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View Full Version : Kalk reactors, co2 reactors, etc.


Doug
02-26-2003, 05:53 PM
First check out my post on Michaels kalk thread, to see how we got here.

Brad, over the years and several different kinds of co2 reactors, I have never been able to get the calcium output very high. Hence my agreement with the term "alk. reactor" instead. The best I seem to get from them is just over my tanks ca levels. I have always supplemented with kalk or 2-part, which seems kind of redundant, IMO.

I have both a large co2 reactor and a large kalk reactor. One is going, so I am doing somemore research. This is besides the normal stuff, like enough evaporation for kalk use and the use of kalk ot keep ph levels higher and the common phrase "overdrive" one or the other, which I have used myself.

I know some, who use only a co2 reactor and have high ph always. :?: Of course then, there is always the concern of excessive co2, fueling an algae problem, although in my case, the effluent feed goes into the scrubber.

Skimmerking
02-26-2003, 05:57 PM
let me know there doug ifyou are getting rid of the reactor.

Aquattro
02-26-2003, 06:08 PM
Doug, when I first setup my new "Alk" reactor, I had to raise the levels with supplements (CaOH & CaCO3). I did this once the levels were stable. I find now that the reactor will actually raise the levels. Have you ever seen Sanjay's formula for tuning a reactor? Might solve some of your problems.
I turned my pH monitor off 'cause it was driving me nuts. Now I use visual queues to determine the state of the tank. You may recall when I was all panicky about my pH.... my fish and corals weren't panicking, just me. I drip the effluent into a high flow area and it seems fine. Like I said, sometimes I just add kalk for no good reason...just feel like it.
Also, as I've mentioned in a couple of other threads today, first determine what your consumption is, then determine how to replace it. A Ca reactor AND saturated kalk may be too much for your tank....do your animals use as much as you put in? Most people don't know.

BCOrchidGuy
02-26-2003, 07:25 PM
Wow this thread is just what I was hoping to find. I have a chronic low but not a problematic low pH, good Alk and my Ca keeps dropping off.
Day to day my pH reaches a high of 8.13 and a low of 8.01 my Alk sits at 11dKH and doesn't seem to move, my Ca however can get up to 400ppt for a day and then it will be back to 340-360ppt with in 24 hours. I am using only Kent Turbo Calcium as a suppliment right now. I was thinking of adding some Kalk again to my top off water. I was hoping the Kalk would help stabilize my Ca and my pH. Any comments?

Aquattro
02-26-2003, 07:34 PM
couple of comments. Your pH is just fine and I wouldn't worry about it. Really small swing and the minimum is not too low at all.
Turbo calcium is CaCl. You will get a buildup over time of chloride in your tank from using it as a constant source. It is more designed to fix a problem once.
The kalk will only maintain levels, not change them. Again, determine what your consumption rates are so you know how much to add.
I find it strange that the alk stays at 11 dKh and the Ca jumps around so much.

christyf5
02-26-2003, 07:57 PM
Brad,
Thanks for the tip on the Turbo Calcium. I had no idea it was CaCl or I wouldn't have used it. I guess I'll go back to the liquid calcium for now.


Christy :)

Aquattro
02-26-2003, 08:05 PM
Brad,
Thanks for the tip on the Turbo Calcium. I had no idea it was CaCl or I wouldn't have used it. I guess I'll go back to the liquid calcium for now.


Christy :)

Christy, for making a change in your Ca levels to correct an imbalance, turbo Ca is the best option (or road salt) but to maintain Ca, one of the other balanced methods is best.

christyf5
02-26-2003, 08:10 PM
So how about that other balanced method, the Ca reactor. Is that feasible anytime soon?? :wink:

Christy :)

Aquattro
02-26-2003, 08:33 PM
So how about that other balanced method, the Ca reactor. Is that feasible anytime soon?? :wink:

ya, ya...I'm workin' on it!!

christyf5
02-26-2003, 09:35 PM
eeeexxxxxcellent Smithers! :D

Doug
02-26-2003, 10:50 PM
I have always liked kalk because of its ability to help with phosphate removal. By using both kalk and my co2 reactor, my levels stay at around 420ppm and 12dkh. With the co2 reactor only, the alk stays but the calcium slowly drops. I dont have anywhere near the sps like you,{Brad}, but I do have several hundred pounds of coralline encrusted rock, which is a calcium sucker.

I adjust mine by following the effluent alk. Near 30dkh @ a very fast drip,{almost steady}. My ph monitor is just used to check the effluent output for changes.

Just out of curiosity, what do some of your reactors measure for effluent calcium levels?

StirCrazy
02-26-2003, 11:22 PM
I have always liked kalk because of its ability to help with phosphate removal.

