to make it close to the real thing? Head west till you can go west no more young man..

Then drop it in the ocean. :D :D :D It's a joke ;)

That is about as close as we are going to get in this hobby to the real thing. Think about it. We use mechanical means for light, cleaning water movement. Can we recreate the water turn over? motion? As it is in the ocean? The nutrients? The Biotopes?What difference is a UV going to make. Squat. Yes they kill free flaoting organisms. But lets take a moment to ponder this. That tank Troy mentioned. Jerels. It has some of the most amazing sponges in it. And if memory serves me right ;) they filter large volumes of water daily and he has a MASSIVE UV on his system. Seems that if he can keep filter feeders alive and flourishing they can't be all that bad. I look at the whole UV debate as another one of those Myth-informations that reefkeepers are so adept at spreading. What do you REALLY know as a fact that has been tested about UV? hmmm? all that is known by hobbiests is what they freely spread amongst themselves when it comes to UV. They make a guesstimate and run with it as fact and 100% reliable knowledge. I know. I have done it.. So don't tell me you haven't. Everyone does it.. lol

I put one on my sisters tank and it is flourishing. She had a massive dino problem and shortly after the UV goes on(and before you ask no other changes were made at that time) the Dinos start taking a hike. When the day comes I set up a reef tank again. Guess what. Yup.. A UV will go on it. You shoudl see my sisters tank now. I never had the coraline grow like she is now. And she is using my old ballast, tank, sump, pumps powerheads etc. It is a great looking sysytem going there. I enjoy looking at how fast her BTA's grow and her weeds(err mushrooms Thanks Old Guy!!!! ;) :D ) are thriving and doing what they do best. Spread like the plague they are.

So I'll say it is entirely up to you if you do or don't go with a UV. What is it going to do? They have been used for years on many many systems. What is one more toy on your little world you play god with? lol

cheers,

:D :) :)

[BCOrchidGuy]

I don't want to be God... just supreme ultimate ruler would be enough... Oh.. and a small harem wouldn't hurt.... mermaids please.

[golden69_ca]

a plain ro system is ok for you to drink the water from but when you add a d-ionizing cartrige to a system it is recomended that you not drink the water becouse it is so clean and some what unstable that people have been known to have problems from drinking the water .

[Doug]

Ha Darren, whats one more toy. :lol:

FWIW, I never ran a tank in the 80,s with a UV. Those were fish only of course and I have no darn idea what the UV was doing. :lol:

[Delphinus]

We use mechanical means for light, cleaning water movement. Can we recreate the water turn over? motion? As it is in the ocean? The nutrients? The Biotopes?What difference is a UV going to make. Squat.

What an interesting argument. ;) If the difference UV is going to make is "squat" then why bother running it at all?

I suspect that's not where you're trying to go with this, though. What I think you are trying to say, is, we all have this goal of trying to replicate the natural habitat as best we can. Yes, it is likely a completely unattainable goal, but that shouldn't stop us from trying. Instead, it remains a constant challenge to be continually improving our quality of captive care. (That IS what you're trying to say, right?) ;)

So in our quest of constant improvement, we try different things, and emply different tools at our disposal.

If you think a UV will assist you towards that goal, then by all means, please use it. Do whatever you can to get there as close as you can.

But it should be for reasons like "it serves me a valuable purpose" and not something like "well person XXX is smart, and since HE runs UV, so should I." Nonono!! Our equipment we use, are the supporting players in the overall ensemble. "What you got" is not always as important as, say "how you use what you got." Am I making any sense here? What I mean is, it's up to us to do the best we can, and to make informed decisions. Simply owning the equipment, isn't enough to gurantee success.

There are nice tanks that run UV, and not-so-nice tanks that also run UV. There are nice tanks that don't, and there are tanks that aren't nice and don't run UV. The UV, in and of itself, isn't a defining criteria. Rather, it should be a tool that serves a specific purpose. I run a UV because .... it keeps dinoflagellates from blooming in my setup. I run a UV because .... it's on a hospital tank that I'm trying to cure a chronic case of ICK on. BUT .... I run a UV because ...... because my friend runs a UV and his tank is nice? Come on .... we can do better than that, and that's all I ask. ;)

cheers

[Troy F]

I don't think anyone is saying use UV because so and so has a beautiful tank. I'm not going to type a lengthy response as to the benefits of UV, I merely pointed someone in the direction if they wanted to pursue the information. I'll go a step further; do a search at www.thereeftank.com .

[BCOrchidGuy]

Interesting, Delphinus I understand what you are saying. What works on my set up may not work on yours.

Calcium reactors are a great example, in the DIY someone made a new Ca Reactor because he wasn't pleased with the results of his old one, Which a few other people have. They were questioning his results from the common Ca reactor because it didn't work that way (like his) in their system.

UV can be a good tool for some, but it can be of no use or of negative value for some as well. Research, more research lots of questions and then more research.... then.. ask the wife.. DOH.. shoulda asked her first I guess... lol

[DJ88]

What an interesting argument. If the difference UV is going to make is "squat" then why bother running it at all?


My first comment was aimed at the Recreating the ocean. We aren't going to do it. Simple as that. If you believe you can do it. You are fooling yourself.

As for the rest.

don't think anyone is saying use UV because so and so has a beautiful tank

I think Troy said it all right there.

I am saying to use one as I have had personal experience with them now. And have done a lot of reading and talking to those who have sed them as well.

[Delphinus]

You're missing my point Darren. Whether we accomplish recreating the ocean or not is not the question; the question is whether do we try or not. If we don't try, then what are we doing in this hobby in the first place? We can't just say "well I can't recreate the ocean, so why bother trying? I'm going to acclimate my clownfish to live in freshwater instead, since what difference will a little salt make? Squat." I seem to remember someone saying something about whether we strive for the minimal environment, or strive for the optimal environment. How then do you define an optimal environment? Is not the real reef the optimal environment? If you're not striving to maintain the closest thing to nature, then what are you doing??? How do you judge whether your artificial environment is closer to "optimal" or closer to "minimal?" Obviously you have to have some kind of criteria whereby you can quantify the quality of captive care. You can't just say "well you're fooling yourself if you think you can recreate the ocean" and then stop it at that. If that's how a person thinks, then that person shouldn't be in the hobby, end of debate.

All I'm saying is, if you think using a tool moves you closer to that goal according to your criteria, then you should absolutely employ that tool. But if it's just an extra "cool toy" ... then you haven't addressed the question of "what exact purpose does this widget serve?" That's the whole problem I have with this hobby: that we prescribe a set of equipment without adequately justifying each. Setting up a tank should be goal-oriented. First identify your goals, then decide what tools you will need before you set out to accomplish those goals. Don't instead go out any buy everything under the sun because so-and-so says you need this stuff first ... how many people have failed in this hobby because they went out and bought equipment that they didn't need? All because some LFS told them that's what they needed. Do we not wish to evolve beyond that?

I don't want to pick on you, but you haven't exactly provided any concrete evidence beyond the anecdotal... I don't doubt you've done your reading; far from it in fact. But if you make the claim, then the onus of proof thus rests on your shoulders. Come on, man, convince me. :)

PS. Let me be clear: if it is not clear by now, I have changed my position from "I wouldn't run UV on a reef tank" to "I would consider running UV on a reef tank if I was convinced I was adding long-term value to the quality of my captive care by killing free-floating organisms [or whatever it is that UV does]." I'm not entirely clear on why killing free-floating organisms is a good thing, and that's why I'm not letting this point drop.