I have realy noticed this benifit sence i switched to the reactor and stopped using kalk. The kalk reactor is my new priority now!

Steve

Doug
02-27-2003, 01:13 AM
Interesting observation Steve.

Also, not only does one lose that ability of kalk, but many co2 reactor media,s contain some phosphate, which is released when dissolved.

stephane
03-05-2003, 07:27 AM
Some update till my calccium reactor addittion

it's made about 3 week since I have stop my kalkwasser reactor and only use calcium reactor

my alk is now at 11dkh steady and the calcium is 420 but the PH run very very low 7.95-8.07

Everiting seem to be realy find and still grow well but to early to say one grow more than another

the biggest draw back from now is valonia I alway have them since 7-8 years but they have alway be slow grower and mostly alway covert with
coraline and small in number. I have alway let them grow as divesity but now they seem to realy speed up there grow and came big prety fast. They have also lost most coraline over them and are now shiny green and seem to be in a realy good shape :x

If valonia grow I tink any other algea could stard to grow either and Im a bit afraid to have a algea bloom even if no sign of it are in the tank right now I have the feeling someting bad is preparing :?

the bigest benefit of the cacium reactor over the kalk reactor is that it is realy trouble free set it and forget but it maybe have sone draw back that I have not yet fix and maybe the best way to solve the draw back will be to grow macro algea in the sump cause I dont have any macro in this
setup and need to find someting that will eat that CO2

stephane
03-05-2003, 07:55 AM
. With the co2 reactor only, the alk stays but the calcium slowly drops.

Doug I dont have a lot of experience with CO2 reactor but I have made a lot of reasserch ans test and my conclusion is that lowering your ph inside the reactor and slow you efluent drip will help to balance your calcium
it seem that at lower PH, the reactor disolve more calcium than carbonate in %

I dont know why but it seem to work :?: I have almost finish to botle of alkalinity test and 2 box of salifer calcium test :? to arrive to this conclusion

I will try to explane the best I can in my bad english hoping you will understand

Do some test and you will see someting realy currious take measure of your efluent KH, the drip rate in ml. perminute ,PH in the reactor and note all your reading then slow your efluent but keep the same CO2 rate your PH will drop but and your alkalinty efluent will raise but not enought to keep you level up in alaklinity

now do some calculation mutliply efluent alk x drip rate from both set adjust and you will see you add more DKH at hight PH per volum than in low PH but more calcium at low PH per volume :?:

Doug
03-05-2003, 01:31 PM
Interesting Stephane.
Thanks for sharing. Perhaps thats the reason my old duel had not problem keeping up with calcium in my other tank. I use to run it at 6.5 as compared with 6.9 on my current reactor @ a faster drip.

I do find my scrubber helps a lot in consuming any left over co2, but like you, also notice my valonia growth goes up & down, depending on the co2 reactor use.

Wondering why you shut down your kalk reactor. Seem most are running them together now. Is it just to set your co2 reactor up or a permanent shut down?

stephane
03-05-2003, 02:54 PM
I just shut it down because I want to made experience and see wath is good and wich is the more easy ans set and forget from now the calcium reactor is realy the easyer but is I have to run both.........with the calcium reactor Im wondering why pay so much to buy a calcium reactore and just not only stick with my kalk reactor :? and keep my money

Anyway it is to early to give any conclusion and this is my very first impression after spending 1000$ on it

I will not for shure get rid of my old visio kalk reactor for now and he sit
waiting to be refil :D

on ting very surprise me is how some could maintain a PH of 8.2 .8.4
with a CO2 reactor? what exacly they do to keep it that hight I realy dont know

I going in vacation next week for 2 week but when Im back I will start to dose borate hydroxide (borate acid and sodium hydroxide) It seem from some report from french reefer that this will be the secrect to keep very hight stable PH

Here are intersting tread about Borate hydroxide
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121498&highlight=borate+hydroxide

and the second part
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124155&highlight=borate+hydroxide

if you read this you will see that randy is again's the borate but never realy experience with it as much as people around but there some guy that realy use it and it realy work to fix PH at 8.3 night and day I have a a couple of friend how use it to and it realy work even habid from salifert use it and he even introduce a new test to test it and sid it seem to be an essentiel element

seachem salt already add it to ther mix in very hight quantity maybe to hight

in an article Randy recomand to use Boraxe from the grocery store but from people I have ask they said it is not the same and borate should be add in the form of borate acide with the sodium hydroxide to form barate hydroxide and not only borate how will be useless and detrimental

I keep you update

Doug
03-05-2003, 05:45 PM
Your point on just using the visio and saving the co2 money, is a good point. Thats one reason why I started the thread.

If a tanks evaporation level is not enough to allow for kalk to keep up with that tanks particular load, then another method is needed, but it seems to me if, a kalk reactor will keep levels up, then why bother with co2.

The common reasons I see, is so neither has to be overdriven to keep up. You can drive a co2 reactor harder but not a kalk reactor. A co2 reactor does give nice alk levels.

stephane
03-05-2003, 06:09 PM
If a tanks evaporation level is not enough to allow for kalk to keep up with that tanks particular load, then another method is needed, but it seems to me if, a kalk reactor will keep levels up, then why bother with co2.




The common reasons I see, is so neither has to be overdriven to keep up. You can drive a co2 reactor harder but not a kalk reactor. A co2 reactor does give nice alk levels.

from my experience in most case the more you need calcium the more you will have evaporation, cause evaporation mean hight light and hight light mean hight demand low light mean low evaporation and low demand
(in most case) also the more you have demand the more you have bioload and the more you have bioload the more you have CO2 and the more you could drive your reactor harder IMO it is an equilibrium

also nilsen have fouund a way to increase kalk by injecting CO2 maybe it coulb be a good alternative to combine CO2 this way a kalk reactor could be realy more easy to overdrive in any situation

vinegard also is a good way to increase kalk reactor but it is pain to use maybe using it with dosing pump could be another alternative

I love this hobby :roll: $$$$$$$

Canadian Man
03-06-2003, 01:04 AM
Great info guys! Thanks Stephane!

Dez
03-07-2003, 02:11 AM
I've found that since running my reactor, I too have had some unwanted algae pop up. It's frustrating. I have had my kalk reactor off line and that's when it happened. My ph is 8.3 tops and 8.03 before my lights kick it. My calcium is at 420, alk at 3.2meq/l... should I start running kalk again?

Canadian Man
03-07-2003, 04:06 AM
I've found that since running my reactor, I too have had some unwanted algae pop up. It's frustrating. I have had my kalk reactor off line and that's when it happened. My ph is 8.3 tops and 8.03 before my lights kick it. My calcium is at 420, alk at 3.2meq/l... should I start running kalk again?

Run your refugium on a reverse light cycle Dez. Give that a try

Doug
03-07-2003, 01:45 PM
The only way the kalk will help with the algae, is to allow for a smaller use of co2 in the co2 reactor, as the kalk will take up some of the load. It will also help in the removal of some phosphate.

I sometimes wonder if the RDP light cycle is all its cracked up to be. I never see any difference running my scrubber lights on RDP, which I do however. I do try to get my reactor effluent to drip as close to the scrubber feed pump as possible. As mentioned, nothing removes excess co2 like algae. Could one not run the effluent through a refugium first?

Also, I have decided to leave my co2 reactor running and just waiting on another Maxi Jet ph to arrive, to start my kalk reactor up as well.

Dez
03-07-2003, 03:07 PM
I don't have enough room to run another timer for reverse lighting, so my refugium is on my regular light cycle. I am dripping the effluent into the refugium though.....we'll see though....argh, hair algae..

Canadian Man
03-07-2003, 04:24 PM
The only way the kalk will help with the algae, is to allow for a smaller use of co2 in the co2 reactor, as the kalk will take up some of the load. It will also help in the removal of some phosphate.

I sometimes wonder if the RDP light cycle is all its cracked up to be. I never see any difference running my scrubber lights on RDP, which I do however. I do try to get my reactor effluent to drip as close to the scrubber feed pump as possible. As mentioned, nothing removes excess co2 like algae. Could one not run the effluent through a refugium first?

Also, I have decided to leave my co2 reactor running and just waiting on another Maxi Jet ph to arrive, to start my kalk reactor up as well.


I can't say Doug that one may notice a diffrence with regards to the amount of algae but I find if I don't run my refugium on reverse light I get a larger ph swing at night. My refugium is lit by a 175w halide though. so it's got some pretty intense light at night.

Come on Des You can stuff one more timer in behind that tank! :lol: :wink:

stephane
04-02-2003, 06:04 AM
Some update on the reactor

after a couple of month of use my alkalinity is very good around 13 DKH
and calcium 400 they both are realy stable BUT the PH is a realy big worry now and my grow have realy realy slow down to a point some coral
have tissue regression

the PH in the morning is 7.94 and afternoon at 8.07 I realy can't get it up

I realy begin to tink my old kalkwasser reactor was realy best ting and I realy tink I will put the CO2 reactor in the closet soon if I dont see any improvement in the healt of the reef

I have not yet star my experimentation with borate Hydroxide cause I just came back from holyday but if the borate dont bring back my PH more higher the reactor will go in the closet realy soon

Kalkwaser have alway be a succes method for me and it proove to me again new method are not alway best and sometime we should keep our old secret :mrgreen: