280g Inwall

[Delphinus]

Thanks Lance and Brian!

Brian to be honest I haven't much thought of what to do with that. Currently I have a rain barrell for RO/DI and a rubbermaid garbage can mixing SW. It's not food grade or anything so it's probably a terrible thing to use but on the other hand it has a few years worth of calcium buildup on the sides so it's really more of a calcium based tank with a plastic underlayer. I'll keep these going for now although it would be nice to switch to a glass based tank for SW mixing at some point.

Funny you've mentioned the frogs. Kien and I had to go to Atlanta together for work a couple weeks ago (we were working on the same project), to amuse ourselves in the evenings one time we went to the botanical gardens and then another day to the aquarium. Both places have nice dart frog displays and it's rekindled the interest in me in setting up a dart viv, either with some auratus or some azureus. But I've promised myself "no new projects" until this one is done (it's been embarrassingly long as it is, I can't believe how pathetic I am :( ) but I might just use it as the carrot on a stick to get this tank filled as soon as possible. How are your froggies doing these days? Any pictures you can share so we can live vicariously through the internet?

[Pescador]

I'm still using a rubbermaid can and the Lee Valley barrel myself.
As an afterthought on mine I would have run more RO lines in the wall with some kind of John Guest wall jacks.

Froggies are doing fantastic thanks I still have the same 3 leucs, only 1 orchid left but the broms and everything else grows like mad.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/Pescador58/Poison%20Dart%20Frogs/IMG_0139.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/Pescador58/Poison%20Dart%20Frogs/IMG_0105-1.jpg

[Delphinus]

That looks fantastic!! :cool:

[PoonTang]

Very nice setup so far! I cant wait to see the finished product in action.

[christyf5]

Great work Tony!! Its all coming together now! Keep up the momentum and remember, you can sleep when you're dead :razz:

[reefcanada]

It's looking very good Tony, can't wait to see it full.

[Delphinus]

Thanks Jay and Christy!

Last night's update disappeared mid-typing thanks to my bluescreening laptop (which I really need to get around to FnR'ing - format-n-reinstall - schtoopid computers). Anyhow.

No pictures this update. Last night I made the skimmer stand and put the skimmer where I thought I wanted it which was right in the center of the tank next to the return pump. Unfortunately it became evident that having it there and my frag tank on the right meant that I'd have no hope of ever getting into the sump area to replace dirty filter socks. So a few head scratching moments and a few "what about here? what about there?" moments and I think I have figured out a layout that should work. I'll slide the skimmer over the far right of the tank and have it turned 90 degree so it just drains straight into the sump (so I didn't need that 90 MPT fitting anyhow. Ooops. Oh well...). I'll have the frag tank on the left. Nice and open in that spot and it's a spot in the sump I wouldn't likely need to access on a daily basis. It does mean it's in the middle of the room, sort of, but at least there's plenty of space to workaround. The real bummer is that it also means that my plumbing for the frag tank is now pointing in the wrong direction and I'll have to either redo it, or put a "U turn" in the pipe and bring it back all the way over to the OTHER side of the tank.

Plumbing - love it and loathe it! :lol:

I am thinking at this point I am going to transfer my clowns and carpets into a temporary tank sooner than later, move them into the empty corner of the tank room (I need to start moving the tanks out of the open area in the basement, sooner or later anyhow). That leaves the semi-cube open and ready for cleaning (it needs it big-time, it's been running for about 4 or 5 years now!) and I'm thinking of plumbing it into the system sooner rather than later. This way when I do the wet test it will be a part of that and I can see what adjustments to the plan will be needed.

Trial and error for the win!

[lastlight]

Tony if you want a hand one night this week let me know and I'll pop by!

[Delphinus]

Slightly bittersweet this evening.

I finally finished the plumbing, after MUCH trial and error, and redo-ing a few things after not liking it as much as I thought I would. Funny how seeing things in person never seems to match up to my expectations of it in my imagination.

I switched the direction of the frag tank feed pipe. Unfortunately in doing so I busted the valve ($8 down the drain, oh well). Luckily I did have a spare 1" valve in my junk drawer, only thing it it's threaded over slip .. but in that same drawer of shame was a threaded to slip adapter so it's all good.

Next up was the skimmer. I think I might have mentioned already that I had originally planned on having the skimmer in the centre and the frag tank to the right, but it became evident very quickly once I got the measuring tape out that this wasn't going to work out. So on the right for the skimmer. Built a little stand for it, drilled the sump, did a few iterations on the plumbing before finally settling on a schema that I liked.

I got so excited tonight that I had to do a wet test of the skimmer, so I filled the sump partway and flipped on that Mak4 pump to see what would happen.

Unfortunately the bearings are shot. That pump turns, but it howls like a banshee. The whole house resonated with the sound. Completely unacceptable. :(

So ...... a quandary now. I was already not liking the flanges, and was having trouble finding a solution for that anyhow. Now if I have to spend money to replace a pump I'm left wondering if I'd be better off spending money and replacing the whole skimmer with something insump. Which sucks because it means I drilled the sump for nothing then, but at least that can be patched or plugged.

And that's of course ignoring the financial end of the equation.

I'm left wondering if I'd be even able to sell the skimmer. It's VERY large so the target market is probably pretty small. I see by this thread:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22453&
.. that I paid $250 or probably very close to that for the skimmer. Fast forward to today, becketts are a bit dated these days, so it's unlikely I'd be able to sell it easily and certainly won't be able to defray the cost of a new skimmer by any significant amount even if I did. :(

On the flip side, the acrylic alone is worth a mint. I'm probably better off for the moment looking for a replacement pump and dealing with the skimmer replacement question down the road, but then I'm left wondering, why do it twice. Do it once and be done with it.

Any opinions?

Here are some pictures. Looks like Shaw fixed the photoshares so I'm back to hosting these pictures at Shaw. I have to go back and fix the last batch now but I'm kinda too lazy to get the get up and go for that.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1534-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1535-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1536-0.jpg

[lockrookie]

i woulld say if it works then why change. sure there is new tech and new design but if yours does the same thing in the end why not keep it .. besides if you do an in sump skimmer you will lose precious space fro media reactors and such in future. if i could have a fish room (never happen in this house) i would use it. notto mention if you ever wanted to use ozone i think you would get more water contact on your skimmer. just my opinion tho.

but i am very jealous if i wanted a fish room id have to build a garage weather proof it and build my dream system out there. wife would never seemem again

[Snappy]

Nice to see you closing in on the final lap Tony. Let the fun begin.

[lobsterboy]

looking great Tony, cant wait to see rock and water in er.

[lastlight]

Some clean plumbing there dude the end is near. That skimmer is pretty massive. I'm still thinking you should go with a new pump or find a used one.

[fishytime]

Tony!......what are you gonna do when you finally get water in that thing???:razz:.....think we all should throw you a "Tony's tank has water in it" bash!.....

so just the skimmer pump holding you back?

[Lance]

If it was me I'd stay with the Beckett and find a pump. I love my Beckett! :biggrin:

[Rbacchiega]

OMG OMG OMG OMG....Almost time for water. I've traveled the world (literally) only to return to this thread and watch and wait

[Delphinus]

Yeah, well ... you know. It's all about the journey or something. Just be content that no matter what adventure you go off on, you can always come home and read up on the latest misadventures on how I screwed up this, or do that wrong and had to redo it, or whatever. I give you at least that constant in this ever changing wondrous world. No need to thank me. :p

To me, things still feels a long way off. The next thing will be to work on will be the lighting. The rough frame is there and the halide reflectors are mounted but I have some mods needed now to the light rack so it can hold T5's. I mistakenly bought too many Radiums (I bought two initially, then bought one in a BRS bulk order a few months ago .. then forgot I had done so and went and bought ANOTHER one in the last BRS bulk order. I was CERTAIN I was going to find strainers that I thought I had bought in that BRS box and lo and behold it was ... oh ... a Radium. Score! ... too bad I only have 3 reflectors mounted. Technically I do have 4 ballasts though ... hmmmmm. And spare reflectors in my shelf of tank junk. Man I am an amazing packrat. You'd think this latest skimmer issue wouldn't be so bad but apparently despite all the junk I have hung onto, a lot of "what I really need right now" is STILL not in amongst it all. It's really similar to shopping at Home Depot. Wow, they really are big stores full of "stuff." I marvel at the number of times I go to one and despite how big the store is and how full of it with stuff that it is, not one thing of that stuff is what I happen to be looking for at the time. But, I digress.) Point being I bought too many Radiums and not enough T5's. I have the T5 reflectors and sockets though and was hoping to buy some T5's soon but the skimmer pump thing is going to eat into my ability to purchase new T5 lamps anytime soon. Luckily I don't need the T5's to at least get working on the aquascape but I'd at least like to get the light frame all finished up before starting on that.

After that I have to sit and stare at the wall for a while until inspiration hits me for how and where to put ballasts and etc. Then I'll end up redoing it because what I imagined would be awesome is never as awesome in reality and I come up with "gee, if I had only done THIS" type things. Maybe redo it once more after that. It's a good thing I don't pay myself an hourly rate.

I also want to repaint the floor. The last 8 months of construction and concrete rework has really taken a toll. I don't mind the painting so much but the prep work and cleanup afterwards is such a drag, I've been putting off this task but it's the point I can't put it off much longer.

The skimmer thing is an unexpected expense and it comes at time when things are very lean so it's a little annoying. At the very least there though, behind the scenes it seems as if a path forward has presented itself, so we'll see how it plays out.

[Rbacchiega]

ha ha you know I'm just bustin balls (hey Jersey talk!) I can't wait for this to continue moving forward Tony...going to be fantastic. If and when I'm in town and you need a hand shoot me a text or something on facebook (gets sent right to my black berry) and I'll do what I can!

[lastlight]

Tony I know you have a fishroom but I'm really a strong supporter of cramming as much as you can above your stairs. See my ballast? :biggrin:

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/97/ballast.jpg

Next task is to run a 1/2" drain and 1/2" return from that 20 gallon tank there thru the wall. My wife has noticed I keep making the hole in the livingroom wall a little bigger as time goes on lol.

[Delphinus]

No worries "Cash" at the speed this has played out I know I'm a huge target. Seriously if I had hired myself for this work I'd have fired myself eons ago. "Holy crap! You have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE DOING, DO YOU!? Get out! Take your tools and get out! And don't even think about leaving that invoice behind I AM NOT PAYING IT!" Hey wait, I'm not getting paid for this. So there. In the fight of me vs me, I still win. Of course that also means I still lose. Weird. No matter what.. I can't actually win.

Wait. What was I talking about again? I have no idea anymore.

Brett - love it! :cool: That is sort of the idea I was thinking (maybe minus the stairs). I wasn't sure how much clearance there should be above the ballast before the ceiling and how far they have to be from the tank. I can just see the inspector coming in for final inspection (he has to look at the plugs if nothing else), seeing what I've done, and just writing a big ol' "NO." on his inspection report.

[kien]

Wow this is really coming along! very nice!

As Journey would say, Don't Stop, Believing! :-)

[StirCrazy]

good.


Unfortunately the bearings are shot. That pump turns, but it howls like a banshee. The whole house resonated with the sound. Completely unacceptable. :(



He Tony, I know where there is a Mak4 with good bearings and a bad impeller for pretty cheep :wink:

Steve

[Delphinus]

Hey Steve, thanks, I might take you up on that. Seems a shame to throw out two pumps when we can merge parts and maybe salvage one of them. Anyhow we can talk offline on that at some point perhaps.

...

Here's a quick update on things.

After spinning my wheels around about the skimmer the last little while, it looks I found a replacement skimmer. It should be arriving sometime this week and I'll save the detailed story for after when I have it in my hands. One sucky thing is it means I have to redo the overflow plumbing to gain full benefit from it but I think it will be worthwhile in the end. At any rate, stay tuned for developments on that particular story as it plays out.

So after deciding to not worry about the skimmer for now I tried getting my T5's going. The original plan here was to use 24" T5's mounted perpendicular to the tank so that they can fit between the Lumenarcs. There is room for long T5's on the outside edge of the halides for lengthwise but there are two reasons I opted for perpendicular: cheap and easily available, and also the way that long T5's would sit would have them directly over the Eurobracing, which seems like a waste of light. However that said, it's just for dusk and dawn, so who cares if one is not squeezing out every last shred of PAR out of the T5's.

But, a snag. I had bought 16 T5 sockets and 8 24" reflectors with the intent that I would drive them, at least temporarily, using a Workhorse 7 ballast I've had sitting around since the days of old. Two problems played out here: 1) WH7 isn't rated to drive 24" T5's at all, and 2) Even if it could, it's not to drive 8 lamps (I just thought I could "get away with it" if I ran the lights in series. I riveted in two 2" straps of aluminum into the light rack so that it could hold 24" t5's and starting wiring up the sockets. Well, unfortunately, ... it didn't work. Either my lamps are defunct or my ballast is defunct .. but after finding out I was trying to squeeze lemonade out of a handful of dirt anyhow, I thought .. why not look into just buying a proper retrofit kit. Why not go with 80w and be done with it.

Well, wow, 80w kits are both expensive and hard to find. Ok. So decided to shelf T5's altogether for now and just get on with things.

But, a stroke of dumb luck, or for once, being a packrat paid off. When I went my pile of equipment to find the one last ballast I had for the halides (it was a bare ballast that I had to wire up and put into a case), I found a forgotten-about 2x24w CurrentUSA Nova unit I had purchased for the sake of adding actinic to my cube tank, which I never got around to doing. The brilliant part is it fits perfectly between two reflectors and the amount of light it throws off, even if it is a little askew to one side, is perfect for a dusk/dawn effect. If I can find a second one of these somewhere, to put on the other side, I'm going to call it done.

So, yesterday was a beautiful day outside and had 2 invitations to go mountain biking, which I probably should have taken... but instead I said "this shalt be a tank project day." The family went off doing shopping and chores and I stayed home and starting to work on finishing my halide reflectors. Took a bit of fiddling with washers to act as spacers for the socket-to-reflector mount to get the lamps to sit nicely centred in the reflectors, but I got the light rack finally wired, lamps installed, and the whole dang thing back up in the ceiling.

I've been waiting a LONG time to see this:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1558-0.jpg

So what we have here is 3 Radiums. The outside two are lit by HQI ballasts, so overdriven at 430w or so, and the middle is a DIY M135 ballast (pulse-start, and slightly underdriven at 380w or so, IIRC). To be honest at this point I can't see a difference, all 3 are insanely bright to my eyes and the colour a nice shade of cool-glacier-ice-sort-of blue. But there's only been 5 minutes of run time so it will be neat to see once it's past the burn-in period.

The tank with all 3 halides on:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1560-0.jpg

Of course without context, you can't really see how insanely bright this tank is. When I took this picture I looked over to my right and looked at the cube tank. The cube tank with its single 250w just absolutely pales in comparison.

For the next two photos, of course I let the camera auto-adjust so it's hard to see the step-downs in intensity but at the same time, I'm actually really impressed with things, they are still brighter than I thought they would be.

Here's just the middle halide on:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1561-0.jpg

It's a pretty decent amount of light still.

And this was just the mind-blowing moment of the day for me yesterday. Here's a 280g tank light by only 2x24w t5:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1562-0.jpg

There's my dusk and dawn. I'm happy with it. Like I mentioned earlier if I can find a second 24" Nova unit I might throw that up there but that will be it. Any other t5's after that will be simply be icing.

And ... and ... and:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1567-0.jpg

The fill has begun. The RO/DI is a 75gpd unit so it's going to take a few days, but ... the tank is now officially wet. Happy days are here! :)

[Rbacchiega]

75 gallons per day....ha ha normally that'd be fairly quick...I vote pics at the end of each day.

[Lance]

On the first day God said: "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good.



Very good Tony, although it took you 384 days to make light your light is good!

[fishoholic]

On the first day God said: "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good.



Very good Tony, although it took you 384 days to make light your light is good!

:lol: agreed :mrgreen:

[lastlight]

MOAR

We wants moar! Congrats man I'd have called in sick for a few days to watch it fill up.

[Skimmerking]

well its about time glad that i see that i never put any money on this bet.................................



however 75 gal per day i will talk to you next year at that rate......


Adda BOY Tony

[muck]

http://oneseasonnation.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2008/11/kyle_moar.jpg

[reefcanada]

Way to go Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[saltynuts]

nice to sea! whats next ageing the water! lol

[Skimmerking]

http://oneseasonnation.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2008/11/kyle_moar.jpg Muck I didnt know that you liked leapsters games that much,,,

[saltynuts]

Muck I didnt know that you liked leapsters games that much,,,

lmao

[lobsterboy]

awesome Tony, so if it took almost two years to get water in it. How long before live rock/livestock ? :lol:

[lastlight]

You'll eat those words John. He's got my old rock and there are some sexified pieces in there.

[Delphinus]

Rock is scattered amongst various containers in the basement, some of it is wet in rubbermaids with a Seio and a heater, some of it in a 20g, and some of it dry. I am very anxious to get on with setting the rock in and starting aquascaping.

The fish are also in pretty dire need of coming out of the cube these days. It wasn't supposed to take this long. :redface:

I'm also succumbing to weakness and thinking I want to go with a little bit of sand in there. I'm not digging the styrofoam underneath too much. I thought all this time "no sand, no sand no sand no sand" but ... I dunno. I think I want some sand after all. Good for the wrasses and .. just overall looking good. Hey John do you vacuum your sand at all? 'Cuz it sure looks good. I'm going to blame you for me wanting the sandbed after all. Is that gonna be cool at all? :)

So here we are tonight after 24 hours:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1568-0.jpg

... which is interesting because I figure (72*30*8.5)/231 = 79ish gallons minus maybe say 5ish for the overflow and we get 75gpd. And it's a 75gpd RO/DI! Never thought to measure out the volume per day before. I'm pleased to learn it is what it says it is. That is with an input pressure of about 96psi (I bypassed the house's pressure regulator to get that, when I first moved in I noticed the household pressure was around 60psi and I only noticed it because my RO/DI production went wayyyyy down). Anyhow, interesting lesson learned, RO/DI likes input pressure, if you can't get good pressure invest in a good feed pump or try bypassing the regulator and seeing what you get.

Just for something different:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1529-0.jpg

I really can't wait to take the two cubes down. They both have their own set of issues, overcrowding for one, out of control caulerpa in the other (I just spent the better part of an hour pruning it out as best I can .. a weekly exercise in futility - it just comes back.) God I hate caulerpa, not only is it pervasive and invasive but it's just .. I dunno, it's nasty stuff overall, it kills corals, and it's impossible to eradicate if you don't have someone who'll eat it. Luckily I do but just in the wrong tank. Another reason I hope the transfer is not too far into the future.

[lobsterboy]

You'll eat those words John. He's got my old rock and there are some sexified pieces in there.

Dam, I knew you guys were in kahoots. maybe the build is already done, fully stocked, just slowly adding pictures.

[Delphinus]

Also as a completely irrelevant tangential aside, but because I'm compelled to share the story now that I reminded myself of it .. bypassing the household regulator was in fact my SECOND idea. The first idea I had was just to open the adjustment screw all the way. It was only the next day after when I was in the shower when I learned why my house was set to 60psi. The shower valve is just a on/off type thing that you can adjust the temperature but not the flow. Full on 96psi out of a shower head sends out these little ultrasonic speed streams of water that hurt like heck. "Ow ow ow ow ow! WTF is wrong with this shower? Ow ow ow ow ow! .... ohhhhhhh."

[lobsterboy]

If you are going open aquascaping then get some sand for sure.

if you doing a wall style, like the old berlin tanks. then maybe not sand.

I have a horseshoe crab, 6 nass snails, and a sandsfiter star, at night you can see them burrowing around, like bugs bunny in the retro cartoons.

I do help them abit at the ends of the tank. Its really worth it though.

[lastlight]

Not sure why but I actually get faster than 75 gpd out of mine. It is reading 0 tds so I don't question it.

Get a few powerheads in the tank so you can mix salt already!

[Delphinus]

Might not be quite a zen-ish as yours but I am thinking islands. Have a slightly different vision in mind but we'll see if I can translate concept into reality, I'm not very artistic.

A horseshoe crab?! Wow. I always thought they were something of a no-no but now that I think of it, I have no idea why. Maybe for fear they'll knock things over? I don't really know much about their captive care.

Ever thought about tiger tail cukes? I had some for a while but it occurs to me it's been a lonnggg time since I seen any, maybe they kicked off some time ago and I just never noticed. They did a pretty good job of pooping out clean sand though.

[Delphinus]

Not sure why but I actually get faster than 75 gpd out of mine. It is reading 0 tds so I don't question it.

Get a few powerheads in the tank so you can mix salt already!

That's not a bad idea ... hmmmm. Tomorrow!

Maybe your RO/DI is 100gpd membrane? Or you have higher inlet pressure? You're right, with a TDS of zero .., just run with it and be happy. :) I'm getting zero right now but it's all new prefilters and new DI. The RO is outputting steady at around 7. Not the best membrane I ever owned, the one before this one had a much better rejection rate or whatever the term is, it was almost always zero except for the first half hour or so. My DI lasted much longer on that membrane .. until the membrane went that is.

[lobsterboy]

Might not be quite a zen-ish as yours but I am thinking islands. Have a slightly different vision in mind but we'll see if I can translate concept into reality, I'm not very artistic.

A horseshoe crab?! Wow. I always thought they were something of a no-no but now that I think of it, I have no idea why. Maybe for fear they'll knock things over? I don't really know much about their captive care.

Ever thought about tiger tail cukes? I had some for a while but it occurs to me it's been a lonnggg time since I seen any, maybe they kicked off some time ago and I just never noticed. They did a pretty good job of pooping out clean sand though.

ok, if your doing island or bommies then go for the sand.

I am using the aragamax select. its not too big and not too small.

the horseshoe crab do get large, 24in large, but i think that it will take sometime to get that big, I have had him since the start of the tank and i barely see him. I wish for one of those donkey cucumbers, i think he would do a great job. Didnt see any around though for along time.

[lastlight]

I use the Dow Filmtec 75 gpd. And yeah used to get me 0 - 1 TDS out of the membrane only but these days 5-6 for 5g fills...can drop lower if I'm running it longer.

[andestang]

Wow have I missed alot lately ! Its really great to see how much you have accomplished. Everything is looking awesome. I remember that skimmer of Johnathon's, she is a beast but worked well. Have you seen or heard from him lately ? On the sand topic I'm glad you decided to add some. With a large tank I think it looks so much better and allows you to go with a much more open arrangement (like Johns). Keep up the good work.

[Parker]

Looks great Tony, I really admire your attention to detail!

[StirCrazy]

That's not a bad idea ... hmmmm. Tomorrow!

Maybe your RO/DI is 100gpd membrane? Or you have higher inlet pressure? You're right, with a TDS of zero .., just run with it and be happy. :) I'm getting zero right now but it's all new prefilters and new DI. The RO is outputting steady at around 7. Not the best membrane I ever owned, the one before this one had a much better rejection rate or whatever the term is, it was almost always zero except for the first half hour or so. My DI lasted much longer on that membrane .. until the membrane went that is.


If it is a good and properly labled membrain ie. a Dow filmtec TW30-1812-75 it is 75GPD @ 50 PSI. at 90 PSI it should give you about 130 GPD. the max operating PSI is 300PSI on the dows and I think you can get about 170GPD out of that one @ 100 PSI

these numbers are for 75 degree water temp, so you won't get that much as I doubt your tap water is 75 degrees. for example the 75gpd membrain only puts out 50gpd at 60 degree water.

Steve

[globaldesigns]

It's Alive, It is ALIVE!!!

Yipeee, glad to see things moving along now...

[untamed]

I've got lots of cukes because the donkey dungs seem to be able to reproduce in my system. Sadly, I'm too far away to help you.

[lobsterboy]

I've got lots of cukes because the donkey dungs seem to be able to reproduce in my system. Sadly, I'm too far away to help you.

:sad:

[Delphinus]

"Donkey dung" = "tiger tail" cuke? If so doesn't J&L pretty much have them more or less all the time, or at least on a regular basis? I bought my last few from them, just emailed them and they had some. If you're OK with waiting a few weeks John we could pool an order maybe?

Thanks for the comments all. Tonight the tank is 2/3 full. I thought I had until maybe Thursday morning before it will start spilling over into the sump but I'm thinking it will be about this time tomorrow now. I better vacuum out the sump. Also tomorrow night if all goes well I should have a new skimmer to plumb in too. W00t w00t!!

[lobsterboy]

"Donkey dung" = "tiger tail" cuke? If so doesn't J&L pretty much have them more or less all the time, or at least on a regular basis? I bought my last few from them, just emailed them and they had some. If you're OK with waiting a few weeks John we could pool an order maybe?

Thanks for the comments all. Tonight the tank is 2/3 full. I thought I had until maybe Thursday morning before it will start spilling over into the sump but I'm thinking it will be about this time tomorrow now. I better vacuum out the sump. Also tomorrow night if all goes well I should have a new skimmer to plumb in too. W00t w00t!!

Pm'd

[Delphinus]

Bittersweet update tonight in the most literal sense of the word I can think of.

First, the good news. Tonight, special delivery via BC (thanks once again Chin :cool: you can't imagine how happy I am with this new toy!!):

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1571-0.jpg


Unfortunately that's not all that's happened today. At the 11th hour, ie.:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1572-0.jpg

This:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1574-0.jpg

So with water not 2 inches from the overflow point.. I decided before it starting spilling into the sump that it would be a good idea to pull the sump out and silicone around the stand to contain floods to the tank room in the eventuality water gets onto the floor. Ya know it's gonna happen sooner or later. The bonus for this would be that it would be easier to clean the sump outside of the stand.

So, siliconed the stand around the edges, cleaned the sump, maneuvered it back into place, and .... pop. The arrows and the dotted line show the extent of it, it goes from the top, down 2/3 of the way into the first baffle space, does a 90 degree bend and then back into the first chamber down to the bottom. Stellar maneuvering there of the sump Tony. :(

It had been a few weeks since I had a good swearing session over a tank build development ... trust me the streak is over. And the RO/DI shut off. In the words of Kevin Kline in "A Fish Called Wanda" - "I'm just a little *disappointed*."

Thought about patching it but .. I dunno. My old 75g had a sump that I cracked too, and I lived with a patch. It looked so ghetto. I'm going to price out an entire panel tomorrow and a patch piece and decide from there. I may just elect to replace the whole thing. Other than the silicone on the seams and baffles it would be a straightforward thing to do, it just means I have to wait though some more before I can test my return pump plumbing. ARGH!

[lobsterboy]

ahh thats brutal man, sooo close.

hurry up and replace it, so you can get on with this, haha.

[Delphinus]

Yeah, boy am I annoyed at myself. Although I was SORT OF trying to be careful with the nudging it back into place, so maybe it was gonna happen no matter what.

"D'OH!"

[lobsterboy]

ya know i was thinking about moving my sump as well, I wanted to re arrange the equipment, but after seeing that. I think i am going to stay put.

I have some pieces of glass here if you were thinking of patching it.

[Delphinus]

Might take you up on that, thanks man - I'll make some calls in the morning and see what I'm up against. It might be better to pull it out and replace the panel anyhow just on account then I can replace the styrofoam it's sitting on too, it's gotten a bit cracked and squished in places. On a totally unrelated note you should see what happens to styrofoam and a concrete floor paint if you happen to spill almost an entire PVC primer can. But we'll see. If it's gonna take a long time to procure a new panel or if it's too spendy then a-patchin' I will go.

[lastlight]

Tony if I recall that sump tank is very large and ALSO made of very thin glass right? Shoot that sucks. I had to stare at the pic a few moments before I clued into what had happened. Brutal man but I'd replace the panel to be safe.

[lobsterboy]

I'd replace the panel to be safe.

yeah Brett;s right, its probably safer to replace it.

and if you waited this long, another week or two isnt so bad.

[fishytime]

that sucks Tony!.....didnt realize you were getting soooo close to getting this bad boy going.....

[Lance]

:sad:

[Rbacchiega]

oh man! that sucks so bad!.....but maybe, juuuuust maybe...all this hassle before will mean things go a tad easier in the long run. I hope. Cruddy deal there Tony.

[michika]

I'm cleaning out our basement and organizing everything fish related this weekend. What size glass do you need? I might just have a piece you can help take off my hands.

[fishoholic]

http://ironicsurrealism.blogivists.com/files/2009/10/homer-simpson-doh.gif


Sorry to hear that, that really sucks :sad:

[Delphinus]

On the bright side at least it's not a complete showstopper. While it does mean I have to stop filling for the moment, at least in the meantime I can get to work on powerhead placement, wavebox placement, and flow tuning ... as well as work on getting the electrical plugs all sort of tidied up and so on. Plenty things to work on it seems!

I can also take the opportunity to redo the overflow plumbing to account for a gravity feed for the skimmer. The only thing that I wonder about this is if I run a frag tank, as is the plan, then water entering the frag tank drains into the sump completely bypassing the skimmer. Water would have to re-enter the display tank, work its way through there and only then drain into the skimmer. So it's as if to make the display tank skimmed really effectively/efficiently, I have to make the frag tank skimmed really ineffectively/inefficiently. The flip side to this is that frag tank is only 40g and presumably only houses corals or some small fish and the display tank is going to have the heavy poopers, so maybe this is a negligible concern.

Two alternatives that I can see at this point are:

1) "T" the drain pipes from the frag tank and the main display together, and then route into the skimmer.
Pros: Both tanks get skimmed the same, cheap use of an available resource (gravity)
Cons: The skimmer has a 1" input. I have doubts that at only 5' of head pressure or thereabouts that this is enough "push" through the restriction to get enough gph through the skimmer. Also if the two drains are connected together then there is a risk that the frag tank, which sits lower than the main display, is at risk by sitting in the "flood plain" should anything cause a blockage in the skimmer, or even just a backpressure buildup, and water goes downhill and so could easily end up in the frag tank and overflow. There is an emergency overflow on the frag tank (it will be a Herbie overflow as well) but in that case it's only 1" and I think a 280g draining is too much for a 1" pipe. Hmmm I might have just convinced myself this option is a no-go.

2) Use a pump feed in the sump.
Pros: Easy and quick solution. No pipe rework. Both tanks have "equal-ish" access to the same level of skimming. No worries of one tank causing a flood in the other.
Cons: More up front cost (purchase a pump), more electrical cost

However ... "Corollary pro": The sump is already drilled for a pump. I have a Mak4 pump that has a good impeller but a shot bearing, Stircrazy has a Mak4 pump with a good bearing but a shot impeller. Perhaps the writing is on the wall here, I just have to convince myself that I'm ok with the costs and move on with things.

As for the glass, I've started looking around. So far the best option for purchase is Bow Valley. You could hear their disapproval in their voice about the size and thickness of glass, and I suppose I could take the opportunity to bump up the thickness now, but it seems to me just wasted money if I'm not replacing all 3 sides of the sump. That said, maybe I should see what it would cost to go to 8mm, leave it at that, if ever another side breaks then I bump that panel up to 8mm and so on and so on. The best part about BVA though besides being the flat-out most economical vendor, they'll do it while I wait. Everyone else I've talked to so far is all "it could take up to a week".

@Michika - thanks - if you wanted to check your basement or something, what I need is 60"x18". What's on there now is 6mm. So anything that thickness or larger. I'm kind of thinking it's a long shot you have anything like that, so no worries if you don't, but for sure, for now I'll hold off visiting BVA until I hear back from you.

[Delphinus]

I am fall-over-tired but a couple footnotes to end the week..

1) HUGE shout out of thanks to reefcanada/Jay for getting me some replacement glass for the sump. I'll try to take pictures of the fiasco/debauchery tomorrow as I try to replace the broken panel. In the end I went with Jay because he could also set me up with a panel so I can make an overflow for the 40g breeder I'm going to use as a temporary home for my carpets and clowns.

2) Gonna go for a pump feed for the skimmer for now. Easiest path forward with hopefully more benefits than pitfalls. I can always change things around down the road.

3) Got the Tunzes going in the main tank. Have two 6100's on Wavysea's sweeping back and forth and a wavebox. The wave is insane, almost 2". I'm worried that this is too much for my overflow so I'm anxious to get the sump repaired so I can try a proper flow test. Hopefully once the tank is aquascaped the wave will be less dramatic but in a worst case scenario I'm going to have to consider replacing the overflow with a shorter equivalent (or opting to do without a wavebox I suppose would be another option. That one doesn't appeal to me very much though.) Hopefully it will work out and I'm worrying for nothing haha. Time will tell on that.

I'll try to get some pictures and/or videos of the flow as it stands right now. I absolutely hated the effect at first when I had the 6100's on pulsing mode, but when they're just on full-bore all the time, it's actually a pretty keen effect. Guess I didn't need that multicontroller then (although I guess it's still handy to have the feed mode button if nothing else).

Although it's a good start, I'm not convinced it's enough for the long term however. I admit I'm looking at Coleus's Tunzes for sale thread and wondering how I can sneak a couple more Tunze's worth of balance onto my line of credit without getting a divorce haha. Those 3 ones from Pazil were gone so fast too. I looked at that this morning and but before I could even think in my head "I wonder if ....", they were gone. Haha someone's quick on the draw! :)

4) One of my Tunzes has these little impeller spasms when it's on feed mode. Every 10 to 20 seconds it does this quarter turn. I wonder if it's on purpose, ie., if it's to scare away fish who might be curious enough to poke their head into the now-not-spinning propeller housing. If that's the case then that's a good idea but what's weird is that only 1 of the pair do this. Does anyone know?

[Delphinus]

Am starting to feel full-on FML with things.

Removing the broken glass has been a fairly miserable experience. I ended up chipping a spot in the right hand wall in the process. It's above the waterline so I think a generous dollop of silicone will suffice to fix it but still, darn it all to that. I ended up pretty much having to smash the glass to smithereens in the end and even still I was at it for a couple hours. The 6mm glass is surprisingly resilient against hammer strikes.

I've been having problems with the Tunzes too. I bought one used a few years ago and then I bought one new but it was before the newer style 6105's were out, they are the old style 6100 outboards. They were in use on my cube tank for a couple years when that tank's sole purpose was a dedicated species tank for my H. magnifica anemone. When I sold the anemone I cleaned the Tunzes and put them into storage so that while the cube tank limped along as a holding tank for all my livestock that came out of my 75g when I shut it down, I just used some relatively inexpensive Sunsun powerheads (looks like a dual small new-style Tunze but doubled up).

Putting these Tunzes on a Wavysea is something I've been wanting to see in action for a long long time. Now that they are on (albeit in a partially, but mostly filled tank in just FW), they're having problems. They're perfectly clean but it seems that they jam. The newer one uses a 7420.27 driver and the older one uses a 7420.26 driver. Whichever pump is on the older 7420.26 will occasionally just stop spinning and then the jam alarm sounds. It scares the heck out of you when you're working downstairs alone at 1am and you're not expecting it. Switching the pump drivers and the problem seems to follow the driver and not the pump.

Unfortunately, Roger Vitko of Tunze USA had this to say about things:
The drivers are no longer made and have been out of stock since February. They cannot be repaired. Your assessment may be correct but the 7240.270 driver was stronger, it was made to support the wavebox and 6200 and its development coincided with those pumps which needed a higher starting power. My guess is that the pumps are partially jammed or the drive units are worn past the optimal point and that it is not a bad driver, it is just the 7240.270 can produce more power to overcome the higher drag of worn or dirty drive units. 7240.270 came out in late 2004 so we have to assume at least the older pump was made before late 2004 and if the drive unit is still original it is past due for replacement, 6100.700 may solve the problem.

I might as well start off by trying a replacement drive unit. At least the cost isn't terribly prohibitive and I suppose maybe I'm due for a change in fortune at some point so it's worth a try. If it works out it beats buying a whole new Tunze or a Vortech. If it doesn't work, well, at least it doesn't change the outlook. But if I am looking at a whole unit replacement then the tank startup is pushed back months. I don't think my fish in the 110 can wait that long so if it comes to that I may be faced with some decisions. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Since I'm on the topic .. Just given the way things work out I am totally expecting to find out that the wavebox as well will not work out on this tank. BVA built the overflow so high up that there is only about 3/4" at the top of the overflow and I'm pretty sure this won't be enough to handle the wave action. On an empty tank I can produce a 2" wave. The effect is great to watch but the way things have been going on this tank, every bloody step of the way .... there's really no reason at this point to expect that this will just sort itself out happily.

On a brighter note, Jay is coming over tonight to help me finish rebuilding my sump. I appreciate the help dude, I'll be in your debt.

[lastlight]

I understand your frustrations man that's a lot of kicks to the junk. Unfortunately Roger really knows his stuff so he might be right. I felt a similr worry when I had my BK sitting around for a year or whatever it was. Heck I never was able to turn on my Sfiligoi until I had enough money to buy bulbs which was months later. In your case so much more time has passed and it's such a burn. Hope things work out somehow for you. I can stop by and maybe paddle the water with my hands for a few hours while we shoot the reef talk if that helps :wink:

[andestang]

My god Tony, WTH. I hope things do start turning around for you. You did make me laugh though with this and the thought of you in the wee hours. Sorry to laugh at your expense :) .

The 6mm glass is surprisingly resilient against hammer strikes.

[lastlight]

Sorry to laugh at your expense :) .

You should be sorrier for not getting on a build thread of your own. I miss my baby. hang her from the ceiling and snap me a few pics man!

[andestang]

I do have one http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64747 , just in dragging on mode :) Pic's of the lights may be added soon just for you Brett :lol:

You should be sorrier for not getting on a build thread of your own. I miss my baby. hang her from the ceiling and snap me a few pics man!

[Lance]

Oh for God's sake Tony! I think you've had enough bad luck. Just stop it right now!

[dave_C]

If you still need the piece of glass I think I have some 10 mm laying around I could cut to fit for you:wink: it's yours if you want

[Delphinus]

Aw nuts, thanks for the offer, but yeah I already got a piece cut. Thanks anyhow!!

[lastlight]

How'd the repair go tonight man?

[Delphinus]

My new sump!

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1575-0.jpg

[kien]

Wow I really like your low profile approach. Are you thinking about dropping your tank? You know, so you can sit down cross legged in a meditative pose and see the fish at eye level! :)

[Delphinus]

:lol: I guess it's still something of a work in progress.

It, .. um .. didn't quite go as optimally as it could have tonight. Remember how I said I had spilled PVC primer and was worried what the styrofoam looked like? It turns out it was pretty nasty. So it had to be replaced. Ran over to HD, picked up a piece of new foam and so we rotated it 90 degrees to get the old one off. When rocking it back onto the new foam, the skimmer feed pipe valve handle thing hit the ground and poof, the front panel was done for.

So .. yeah Brett you totally called it, the bulkheads were gonna be the end of the sump as it was.

Jay's going to cut a new piece, I think we'll step it up to 10mm since the front still needs to be drilled for the sump return pump ... I might as well leave the skimmer feed hole undrilled and figure out a different way - yet again - of feeding the skimmer. I'm sort of back to going to an overflow fed system but maybe T'd off somehow so it is only a partial diversion into the skimmer.

So, given that this "good deal" of a sump I originally bought is turning somewhat into the six-million-dollar man .. er, I mean sump ... ,,,, at least it should emerge from all of this as better, stronger, faster. :lol:

Steve Austin, astronaut. A man barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.I'm totally naming my sump Steve from now on.

[reefcanada]

I am so sorry for that again Tony, I will see you and Steve on Thursday.

[lastlight]

Doh! I wish I'd been wrong about that. I'm saying a few reefPrayers for you man. You're pretty damn close now. Is the tank salty? I can't recall now.

[Delphinus]

No salt. I can't even really get at the tank at all at the moment since there's a pile of glass in the way. I figure it will be at least a week after the silicone is applied before I even attempt to continue filling or start mixing or aquascaping.

I might focus on getting the 40g built up and the carpet tank inhabitants moved over to their temp home and start cleaning up the semi-cube and plumbing that in. (Once the sump is reassembled and slid back under the stand, that is.)

[fishytime]

Dude!......maybe all this lighting fast progress lately is a bad thing:razz:.....kidding aside Tony, sorry for your run o bad luck:neutral:

[Delphinus]

Thanks dood! It's ok. I was pretty bummed about things but .. meh, what can you do. If there is a silver lining, if things were gonna fail like this it's better that they do so now and not once the tank is running. So ... maybe it's not so "bad luck"-ish if one looks at it that way.

[lockrookie]

if it makes you feel better i broke my overflow twice in one month even better in less than 3 weeks once was the back anel of the overflow lifting it thesecond the bottom panel. i think when it comes to builds you have to take the mentality of "thank god it wasnt the main display glass" cause things could be worse.
even with all your mishaps you still have one rocking tank that in the end will be the envy of the neighbourhood. well im envious anyways :)

[globaldesigns]

Wow, don't come on for a few days or so and **** hits the fan!!!! Tony, sorry to hear of all the problems. Hey, since I am only 5 minutes away, if you need any help cleaning up, or holding glass, just give me a shout.

[Delphinus]

Thanks Rick, I appreciate that. There's lots left to do so I'll probably call out at some point!

...

Ladies and Gentlemen ... and Canreefers .... I present to you ... STEVE:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1576-0.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA

Thank you Jay for being the "virtual Oscar" and rebuilding Steve... :mrgreen:

[kien]

ooo! That is one sexy sump!

[lastlight]

He's so BIG and STRONG...

*sigh*

Rock on man. We're BACK on track. Easy when you move that please.

[lobsterboy]

ooolala :cheer2:

[Red Coral Aquariums]

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1576-0.jpg



Good to see your back on track Tony.

You know your sump is more baffled than I am.

Kevin

[reefcanada]

Your welcome Tony. If you NEED a hand moving it back into place, you know where to find me. This is going to be one sweet tank. I want to see that skimmer working, that thing is a beast.

[lastlight]

I'll let Jay help with the moving. When I picked up my sump and tank from Jay I chipped the sump moving it and cracked the corner of the tank out. I've got a way with glass.

[Rbacchiega]

When I saw the new picture of the sump I said, out loud, "Steve is seeeexxxay"....and my guy heard me. It made for an interesting conversation.

BUT! Glad to see you back on track....I'll be back in cowtown mid novemer till probably end of January....must do pho and beverages....but if when I'm in town you need a hand with anything let me know.

[Lance]

Nice job Tony. Sump looks great.

[andestang]

Looks great Tony, good to see you got this done in good time. I see Steve is well hung - his sock holder that is - never mind :rolleyes: So just how much is new glass is there now ?

[Delphinus]

I can't really claim any credit. "I watched it getting built ... all by myself!" Well Ok I guess I did clean the glass and stuff the night before. You can totally tell the order the glass panels got cleaned. The bottom is all sparkly and the right hand side is. Then the left hand side is a little less sparkly, and then the baffles are less and less clean. The last one is just a razor blade width of clean-ness around the edges and all coralined up in the middle still. :lol:

I would have tried to offer a hand but I couldn't quite arrange for the whole family to get out of the house while reefcanada came over. I had on Tuesday, Nathan my 5 year old has swimming lessons and Linda took him to that and took Sean along (2.5 year old). Unfortunately that was a card that could only be played once. Thursday night was swimming lessons night again but this time Sean had to stay home. I can't imagine why - how odd.

@Randi - :lol: Sorry. That's great, now some guy who runs a tattoo shop ("shoppe"? "shop"?) in Jersey thinks I'm loopy. My master plan is well underway <twiddle> <twiddle>

Pho sounds awesome!

[Delphinus]

Looks great Tony, good to see you got this done in good time. I see Steve is well hung - his sock holder that is - never mind :rolleyes: So just how much is new glass is there now ?

:lol: Who could have foreseen talk of a sump named Steve could lead to this direction?! I think I blame Doug. And Laurie. Anyone but myself at any rate. :lol:

So, original pieces are the bottom and left and right panels. The short baffles are old but the tall ones are new. Instead of propping them up on something and waiting for the silicone to set, they are grooved out at the bottom so that there is still corner attachments at the bottom. So it's easily almost 50% new glass now. Plus the front is 10mm so hopefully there will be some enhanced structural integrity around the bulkheads compared to before.

Before it had two sets of baffles, now it's just the one. The larger chamber will lend itself better to water changes, I think. I'm trying to scheme up a method where I can use the skimmer feed hole for draining and maybe marking up the sides with gallonage ticks.

[lastlight]

maybe marking up the sides with gallonage ticks.

Tony don't press too hard with that sharpie. To quote Randi: "just sayin'" :mrgreen:

[Delphinus]

:lol:

[Rbacchiega]

I like how "just sayin" is my theme...people here even make fun of me for it...didn't think I said it THAT much...but maybe I do. Herm.

[lastlight]

Well there's always bazinga...just sayin'.

[Rbacchiega]

bazinga, just sayin, bangerang...those seem to be my three favorite thingermajigs....oh, that's one too....

[lastlight]

I'll be honest and say I was saving them up in a text file and I was gonna unload all of them in some random post down the road and see if you noticed. I just got lazy.

This tank is gonna be bangerangin'. I do that right?

[Rbacchiega]

not bangerangin'...that's just silly.

This tank is going to be bangerang

[Zoaelite]

That sump looks amazing Tony, Jay did an absolutely bang on job (But then again I don't think Jay knows how to do bad glass work:lol:). Can't wait to see this beast full of water!

Think you will be running Biopellets with the new one? Apparently there has been some big argument over at reefcentral about them bleaching coral. I just upgraded the pump on mine and added a new bag, no ill effects yet.

[Delphinus]

I don't know. I might on a supplemental basis because I think the mulm is good coral food (well, if the overabundance of feather dusters at my reactors output is any indication). As far as the bleaching goes though .. I can throw my name into the hat that it has happened to me too. On the big cube, the fish load is enormous and the pellets seem to keep the nutrients at bay. On the small semi-cube though, the nutrient load was always light on account of an overabundance of caulerpa that aggressively strips the water of NO3 and probably PO4. I had hoped that the pellets would starve it out because I've been fighting the caulerpa for months and it's a total losing proposition. The pellets starved out my chaeto on the big tank but the caulerpa's mojo is stronger apparently. Anyhow long story short I got bleaching in that tank. All my Acan's, my two carpets (my purple carpet is now a white carpet - pure white :( ), and a green bubble all showed signs of bleaching and have there's been no recovery of colour in the 3 or so months since it started. I should take the pellets offline on that tank to see if it changes anything but I'm a little afraid to just take them off cold turkey. At this point I'm hoping that I can just move everyone into the big tank soon and it will be a turning point.

I suspect the problem is running pellets on a system where the nutrient load is already somewhat low. In my big tank it's pretty high so it's got something to do, in the small tank I guess the pellets get bored and start looking for trouble or something. Just my uneducated theory. Stupid caulerpa. I have to prune it every 2-3 days. I'd move rock into the big tank and let the tangs and rabbit go at it but the butterflies might pick at the other things I don't want to lose.

I did keep all the equipment from Zeo when I ran it before. I'm contemplating doing so again with this tank, especially after seeing John and Dez's tanks on it.

Haven't really though much more of it for now. Any thoughts on this yourself? Would love to hear. Unfortunately I have not a lot of time these days so I only go onto RC every so often to check up on some of my favourite threads there, and as such I miss a lot of good info.

[andestang]

I was running Zeo for a couple of years with moderate success and then I decided to try the pellets. After just under 2 months I had a large Digi and a couple Acro's bleach out and have a few others thats are showing signs of trouble. Like you I don't want to just disconnect it all of sudden. I also cannot say or prove it is the reason for the bleaching, but up to that point I've had no issues. Be interesting to here results from a newly started tank, but to be discussed in another thread. Have you read up on the Zeo 14 day start up cycle ?

[Delphinus]

I think so but it was a couple years ago so I don't remember much of it, I should look for it again (got a link handy? I'll look for it too though). I remember Albert was a fairly strong proponent of Zeo and I remember him saying you could add livestock to a tank at 2 weeks on a zeo system. I'd be a little concerned that the bacterial cultures would be all in the zeolites and not the rock especially when starting from dry rock (or at least a 50/50 mixture of dry rock) although I imagine over time a bacterial film should develop over the substrate anyhow..

[lastlight]

ZEOVIT SUCKS.

Just fishing for dao. Any minute now...

[lastlight]

Hmmm didn't work.

HALO REACH > STARCRAFT

[muck]

Anyone up for badminton or Karaoke? :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[andestang]

playing online poker :)

[Delphinus]

This it, Mike? http://www.korallen-zucht.de/en/service/initial-cycle-just-14-days/

It sounds pretty neat but man adding fish at day 10 without checking things like nitrite beforehand seems kinda brave ... I suppose there's no harm in checking nitrite and adjusting the schedule accordingly if the reading is non-zero.

[lobsterboy]

I think so but it was a couple years ago so I don't remember much of it, I should look for it again (got a link handy? I'll look for it too though). I remember Albert was a fairly strong proponent of Zeo and I remember him saying you could add livestock to a tank at 2 weeks on a zeo system. I'd be a little concerned that the bacterial cultures would be all in the zeolites and not the rock especially when starting from dry rock (or at least a 50/50 mixture of dry rock) although I imagine over time a bacterial film should develop over the substrate anyhow..

Tony I used the 14 day cycle for my system, and even had the slimers in after that. I think at the start of my thread you can see the alage outbreak, but then that was it.
I dunno, now a days there are many different ways to run a tank. just sayin.


ZEOVIT SUCKS.

I thought that all this was behind us, E.T. ouch :sad:

[Rbacchiega]

I dunno, now a days there are many different ways to run a tank. just sayin.


mwaaaaahahahahahahaha

I've done the 14 day start when I ran zeo briefly....liked it. Then got lazy. We're starting a good old fashioned cycle on the tank today with a hunk of scallop.

[andestang]

Well John was going to be one of my references about it but beat me to it. Saved me some typing :) I'm thinking it's the method that will be used when I start a tank from scratch.

[Delphinus]

So ... whilst waiting for silicone to cure ..

1) Clam spawn mess on Sunday night. Did an emergency water change Sunday night and another on Monday, changed out the carbon filter skimmer etc etc etc. Bit of a rough night but everyone did OK. Also I finally finished my old carbon so to get new carbon on the tank I cracked open the Rox0.8 carbon. Holy CRAP is that stuff awesome! I have not seen such water clarity since I was running Zeo on the tank.

2) Didn't put my skimmer back together tightly enough, had some skimmate spill yesterday. Ew.

3) Back to Sunday. After the water change I couldn't get one of the powerheads to start. Took them ("them" plural - it's a dual so has two propellers on the same pump head) apart and discovered the shafts were all rusted out. Trying to DIY a fix using bike spokes (helps to have a friend with a bike store - he just gave me a handful of spokes to work with - stainless steel, should work well.) Having a bit of trouble getting the rusty ones out though. Odds are not bad I'm going to end up wrecking the whole impeller.

4) Carpet tank skimmer (BM150) stopped working. Took it apart discovered the impeller had totally shattered. Oho! I have me a spare impeller. Clever me. Replaced the impeller, still doesn't go. Took it apart, discovered this one is broken now. Oh right .. this happened to me before and I forgot that I had fixed the one impeller using Weldon. Guess it didn't hold. Am now in a hunt for a new impeller for an Altman 2500. I've msg'd Progressive Reef and hoping for the best.

5) Did at least get part of the plumbing redone. Sump return is back together. I haven't finished the skimmer feed as I don't really know how I want it. I'll dry fit it and then decide that I hate it. And so on.

Tomorrow night will be 7 days since the new silicone was applied. I can't wait to get the tank filled the rest of the way to see what next hurdle can present itself. :lol:

[Zoaelite]

Better to spill than forcefully launch into your wall.
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5243/p1140014m.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1140014m.jpg)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9430/p1140013.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1140013.jpg)

I'm going to blame the disproportionately strong right hand on that move :razz:. Can't wait to see the 280g full Tony, you still have that beautiful Red Sea Sailfin tang?

[Delphinus]

I remember that. Wow man, that was ... epic. :lol:

I do. He's a total camera hog too, I should try getting some pictures. I meant to last night but the camera battery was toast, I plugged it in and promptly forgot about it. I should go take some pick-choors.

[Lance]

Better to spill than forcefully launch into your wall.
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5243/p1140014m.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1140014m.jpg)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9430/p1140013.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1140013.jpg)

I'm going to blame the disproportionately strong right hand on that move :razz:. Can't wait to see the 280g full Tony, you still have that beautiful Red Sea Sailfin tang?


How in the hell did you do that?

[Zoaelite]

How in the hell did you do that?

My Hydor 700 skimmer likes to be difficult at times, I was trying to get the skimmer head off to clean it and some how managed to throw the puppy half way across the room :lol:.

That tang is going to LOVE the 280g Tony, what a nice little upgrade for the feller.

[Lance]

My Hydor 700 skimmer likes to be difficult at times, I was trying to get the skimmer head off to clean it and some how managed to throw the puppy half way across the room :lol:.


Well, at least you didn't throw it all over your wife. :redface:

[Zoaelite]

Well, at least you didn't throw it all over your wife. :redface:

HAHAHAAaaa!!! Lance reading that story actually made me shoot milk out my nose, I didn't believe it was actually possible until it happened to me.

Skimmate makes for some good times :lol:.

[globaldesigns]

I run a hydor also, do what I do, take out the inner ring on the skimmer (where the neck of the skimmer cup goes)... I have run it this way since the beginning and it works great. Then you don't have to fight with putting it on or throwing it around.

Oh Yeah, Yuck!!! What a mess.

[Delphinus]

Some pictures out of boredom. Seeing these really drives home to me I should consider Lasik or something.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0003-1.jpg

The rabbit is now the second-largest fish in the tank.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0001-2.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0002.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0009-1.jpg

When the trigger doesn't think I'm looking, she is a more emerald green colour. I have no idea the significance of the blue. Her way of asking for food maybe???
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0006-1.jpg

Here you can see the significant bleaching to my purple carpet. :( Been about 3 months now, maybe more. Still eating at least, I am hoping it will recover over time and after transfer to the new tank.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/DSC_0021-1.jpg

[Delphinus]

Ok! Back on track. Maybe! Hopefully! Geez, I really hope so anyhow.

Sump is slid back in place, and replumbed.

Sump return:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1579-0.jpg

What I did was take the chop saw to the original bulkhead and then chipped off the bulkhead off the elbow piece so I wouldn't have to buy new 2" ball valve pieces. I had enough of the bulkhead left to re-use it, so I did. :lol: It's just a low-profile bulkhead now. The threads are just long enough to clear through the 10mm glass and have about 2mm poking out under the thread nut.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1581-0.jpg

And the skimmer is hooked up and plumbed:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1583-0.jpg

Pardon the mess of wires .. I've not been worrying about the wiring until I was reasonably happy with the placement of "stuff" (skimmer, pumps, etc.) Cleaning up the wiring will be a job in itself, but for a later day.

[lobsterboy]

Good Karma on ya Tony.

looks like your making some action, keep it up eh

[lastlight]

Oh sweet your skimmer outlet feeds into a sock. Trap them micro bubbles nicely.

[Rbacchiega]

heeeeck yeessss!

glad to see things back on track Tony. and +1 to the outlet of the skimmer into a sock!

[Lance]

Looking good Tony. I think we already discussed this earlier: The skimmer emptying into a filter sock is a great idea, but you're going to get ****y having to change the sock every day or two. In hind sight I would have set mine up with a way bigger sock than the 4" one. I"m lucky to get two days before changing. :cry:

[globaldesigns]

That is one monster skimmer, would love to see that in operation.

Looking good of course.

[reefcanada]

It's looking good Tony. Did the holes line up for the bulk heads, or did you have to redo some of your plumbing? When do we get to see water in that bad boy?

[Delphinus]

Filling as we speak. :) Need to get me some sand and start working on the rock now I suppose.

The sump return hole worked out perfect. The skimmer feed hole was something I had to scratch my head on for a bit but I think what I've done will work out. There are two 90's on the suction side, but it's 1.5" pipe for a 3/4" input so hopefully the pump will not notice a perceivable restriction. Gonna find out tonight how well it works once the sump is full enough to do a wet test of the plumbing!!

[Rbacchiega]

you squealed like a little school girl. Admit it. We know it's true.

[Delphinus]

You mean more so than usual?

[Delphinus]

Oh .. and .. first leak found. Well ... not "found" exactly, but has made its presence felt. Grrrrrr. I can't tell where it's coming from. It actually looks like it's coming out the side of the union valve that was meant to be the shutoff point for the skimmer feed. The valve itself is shut. Going to go lie on the floor and stare at it some and see what's up with this..

[Rbacchiega]

oh leaks...
the guys at the shop got a kick out of me just staring at plumbing for minutes on end....or laying on the floor half under the tank and just my legs out on the floor. Some people just dont get it ha ha

[Delphinus]

Argh, the one bulkhead leaks too. Of course it's the one where the threaded end is on the inside of the tank. I've gotten my pipe wrench in there and reefed on it but it doesn't seem to stop. The gasket is squishing out from under the thread nut so I guess I can't be running the bulkhead this way (I don't really like to run bulkheads this way anyhow) but I only did so on account that I have a really right clearance, if the skimmer sits any further away from the sump the output pipe is not going to reach back over to the sump.

YAY! Guess I'm emptying the sump to fix this. Hope I have enough buckets and empty tanks to hold the RO/DI cuz it would suck to have to dump it and produce it all over again. I should though, .. sometimes being a packrat has its advantages.

[Delphinus]

Okaydoke. Here is today's valuable learning experience:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1586-0.jpg

Don't use a valve like this in the 1.5" size (I've used similar half-union'd valves on 1", 3/4" and 1/2" without issue on a few calcium reactors I tried making back in the early days).

The 3 little sticks are these little holder things that keep in place the white plastic ring that in turn holds the ball in place. The ball just sits in the fluid and it's insane how loose it all is (it just falls out when you take the clip out). There's no way this thing could hold back pressure of any kind ... and, well, it didn't. 10" of water and the thing was leaking right through the join. In fact I can blow into the pipe and the air escapes out - not through the ball - ie., water wouldn't flow through the pipe at least, but the housing isn't watertight in the least.

I can't imagine ANY scenario that a valve like this would be useful. What the heck???

Off to find me a true-union 1.5" valve tomorrow. Man I hope Red Coral has one in their boxes-o-plumbing heaven .. to order something like this from BRS is do-able but darn it all if that isn't another 2 weeks or whatever. I suppose I could just use a standard PVC valve from HD and a union and get the same effect but that will end up being huuuuuuuge and cumbersome and I'd just rather not.

Bah!

Guess it's still better to find these things out now and not after there's rock and sand and livestock in there.

[Rbacchiega]

weird, I've never seen ball valves like that before. Where'd you get em? A little off topic, but remember how I said I couldn't find unions anywhere...went to home depot yesterday to pick up a new dremel...unions galore.

:mad:

[Delphinus]

Rona has unions stocked fairly regularly nowadays which is kinda nice. Home Depot I find still about 50/50. Sometimes I'm surprised by what they have, other times I'm surprised by what they don't.

This kind of valve is called a single-union ball valve and should be a fairly standard sort of thing. It's the kind of union'd valve that Western Pump happens to sell. We don't seem to be overly blessed with too many PVC warehouses in Calgary, probably on account that around here it's mainly used for garden irrigation and pools. This particular one seems defective in the housing that's intended to allow for servicing. I should probably return it but I doubt I'd get anywhere on it since it's all cemented in and stuff now. For the $15 or whatever it was it's probably worth going back in and showing them but on the other hand the time it will take me to pack up the kids and drive on over there and blah blah blah blah.

Hopefully Red Coral has the true-union style for 1.5" in stock. I *could* order from BRS, I need a 1" gate valve anyhow that nobody in town seems to have in stock at the moment, so I have to do an order anyhow at some point... but it would be nicer if I could just get this part locally. The 1" gate valve isn't quite as mission critical as it will be for the frag tank, but I kind of do need a block valve.

There was a tiny piece of silicone goo that I missed under the bulkhead gasket so at least that explains that leak. So in the meantime I can get the bulkhead reinstalled and put in a PVC plug into the bulkhead for the time being while I remake the skimmer feed line.

[Lance]

Yeah, you should be able to find them at any good plumbing store. We even have them here in little Powell River. :biggrin:

[Lance]

Never mind.

[Delphinus]

Yeah, I'm usually pretty jealous at the plumbing supply stores I see and how well stocked they are when I come out to the coast. It's weird what you find yourself noticing after a few years in this hobby. "Aw man, this place has GATE VALVES? What the HE** !!!" I have found myself uttering these words sooooo many times when on vacation.

Around here though, not so much. I think it's because irrigated agriculture is much bigger out your way than it is here (which also doesn't make sense. Where does it usually rain? Where does is usually NOT rain? Summer 2010 notwithstanding.)

Anyhow I don't pretend to understand anything anymore. It is what it is. Until someone tells me the secret place that sells PVC bits galore around here, it's a combo of Red Coral, Western Pump, and Home Depot/Rona. Each place sells about 90% of what you need at any one moment. So you have to hope that the overlap of each 90% on top of each other covers closer to 98%-100% of what you need, you just accept that you have to hit up each one of them until you have everything you need, or enough for a suitable workaround.

[i have crabs]

hey tony is this what your looking for,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/djdirtyc/002-7.jpg

[Delphinus]

Yes - you wanna sell it?? :lol: Please and thank you? (Is that 1.5" ? Kinda looks like 1.5" anyhow..)

[i have crabs]

ya its a 1.5", who dosent have 1 of these floating around in the basement lol,
but ya its just sitting around so make me a fair offer and its yours, but ofcours i live on the other side of the city from you also

[lastlight]

Plumbing is such a frustrating thing. Not even talking about DOING the plumbing it's acquiring all the dang parts. Even BRS didn't stock strainers for bulkheads when I did an order once. Got EVERYTHING else yet still had to make a second trip around the city in search.

Gob of silicone...you use silicone on your bulkheads man?

[Delphinus]

Ideally no. It depends on the fit of the bulkhead in the hole. The previous panel's hole was slightly larger than it needed to be so I put a tiny bead in the hole to fill the gap between the threads and the glass. (You're not supposed to put silicone under the overlap or the gasket though.). Anyhow that piece broke so there were a few tiny bits still stuck to the threads. I brushed it off as best I could but I guess I missed one tiny speck of it.

Ironically, the hole I had for 2" before was perfect and the hole for 1.5" slightly too large, this time around the hole for 1.5" is perfect and the 2" hole was slightly too large and required a tiny bit of silicone to prevent the bulkhead from shifting around in the hole.

[Lance]

Plumbing is such a frustrating thing. Not even talking about DOING the plumbing it's acquiring all the dang parts. Even BRS didn't stock strainers for bulkheads when I did an order once. Got EVERYTHING else yet still had to make a second trip around the city in search.

Gob of silicone...you use silicone on your bulkheads man?


I hear ya. When I plumbed the 225 I picked up what I could from the local plumbing store and then had to order from J&L, BRS and O/A.

[StirCrazy]

you know tony. the whole gasket on the water side isn't nessasarly true, the gasket has to stay on the originaly intended side or you get leakage through the threds.. what I did when i put a bulkhead in backwards was leave the gasket on the outside then I put a smear of silicone on both sides of the glass and gasket. the silicone wasn't realy to seal it, but rather to prevent anything from getting lose. I did do a test befor the silicone was applied and gasket on the outside worked. if you look at it you'll see why. you have the two faces, the bulkhead flat, and the glass creating a perfect seal.. if you have the gasket on the nutside it gets twisted and deformed as you put the bulkhead in, and will leak a good chunk of the time as the threads are not sealed.

Steve

[Zoaelite]

Plumbing is such a frustrating thing. Not even talking about DOING the plumbing it's acquiring all the dang parts. Even BRS didn't stock strainers for bulkheads when I did an order once. Got EVERYTHING else yet still had to make a second trip around the city in search.

Gob of silicone...you use silicone on your bulkheads man?

Try being a 21 year old buying plumbing at home depot with your 18 year old brother, I was accused twice of making a "Beer Bong" and once of making a "Beer Bomb" before I even left the store.

Silly old people the extra was for a regular bong... :lol::lol::lol:.

and I do just what Steve does, little dab oh silicone on both sides to make sure it's snug in place.
Levi

[StirCrazy]

Try being a 21 year old buying plumbing at home depot with your 18 year old brother, I was accused twice of making a "Beer Bong" and once of making a "Beer Bomb" before I even left the store.

Silly old people the extra was for a regular bong... :lol::lol::lol:.

and I do just what Steve does, little dab oh silicone on both sides to make sure it's snug in place.
Levi

haha, the old guy in the victoria HD used to love when I came in to see what I was building this time.

Steve

[Delphinus]

you know tony. the whole gasket on the water side isn't nessasarly true, the gasket has to stay on the originaly intended side or you get leakage through the threds.. what I did when i put a bulkhead in backwards was leave the gasket on the outside then I put a smear of silicone on both sides of the glass and gasket. the silicone wasn't realy to seal it, but rather to prevent anything from getting lose. I did do a test befor the silicone was applied and gasket on the outside worked. if you look at it you'll see why. you have the two faces, the bulkhead flat, and the glass creating a perfect seal.. if you have the gasket on the nutside it gets twisted and deformed as you put the bulkhead in, and will leak a good chunk of the time as the threads are not sealed.

Steve

Thanks Steve, good explanation or at least it makes sense to me when I stop to think about it. The gasket was definitely pretty unhappy under the threadnut. I'll try it again with the gasket on the outside.

I've never really liked threadnuts on the inside, they get caked up with feather dusters and calcium deposits and the whole bit and if/when you try to remove the bulkhead it's always harder than it has to be because of it. I'd rather keep the bulkhead with the threads on the outside but it might push the pipe out too far and push the skimmer out, 1" further out and that stupid effluent pipe won't reach unless I cut it and elongate it. Although I wonder if I could just make the skimmer stand a little higher and have the pipe clear under it and call it a day on that one.

[Delphinus]

Skimmer feed redux:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1596-0.jpg

Like my 3/4" to 1-1/4" union and a valve?? :lol: Man that took trips to Canadian Tire, Home Depot and Rona just to get the pieces. Had to use a 1-1/2" valve and 1-1/2" union because I couldn't find enough connectors to make 1-1/4" throughout work. Nobody had threaded-to-threaded reducing bushings and nobody had 1-1/4" close nippes so 1-1/2" it had to be, slip to thread reducing bushings. Oh well, other than it feels enormous for the size it could have been, at least it should be functional.

Where things are at now:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1597-0.jpg

Still lots of stuff on the catwalk but I'll get to cleaning that up later. The yellow 1/4" line was coming off my RO/DI reservoir so I could fill up the sump faster (the RO/DI was on and the reservoir was draining). Still took bloody forever to fill, but I did get it filled and turned the sump return pump on for the first time tonight.

So the good news there is even at full bore the wavebox does not cause the waves to slap up, against, or over the Eurobracing as I had been concerned about all along. HOLY CRAP! Did I understand that right? Something DIDN'T screw up??? Yikes, call it a day and FAST. So, pumps are currently off for the time being until I figure out what's next on the task list.

Interestingly, once the pump got turned on and the water level rose in the display tank, the amplitude of the wave diminished significantly. It seems it's well above the sweet spot of the wavebox. The wavebox itself cannot be raised because it's butted up against the Eurobracing so it could be that I'll never really have a big wave in the tank anyhow. Oh well, as long as I can get some kind of back and forth whoosh whoosh going in there, I will be happy, the actual height of the wave is more of a novelty anyhow to me. :)

Just as a footnote to other things that happened this week:

- The bike spokes idea appear to be working. I have a working powerhead again on the left side of the cube!

- Since I had nothing to lose on the broken needlewheel impeller anyhow for the Bubble Magus skimmer on the carpet tank, I broke off the remaining pieces of the needlewheel disk so all I had was the magnet shaft. Then I cut a little plastic circle out of some plastic I found, glued that to the impeller shaft using Weldon-16, and then cut out some circles from some leftover Enkamat I had lying around. I meshmod'd my BM100! Haha, woot! I have a working skimmer again on that tank. And after 1 day it seems to be kicking butt too. Well, it's certainly kicking butt over when it wasn't working at all, if nothing else.

[Rbacchiega]

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Waves are kinda "meh" to me...I know I know..I must be weird. But I had a pretty good one going in the shop and all it did was stir up my fine sand....I mean, it was neat and all, but ReefCrest mode is my sweet lover. And I ended up turning down the vortech to about 60%...ah well.

Get rock in that beast already will ya!?

[Lance]

Whoooo Hoooo! A successful day with no mishaps!
Makes it all worth while eh Tony? One more day like that and you'll forget all about the bad stuff.
Not far off now my friend. :biggrin:

[michika]

Wow, this is really coming along here now. I kind of snickered at your pump plumbing, but only because I have something that looks disturbingly similar on my skimmer too! I like the colour of the flex, the blue is very pretty.

Congrats on getting your wavebox to work for you!

[Delphinus]

The .. blue? Oh you mean the hose from the pump to the skimmer? That's not spaflex, that's some ribbed tubing that matches the 1-1/4" skimmer intake. The skimmer came with it, I don't know what it is or where Chin even got it from. Suppose I should ask him. Looks like vacuum hose to me, the last time I used something like that though it leaked like crazy no matter what I did with it. Hopefully this stuff doesn't.

In the picture the 2" pipe that leads to the Dart and the 1.5" pipe coming out of it is spaflex, as is the 8" section that leads to the first elbow on the skimmer feed. From a distance it looks the same as white PVC but if you see it close up you can see it's a spiral of soft white plastic PVC. It's not as flexible as clear vinyl (which you have to use hose barbs for) but it does have a fair bit of give and it just cements into regular PVC fittings using regular PVC cement. BTW at Western Pump you can get clear primer and clear cement for PVC - makes for much nicer and cleaner plumbing work than the usual purple and grey stuff. :)

[Lance]

and it just cements into regular PVC fittings using regular PVC cement. :)


Tony, I always thought you are supposed to use the Weld-On PVC 795 for flexible PVC hose rather than the PVC 711 for rigid PVC.

[michika]

BTW at Western Pump you can get clear primer and clear cement for PVC - makes for much nicer and cleaner plumbing work than the usual purple and grey stuff. :)

Wait! Wait! Wait! You mean there is such a thing as CLEAN plumbing? :lol: Does the clear stuff also burn your nose hairs and make you feel a bit light headed?

[Delphinus]

Oh yeahhhhhhhh. :lol:

Lance, my understanding is that the clear stuff is the required bonder because it has some flex/give to it, but the grey stuff will still bond it. I like to use the clear stuff even on rigid plumbing because of the clean look you get out of it (the purple primer makes such a mess of things). I dunno it's what I've always done, one of those things that "someone told it was fine" and I've believed it ever since. :lol:

[lastlight]

Spilling the clear stuff wouldnt destroy m living room floor though where's the fun in that?!

Looking great man. Glad to hear the waves are working for you. You have the extension in there too?

[Skimmerking]

ya Tony we will just take your word that the WAVES ARE FREAKING AWESOME, WAY TO GO TONY. NOW IM YELLING CAUSE I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE THE DAM TANK WITH WAVES .ARUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH







&^**^&%&^**^$&$&*$^*$^&(^$&$^&* THAT IS ME YELLING AT YOU TONY.

NOW may we pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee see some more pictures..........:biggrin:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

When I end up having to upgrade my tank to fit the growing school of tangs, I will probably be looking at a tank of the same dimensions. 72" x 30" x 30". I'd have to remove the door frame but if I have to do that, then it'll be worth it. What a huge thread Tony.

Anthony

[reefcanada]

I am glad that your wave box will work for you. When are you putting rock in that bad boy?

[globaldesigns]

Hey Tony, can I come by to see the new setup. Please Please, pretty please?

[Myka]

Holy freaking balls Tony! Is that WATER in the sump? You got the ole H2O-shizzle in the display-nizzle too now or what cuz?

[lobsterboy]

NOW may we pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee see some more pictures..........:biggrin:

I am with Mike on this one, more nom nom nom

[Delphinus]

You got the ole H2O-shizzle in the display-nizzle too now or what cuz?

Yeah fo' whizzle! :lol:

Tinkered around with flow settings tonight, here's a bit of a preview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUJXrlsf9U4

The sump return comes out 4 nozzles placed along the Calfo manifold. 3 on the right pointing left, 1 on the left pointing down. The idea I had here was to create a vertical gyre that sweeps towards the overflow.

The two 6080's in the middle on Wavysea's sweeping left and right, at different speeds so that sometimes they're in sync and sometimes they're not.

Two waveboxes on the left.

Last but not least (and unfortunately not shown) there are 2 6100's positioned one left and pointing right and back, and the other one right and pointing left and forward - these are on the controller so alternating between 100% and 10% about once a minute.

The back room is a terrible clusterfrack of wires and I have my work cut out for me the next day or two getting that all cleaned up. Next up I need to get the heater on there and the Ranco and then I'm dumping salt and working on rocks!

[christyf5]

Woo look at that wave!!! Thats awesome Tony, you are so close now!!!!!:mrgreen:

[michika]

That is a great wave!

[Delphinus]

Thanks - it's interesting how the wave will sort of crest and peak depending on the interference with the other Tunzes, so there is a neat variation to the flow pattern. It's not chaotic though, like how it was when I had the 6100's on the Wavysea's and they were pulsing away (it was random but TOO chaotic - it was nothing like the flow patterns you'd expect to see on a reef). So I'm glad I was able to get these 6080's for the Waysea's, it's much better like this. (Thanks again Jay and Christy :) )

When I turn the sump return off the water level drops down to the sweet spot of the boxes and the wave gets to be more like 3" or 4". As impressive as that sounds though I don't think I'd want that for real in a tank like this one, maybe in a 8' or 10' tank and assuming the tank had actually been built to accommodate that kind of weight shifting. I should try to get a video of it like that just for the novelty of it though - maybe tonight.

So tonight's task will just be to tidy up the cabling and get the Ranco and heater up and running. After that it's salt, then rocks, then sand and then I guess it's cycling time! Man .. it's actually starting to feel close now.

On a side note I swapped out my old Mak4 for Steve's Mak4 with the broken impeller. Steve's impeller was definitely kaput, it was missing at least one fin and another was mostly broken off too, but the motor is super silent compared to mine. So an impeller swap from the two and away we go. The Mak4 at full open is WAY too much flow for the skimmer so it's throttled down considerably (the valve is more than half closed). For curiosity, I took out the watt meter and the Mak4 is pulling 138w at fully open and around 85w where I throttled it down to.

What's weird is I can't tell why my old Mak4 is so loud. It spins quite readily and when I power it off it continues to spin for some time as it winds down. So you'd think it's not a friction issue. It is however somewhere in the order of 8 to 10 years old (I think I set up my 72g bowfront in 2001? I can't remember anymore, and that's where that pump was used for a few years) so I guess I could just be expecting too much of it. I was half tempted to take it apart to see if I could grease a bearing or a shaft or something but I guess without an intact impeller it's not much use as anything other than a spare motor in the event that the other Mak4 has a problem down the road. I'm not sure if you can buy replacement impellers for Mak4's anymore and maybe it's not even worth it if the bearing on this has gone (but you'd think it wouldn't spin so nicely if it was a bearing? I dunno, I guess I don't know much about motors).

Anyhow I guess I need to get on with the task of sourcing out some sand. I had originally planned on going BB in this tank but now that there's water in it, the silicone work on the bottom is really noticeable and it's .. just brutal .. to look at. Not the nicest silicone work I've ever seen (nicer than anything I could do but.. that might not be saying too much. :lol:) So I think it needs to be covered up.

I'm thinking a mixture of a little Fiji pink, a little Bimini pink and a whole lot of plain white sugar sand. I dunno, what do people think of the pinker grains from Caribsea? I need to go look at the bags and see what I think in person but I do like the pictures.

http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/dry_aragonite.html

(The Bimini pink seems to be only available in wet: http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/aragalive.html )

[lastlight]

You are CLOSE now it's gotta feel good. Glad to see another Ranco user...was it being used on your other tank or was it in storage?

I think the sugar sand is far too fine for a SPS tank but maybe that's just me. I like the Aragamax Select personally but might go a bit courser next time so I can really move some water.

I find the sand looks far different under water and under lights so the bags are even a touch misleading to me anyways. I know that doesn't help much but...

[Delphinus]

Oh and the blue ribbed tubing leaks like crazy at the hose barbs. I have two metals straps at each end cranked down as hard as I can and it's slowed it down some but not eliminated the leaking. It also collapses down under its own weight when full of water. So I have to find a different feed line from the pump to the skimmer. This ribbed stuff must be for low-flow low-pressure applications and not meant to be used for carrying a pump discharge (too much flow and/or pressure I guess).

[Rbacchiega]

hmmmm weird....normal flex hose then?

[Delphinus]

You are CLOSE now it's gotta feel good. Glad to see another Ranco user...was it being used on your other tank or was it in storage?

Storage - I bought two of them a couple years ago when one of my heater controllers let go (might have been a Won Bros brand? Can't remember.. and I guess it's not an important detail now anyhow) so I bought two off ebay. One is in use on my FW tank and this one has been waiting patiently...


I think the sugar sand is far too fine for a SPS tank but maybe that's just me. I like the Aragamax Select personally but might go a bit courser next time so I can really move some water.That's a good point. I don't need anything too too fine for my own taste but for the sake of the wrasses and other fish who might like to bury themselves at night I don't want to go too big either. I'll check out Select too. The picture of it certainly looks promising.


I find the sand looks far different under water and under lights so the bags are even a touch misleading to me anyways. I know that doesn't help much but...Heh, no worries and it's a good point. I dunno I'm trying to imagine what sand with smattering of pink in it would look but I've found that what I imagine something will look like and what it will "actually" look like in reality seem to be not all that close together... Guess I'm gonna have to make some decisions and then just take a leap of faith. I can't imagine any choice will look "bad" though - it's just sand. (Well, maybe that painted gravel would look bad. We can eliminate that option right off the bat! :lol:)

[Rbacchiega]

I've got about 40lbs sand from the Bahamas that came with the order from Marco rocks...looked nice and tan when it was dry and is a blinding white atm in the tank...which I don't mind...only problem is it's super fine...mini sandstorms aaaaaalllll the time.

[Delphinus]

hmmmm weird....normal flex hose then?

Maybe. The annoying thing is that the input to the skimmer is 1-1/4". To switch to anything else I'd need to buy a SCH80 union and thow away most of it and just use the one piece with a different size adapter. I could go this way and stick with 1" line since the pump puts out way more flow than needed anyhow but I was thinking if I ever replaced the Mak4 with something a little more miserly I may want the bigger tubing to restrict flow less. I guess I'm overthinking this, that's a problem that doesn't exist right now and I should only worry about if/when that day comes.

I'm going to look for some 1-1/4" vinyl tubing, if that's easy enough to get, then it's just a relatively easy swapout.

[Delphinus]

I've got about 40lbs sand from the Bahamas that came with the order from Marco rocks...looked nice and tan when it was dry and is a blinding white atm in the tank...which I don't mind...only problem is it's super fine...mini sandstorms aaaaaalllll the time.

I imagine that should get better as the sand gets coated in bacteria but yeah I totally understand why people choose BB and just not have to worry about those things. I'm guessing the sandstorms will be terrible for me too for the first little while.

[Rbacchiega]

pretty sure they'd have it at home depot...in the plumbing/bath area methinks

[Delphinus]

I hope so. I know that they have 1-1/2" but I hate that stuff. It's enormous and unless you get the reinforced kind it doesn't keep its round cross section and so on. I should just move to 1" and replace both unions at the end and call it done. What's another $30 (or whatever) at this point ..:lol:

[lastlight]

I really hate the vinyl stuff. I am using it only because there was none of the re-enforced stuff which stays round in stock. And all this because I wanted quick and dirty when I did my return pump swap which meant no pvc.

So Tony you're saying you trust your cube to a heater thermostat or what's in use there?

[Rbacchiega]

I wanted quick and dirty

That's what she said...c'mon Brett, you're making it too easy (also what she said)

[Delphinus]

Bazinga?

[lastlight]

That's what she said...c'mon Brett, you're making it too easy (also what she said)

You just 'she saided' what she previously said. I'm calling the shop up and asking to speak with the boss I think someone's slackin' today :mrgreen:

[Lance]

Ho! Ho!. We got water and waves! The home stretch is in sight now baby!

[Rbacchiega]

Bazinga?

yes

and no Brett...I simply said that what YOU said was worthy of a "that's what she said"...and then after what I said was ALSO worthy of a "that's what she said"....holy eff

and I'm allowed to slack...because everyone else does here sometimes too.

[PoonTang]

Those waves are crazy! I love it. I like your wavy seas. You get some sice random current from them. I find with the one I built for my tank, and the 2 korillias on the wave program I am getting some very nice random flows happening and my 2 triggers love playing in them. You will be very happy with them once you get some livestock in there.

[Delphinus]

So Tony you're saying you trust your cube to a heater thermostat or what's in use there?

Missed this earlier, sorry - but yes just a basic Ebo or something in there currently. Sort of goes back to the whole "it wasn't supposed to be this long" thing in the first place - was only meant as a temporary thing (this tank also originally had a ... I forget the brand name, it wasn't Won Bros, for a heater controller but it was something similar, it failed and starting reading these weird alien symbols instead of numbers). Anyhow other thing though is that the heater in there is kind of small, if it got stuck-on my "hope" is that it doesn't have the ability to overheat the tank anyhow. Luckily between the room temp, the lights and the pumps it doesn't have much work to do anyhow. It's actually a pretty low tech tank. I just use a floating glass thermometer in the sump to measure temp. Every so often I'll go looking for it and have to peel off a layer of feather dusters to take a reading.

[Parker]

Where things are at now:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1597-0.jpg



Hey Tony,

I'm not sure how high you will be running your return chamber:

I had mine set up much the same way and was having issues with the dart pulling air from the surface and blowing bubbles all over the tank. I had to change out the strainer for an elbow. By the looking at the hight of your baffles you probably won't run into that problem, just thought I'd mention it.

[Delphinus]

Oh ok good to know, thanks. In that picture the sump hasn't filled yet but under normal circumstances I'll have the water level straight across so the intake is a good 8" submerged. An elbow is an easy fix - worst case scenario and if I don't have enough space for an elbow I could make take a length of pipe and drill holes into it and thus spread out the intake over the width of that whole section.

Right now there is still a massive amount of air bubbles drawn into the Herbie overflow so I have to retool that a bit. Was thinking of shortening the main drain so it sits much lower down, and then raising the emergency overflow as much as I can because right now there is a 4" level drop into the overflow and it's quite the waterfall. That should both create fewer bubbles and those that do still get created have to travel further down so hopefully that will do it. There are no microbubbles in FW but that of course could all change once it's SW. Also it would be nicer to further reduce the sloshing sounds. At least with the tank room door closed the sound is contained but seems to me a Herbie is supposed to be quiet as well as bubble free. :lol:

[lastlight]

yes

and no Brett...I simply said that what YOU said was worthy of a "that's what she said"...and then after what I said was ALSO worthy of a "that's what she said"....holy eff

and I'm allowed to slack...because everyone else does here sometimes too.

You're splitting hairs that's *SO* 17 years old of you Randi.

And Tony you're playing with fire man. Glad you're this close to transferring over! You've got at least a month of cycle ahead of you I imagine tho which sucks but still...

[Parker]

I run no piping on my main drain, just the bulk head on the bottom and my emergency is about even with the top of the overflow. The downside is my entire overflow drains when I shut the return down, but the sump is big enough to handle it. I would say my overflow probably holds 35/40 gallons.

[Rbacchiega]

You're splitting hairs that's *SO* 17 years old of you Randi.

war.

Side note...today I've done nothing at the shop...besides waste time on here and facebook...and she complains. *facepalm*...okay..>THAT was 17 year old of me...dear self, grow up...and stop talking to yourself.

Another thread successfully hijacked by this gypsy tattooer.

[lastlight]

In my experience with the herbie setup I can't ever tune the gate valve finely enough to EXACTLY match the pumps output. The output also does change I suppose very slowly as it gets dirty. Either way what I have done is get it as close as possible so that the very slow creep is up and the emergency drain always has a very small amount just seeping down it. Bubble free, silent and like you said I have both my main pipe and my emergency very high. The overflow skims but drops about 1/2" into the box.

[Lance]

In my experience with the herbie setup I can't ever tune the gate valve finely enough to EXACTLY match the pumps output. The output also does change I suppose very slowly as it gets dirty. Either way what I have done is get it as close as possible so that the very slow creep is up and the emergency drain always has a very small amount just seeping down it. Bubble free, silent and like you said I have both my main pipe and my emergency very high. The overflow skims but drops about 1/2" into the box.


Exactly.

[StirCrazy]

Either way what I have done is get it as close as possible so that the very slow creep is up and the emergency drain always has a very small amount just seeping down it. Bubble free, silent and like you said I have both my main pipe and my emergency very high. The overflow skims but drops about 1/2" into the box.

um thats how it suposed to be set up. so a small amount is flowing through the second tube.

Steve

[Delphinus]

I have a small amount going into the upper tube, although it's not steady. Because of the variable flow coming into the overflow (because of the waves going) the water level tends vary by about 1/4" so it comes up about 1/8" above the drain pipe then 1/8" below.

The issue was that, well, actually it's not really an issue, it's not THAT loud, but because I used a strainer on each standpipe, and the Eurobracing overlapping part of the standpipes, I can't get the top of the standpipe higher than 4" down from the top. It still works it's just that there's enough flow you can hear the waterfall when you're in the tank room. Outside the tankroom there is no noise so it's not like it's a problem.

But I found something that will allow me to raise the standpipe while keeping a strainer on it. Pictures tonight if I get the standpipe reworked. Would have done it last night but I decided to watch some TV instead. :lol:

[lastlight]

um thats how it suposed to be set up.

Somehow I never read exactly how it's supposed to work that was the only way I figured it could. Just brain-dumping here in the hopes of helping out.

[Delphinus]

It IS helpful, thanks. :) FWIW I didn't realize you were *supposed* to have a trickle in the upper standpipe, rather I figured it was harmless to have it.

[Chin_Lee]

nice skimmer......

[Delphinus]

Ok, so, you know how sometimes Home Depot will surprise you by what they don't have? Sometimes, although less frequently .. they'll surprise you with what they do have.

I found this by serendipity last night:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1618-0.jpg

It's meant as a vent cover for 2" PVC, sits inside a coupler piece.

So, a quick bout with the chop saw and the top of the standpipe now looks like this:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1619-0.jpg


So I cut a new piece of pipe (only had about 12" left of 2" PVC) and extended the standpipe. Looks like I could have gone 1/2" - 3/4" longer still, but nevertheless it's still a huge improvement in noise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wed0uKr0AY8

[Lance]

Well now that's a lot easier than cutting one out of egg crate.

[fishytime]

thats slick brochacho!.....very clean looking standpipe....*hopes that didnt sound gay(not that theres any thing wrong with that)*:mrgreen:

[Dez]

Wow! And to think i had to waste my time fabbing not one but 2 of them for my closed loop intake. Good score Tony!

[lastlight]

Tony that's awesome but if you're worried about fish getting past the eggcrate into the overflow in the first place how does this help? Looks like same spacing as eggcrate?

[fishoholic]

thats slick brochacho!.....very clean looking standpipe....*hopes that didnt sound gay(not that theres any thing wrong with that)*:mrgreen:

You're not switching sides on me now are you? :razz: j/k

The standpipe looks awesome, great find Tony.

[Cliff]

Just read through your journal and I must say........ I'm more than jealous

Nice set-up.

[dnpbryan]

I just want to say thanks for the info on overflow setup. I have been battling noise issues and flooding into the basement with the wife for almost a year. As of last night with the new emergency drain line instalation (35 min including driving to home depot) the tank is silent. Not one gurgle, trickle or gulp. Thanks again for saving my tank from my wife
DJ

[untamed]

Nice video. Herbie is working perfectly!

I was even able to eliminate that small waterfall noise by building a small scaffold out of eggcrate inside the overflow. On top of the scaffold, I placed two small sponges. This way, the waterfall lands silently on the sponges. It has no other effect on the overflow. Even if the sponges get all clogged, the water just runs over their surface and down the overflow normally.

[Delphinus]

Not too much to report but here's some activity progress.

Reef building 101!
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1634-0.jpg

At this point I should mention that I'm considering just lining the floor and walls with acrylic and calling the tank room the new tank, and then poof, I'm done with this. Can't believe I didn't think of this earlier. The door might be a bit tricky, but I'll figure something out..

Anyhow just because I have nowhere else to put these:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/IMG_1632.jpg
The colour is ever so slowly restoring in the purple carpet these days. Hope that positive trend continues!

Someone was out earlier tonight so I snapped a few photos. Glass was dirty so not the best quality, sorry...
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/IMG_1635.jpg

Not quite in focus but I love the shot, such classic moray attitude:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/IMG_1637.jpg

Seeing this photo after I uploaded it, I see I found the elastic that disappeared last night.

[Delphinus]

Also I find it odd that I find myself at odds with piecing together rock the way I think I want it to go together, and yet being influenced by how the rock itself wants to go together and then finding I'm going in a totally different direction than what I thought I had in mind. The thing is ... it's rock? Isn't it inanimate? How is it that I'm losing in a contest of wills to inanimate objects? No wonder my kids are able to get away with anything. Geeze!

[lorenz0]

love the rock work tony. so... going to give sps another go?

[Delphinus]

Thanks!! And yeah, that's the plan/hope ! :)

[lastlight]

Looks promising already man get that rock WET!

[Skimmerking]

Where did you get that Rock from Tony.

[josie]

love your moray pics :)

[lastlight]

Where did you get that Rock from Tony.

:mrgreen:

[Parker]

Curse you people who can make nice piles of rock!

Looks great Tony!

[Skimmerking]

:mrgreen:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh

[Lance]

Also I find it odd that I find myself at odds with piecing together rock the way I think I want it to go together, and yet being influenced by how the rock itself wants to go together and then finding I'm going in a totally different direction than what I thought I had in mind. The thing is ... it's rock? Isn't it inanimate? How is it that I'm losing in a contest of wills to inanimate objects? No wonder my kids are able to get away with anything. Geeze!


Tony, the rock work looks great. I love that shelf rock: It looks just like the Eco-Rock I got from BRS when I set up the new tank.
I totally get you when you say the rock goes where it wants. I got frustrated and broke it with a hammer and suddenly it fit! :lol:

[fishoholic]

Also I find it odd that I find myself at odds with piecing together rock the way I think I want it to go together, and yet being influenced by how the rock itself wants to go together and then finding I'm going in a totally different direction than what I thought I had in mind. The thing is ... it's rock? Isn't it inanimate? How is it that I'm losing in a contest of wills to inanimate objects? No wonder my kids are able to get away with anything. Geeze!

It's funny how that always seems to be the case, doesn't matter though as I think the rock looks great so far :biggrin:

[fishytime]

that tower looks great Tony:biggrin:.....lots of shelves and such to place corals....are those just stacked or did you get fancy somehow?

[lastlight]

He's got a piece of 1/2" pvc holding them together. Word on the street is it's NOT Kien's 1/2" but maybe one of them can chime in here?

[Delphinus]

That particular pile has a 1/2" column of PVC (you can see it coming out the top rock as I hadn't cut it yet when I took that pic). Otherwise the rocks are just laying on top of each other. I took some thorite yesterday and bonded a couple spots so that when I take the rock layers apart (I'll never be able to lift that pile on its own) to put into the tank, I hopefully have some reasonable hope of refinding how they fit together when in the tank (I realize I'm only kidding myself but I'm clinging to optimism here). I also came to the realization I'm probably going to have to crawl INTO the tank to get rock pile placed properly, so that should be an interesting exercise later today. :neutral: (Wish me luck!!)

I used an acrylic rock and some thorite to bond the three rocks at that slanted angle for the smaller pile in beside to create that ravine (the real goal of the whole thing pictured there was to have a ravine. :lol: That whole thing was "just a pile of rock" until I put a second pile of rock next to it and all of a sudden it turned into this angels signing "Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment and light was shining on the ravine. Weird stuff.)

This is just one rock pile and will hopefully be sitting on the right side somewhere. For the rest of the reefscape it will likely be a mixture of zap straps, acrylic rods, and the occasional splop (or maybe even a splurch or splotch) of thorite and/or epoxy. I haven't quite got the vision yet for the rest except for things like "want caves, ravines and shelves." I'm not very good at artistically placing rocks - when I moved the smaller rock pile last night the big pile went right away back to "just a pile of rock" and the angel choir left. I said "come back, I have beer!!!! I totally don't mind sharing it with angels!!" but it didn't change their mind.

[Zoaelite]

Also I find it odd that I find myself at odds with piecing together rock the way I think I want it to go together, and yet being influenced by how the rock itself wants to go together and then finding I'm going in a totally different direction than what I thought I had in mind. The thing is ... it's rock? Isn't it inanimate? How is it that I'm losing in a contest of wills to inanimate objects? No wonder my kids are able to get away with anything. Geeze!

I would say it looks like your winning! Great looking structure there Tony, can't wait to see it in the tank.

I also came to the realization I'm probably going to have to crawl INTO the tank to get rock pile placed properly, so that should be an interesting exercise later today. (Wish me luck!!)
Photos plz :lol:.

[Lance]

That whole thing was "just a pile of rock" until I put a second pile of rock next to it and all of a sudden it turned into this angels signing "Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment and light was shining on the ravine. Weird stuff.)
I'm not very good at artistically placing rocks - when I moved the smaller rock pile last night the big pile went right away back to "just a pile of rock" and the angel choir left. I said "come back, I have beer!!!! I totally don't mind sharing it with angels!!" but it didn't change their mind.


That's because you offered them beer Tony. It requires something a little more "heavenly", like vintage red wine made from grapes crushed beneath the feet of thirty virgins.

[Delphinus]

Rock 1 - Tony 0

... sigh. Tomorrow's a new day..

[fishoholic]

Rock 1 - Tony 0

... sigh. Tomorrow's a new day..

uh oh things not working out liked planed?

[lastlight]

What became of the ravine? The skies opening up to light angels blast the pile with heavenly light etc? Come on man what happened?

[Lance]

???????

[Dez]

Hey Tony,

I haven't been on canreef all that much. Just catching up on your build thread. I'm really excited for you that you are soooo close to livestock in your tank. Keep at her :).

[Delphinus]

I thought I had given myself enough markers to be able to rebuild the layers inside the tank. But between the dim lighting and my -6 or so eye prescription, I just couldn't see well enough to pull it off (maybe if I actually DID crawl into the tank, but I didn't - I think I'd need a SNUBAby tube or something so that I could get my head the requisite 6" away so I can see - man Lasik is looking better and better - I just need to convince someone to pay for it!!) Anyhow so I thought OK, take the rock out, rebuild it outside the tank with the glasses back on and this time drill more holes and use as many acrylic rods for alignment as I need to be able to rebuild it by touch and feel.. But you know how it goes - no two rocks will ever fit together exactly the same more than once - and the whole thing just lost its mojo - and became one of those moments where no matter what you do - you know the ones - everything you do just makes it worse? "No that's worse - undo it - no now it's worse some more - undo the undo - wait what, that's worse than the worse before which was worse than the worse before that!" .. and I find when I get into that state it's best just to wallllk awayyyyyy slowwwwwly..

Another thing, the shelf pieces are overwhelmingly large inside the tank. I have to go look at Brett's old 225 pictures to get some inspiration because I'm not sure I liked the look of the huge pieces in the tank the way they were going to go now anyhow.

So I might focus on some other facets on the rockwork next. I have to go look up again the tanks that have served as inspiration to see what other ideas I can try.

[Delphinus]

Went and found Brett's FTS of the 225. Here they are: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=464232&postcount=385

So I recognize the pieces on the left island but I'm not sure I ended up with the shelf pieces from the right side island as I don't recognize them in the pile of stuff. I think two people ended up buying rock from Brett after the shutdown so I think they probably ended up with the other person. Which is too bad since that was my favourite part of his old 'scape. :lol: Oh well, life goes on. One thing that I am reminded of though after seeing the pictures is that low rockwork is better. I "thought" that I wanted one island to be nice and high just to give the tank some different visual flow, but seeing the low rockwork convinces me now that I'm probably wrong on that idea and should stick to lower lying rockwork anyhow.

So I hate to say it but I'm not sure that the enormous shelf pieces are doing anything for me. I'm REALLY not good at visualizing something with an aesthetic quality to it, and I'm even worse at connecting reality to a vision (there's a reason I'm not an interior designer - man I envy those with the talent to "make stuff look good.") Some smaller shelf pieces would do better but it would be a HUGE shame to bust the big ones up as they would go really nicely into a big tank somewhere. Maybe I'll sell them if I don't end up using them, we'll see. Between a 50g rubbermaid with rock, a 20g tank holding some rock, the rock from Brett and some rock from Kien it's not like I'm sitting on a huge deficit of rock (in fact I'm thinking I might have gone a little overboard with the rock collecting the last year or so), so the options should be out there in the meantime.

All I know is I want swim-through caves and ravines and a slight island look. I also like the bonzai look to a tank but it's clear to me now that I have NO hope of blending elements from say someone like Kien's 'scaping to someone like Brett's 'scaping (or "Sweet Ride's" tank here: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=562612&postcount=3 ) I mean .. it could probably be done and be an epic win, but, it's WELL outside the realm of what my own talent (or lack thereof) is capable of. Boo. I'll have to leave the visionary work to those whom are better visionaries.

@$%^&%*&!!! Man alive I hate the aquascaping phase of a tank! The temptation to do what I've always done and "just throw the rock in there and let it be what it may, landslides warts and everything" right now is huge and it's taking a lot to fight the urge at the moment.

[Lance]

Tony have you thought of breaking the larger shelf pieces? I ended up doing that. I had made two columns but it just didn't look right because the pieces were too big. After breaking them into smaller chunks it was much easier to make a nicer-looking island.

[Lance]

Tony, I broke the largest piece here into 3 pieces and it was much better to work with.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo151/lancefishtank/IMG_2356.jpg

[Delphinus]

Yeah maybe that's what I have to do, I'm not quite done yet convincing myself I can do it and not feel too guilty about it but maybe that's the direction I'll have to go with the pieces. Weird how in Brett's tank which was 30" deep IIRC, and considerably shallower (mine is 30" tall and 30" deep) that it doesn't seem to completely overwhelm the tank.

Darn it, I KNEW I'd have been better off lining the room with acrylic and making that the tank instead of trying to move the rock into the glass box. Phoo!

[Zoaelite]

@$%^&%*&!!! Man alive I hate the aquascaping phase of a tank! The temptation to do what I've always done and "just throw the rock in there and let it be what it may, landslides warts and everything" right now is huge and it's taking a lot to fight the urge at the moment.

You now if you throw it all in there your going to get the urge to aquascape it eventually, I don't think any of us are ever truly happy with the rockwork so it's nothing to exhaust yourself over.

Perhaps having Brett or Kien over for an aquascape consult isn't a bad idea, that or maybe post a photo of what your working with and we can give you some informative ideas?

[lastlight]

Tony I recall not wanting to mess around with parting rock out during that time so you did in fact receive ALL the rock. I'm almost positive.

The right column has a base that is actually made of a piece of shelf rock sorta put upside down. The middle shelf piece broke on my and you'll recognize some tie wraps and epoxy holding the 3 pieces together. The top piece was a sort of triangular piece and I had to use tie wraps to keep it how you see it. I think the boulderish piece on top of the very bottom shelf base had sorta 3 or 4 little leg/nubs to it and you'll see that there is a hole drilled for a tie-wrap through each nub. Those all connected thru the bottom shelf bit and I used those massively long tie wraps to do it.

Hopefully that gets you started in the right direction I dunno it's a tough bizz.

I also got very frustrated with the shelf pieces. I mean they're sorta the creme de la creme but are so damn big and tough to position. I'm sorta a fan of piles now and letting the corals BE the shelves. You could certainly sell them =)

[lastlight]

And holy hell you're trying to do this with the tank full I forgot. No way in hell I could have done that either man. I water tested with regular tap water. Drained. Scaped. Ro/di'd that beatch. May the rock gods have mercy on your soul =)

We should set aside a night this week and I'll swing by if you want?

[Rbacchiega]

And holy hell you're trying to do this with the tank full I forgot. No way in hell I could have done that either man. I water tested with regular tap water. Drained. Scaped. Ro/di'd that beatch. May the rock gods have mercy on your soul =)

We should set aside a night this week and I'll swing by if you want?

I'm home Wednesday night at midnight...and am without vehicle until I renew my license, but
I can hop a bus down your way later on in the week if you need a hand Tony

[Delphinus]

Tony I recall not wanting to mess around with parting rock out during that time so you did in fact receive ALL the rock. I'm almost positive.


I thought there was someone else you gave a couple pieces to, I remember you sort of saying "hey is this cool?" and I'd have never said "NO IT'S NOT COOL, I AM DELPHINUS, ALL HAIL DELPHINUS!" or words to that effect (I might THINK it, but I'd never state it out loud). I could be wrong (even if it did happen it's OK, it's more for my own sanity that I can't find those pieces now so I'm grasping at a possible explanation). I'll look at the stuff more closely again but I could swear that some of those pieces I see in that smaller shelf are not there. It's no biggie either way.

Your description should help me look through it all though - thanks - and - you kinda scare me that you can remember details like that. On a good day I can't even remember what I had for breakfast the day before, and you're all "the triangular piece this with the crack that I fixed that" and so on. :eek: ALL HAIL LASTLIGHT MASTER OF THE GOODER REMEMBERORAY THAN DELPHINUS WITH THE BAD REMEMBERORAY!

I also got very frustrated with the shelf pieces. I mean they're sorta the creme de la creme but are so damn big and tough to position. I'm sorta a fan of piles now and letting the corals BE the shelves. You could certainly sell them =)

Who would have thought they're frustrating?! But yeah that they are.

[Delphinus]

And thanks for the offer Brett and Randi - unfortunately the only time I get to work on things like this is very late at night, which probably explains my propensity to get all depressed and frustrated at every little thing that doesn't go right on the first try (which is everything) .. if you're OK with coming over at 11pm, cool, but otherwise I wouldn't blame you for being more sane and saying "Uh, I might have to wash my hair or something that night".

And Dez, sorry man somehow I missed your post earlier, but hey I appreciate the comments (and everyone else too). It's been such a long road it would be soooo nice to be done with this chapter and move onto other things! Like .. um .. enjoying the tank.

[lastlight]

Well who's always around on msn far past 11 dude? Come up with a night and I'll still be there.

- the night owl

[Rbacchiega]

if I can find a way down there I'll be there...or I'll wait till I renew my liscense and meet ya down there one night....either way, I'm game

[Delphinus]

Time for some pictures!

Ok, so, it's been a few weeks of working on the rockwork now. I think it's finally at a point where I'll be leaving it (at least for now). Still some features to it that I'm not completely loving, but it's good enough. There are a few features that I really do like though. So time to toss up a few pictures since next I'll be dumping the sand in and who knows when you'll be able to see into the tank again after that, at least a few days I imagine or maybe longer.

FTS
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1640-0.jpg

The main design idea was to get a few shelves, some arms, some ravines, some caves, some bommies, and some open lagoon type spots; and then to try to not be too uniform about it. The shelf rock in particular has been a thorn to work with, it's been redone several times now, and in fact came close to just being nixed altogether. But I'm glad I kept it, it's no bonsai tree but nevertheless I'm liking the shelf now.

Right hand side bommie/caves:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1641-0.jpg

Unfortunately it doesn't show up in the photo well but there is a 3" wide ravine here that opens up into the inside of the bommie which is essentially hollow.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1645-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/preview_img_16460.jpg

Might be hard to pick out in the photo but there is a really neat overhang here. I took a page out of Kien's book to build that particular corner of the bommie, in order to stabilize it, it is permanently mounted to some scrap acrylic (the flange lid to one of my earlier DIY calcium reactor jobs).

End view looking to the left side of the tank:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1644-0.jpg

The left side shelf/bommie/island:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1642-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1643-0.jpg

I really wanted to get two levels of shelves going but it kept coming back to either looking contrived and fake, or a bit just "too much" for the tank. I came up with a few tries that would look great in a FOWLR tank and/or a tank larger than this one, but just didn't fit into this overall schema of THIS tank. So away with the second shelf and just went with a "cap". This sucker is a bear weight-wise and had to constructed outside the tank and lifted into the tank in two separate layers. The base rock is probably 60 lbs on its own.

The hole to the lower left is a rock I found in my holding tank that had the hole. I melded it to a curved rock and leaned it up against the base of the shelf rock on account the base rock really needed some more texture to it in order to fit in, plus I wanted a cave of this nature since my trigger currently sleeps in a very similar rock in the base of the bommie in my 115g cube right now. Hopefully she finds this spot, but if not, I'm sure someone will and hopefully likes it. :lol:

And then there's this nightmare of wiring:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_1647-0.jpg

This is actually the "clean" look. Man there are a lot of things to plug in. Some of the wires were too heavy for the cable holds so they are just dangling. I'll probably replace the cable mounts with some threaded S hooks in the ceiling.

The orange extension cords that run off the right there are for the two existing tanks in another part of the basement. I can't wait to shut them down and get the rest of the basement development work going.

You can also see a "hole" where there should be a second Tunze driver box (above the one by itself and below the two Wavysea controllers). I figured out what's wrong with it, and I should be able to fix it so long as I can actually find my stupid soldering iron. I haven't done any soldering on electronics in like 6 or 7 years so I can't find it at all. So I just went out and bought a new one. :lol: But stupid me, I bought a butane based soldering iron and no butane. DUH. So off to Home Depot to correct that little oversight and hopefully get my one not-running Tunze back into a running state again.

I did a quick calculation earlier tonight and with the Dart return, the two 6100's, and the two 6080's, I figure I'm right at about 40x turnover with the 6100's at peak. This is before the waveboxes fit in (not sure how they would factor into a volume turnover calculation). I am hoping this will be enough for SPS for starters but I guess I'll have to see, might have to toss a few more flow generation things in there I suppose..

Next up, the sand, and then starting the cycling in earnest. I liberally estimate maybe another month from this point before the tank is ready to start having fished moved over, but we'll see how things go.

For the most part the fish load is already complete since I'll be shutting down the other tanks. I have been dreaming up "what else's" and one option that keeps speaking to me is a small group of lyretail/squamipinnis anthias. I saw two such groupings today at Red Coral and it's really solidified in my mind that I would like to try, wow, they are really beautiful fish. I have some time to do some more research on them in the meantime.

[lobsterboy]

its really coming along Tony, and the scape looks great.

There are alot of places for fish in there, what kind of sand are you going to use, the fine grade or something abit more coarse ?

great work man :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

Thanks!! It's been fun, well, sort of .. a few swear words uttered here or there but overall I hope it's stable. Still some parts I'm not loving but I'm hoping that it will be better once there are some actual corals in there.

The sand is a mixture of Fiji Pink, Select, and then Seachem as well. Forget how much I picked up now. If I guess I'm sure to get it totally wrong but I'll guess anyhow and say maybe about 200lbs in total?? I'll have to count the bags tomorrow. I basically cleaned out Kevin right after Mitch had bought a whole bunch of sandbags for HIS tank (great timing on my part - as usual, a day late and a dollar short, but oh well, I do at least remember thinking that had secured enough to cover the bottom silicone basically). It was about a month ago so I'm sure by now there will be more in store should I need any more (hope not though).

I TOTALLY went overboard on stockpiling rock in preparation for this tank and in the end I've probably only used up about 30% of what I had on hand. I'm still trying to secure a 65g tank I can use for the butterflies and the eel on their own, so I'll keep some rock for that tank and then sell the rest. Long story short, the eel will be too difficult to feed in this tank, and the butterflies are just overall too destructive to a reef, so I'm thinking I will setup a FOWLR just for them.

[Skimmerking]

WO that is looking great Tony.
Start date 1-08-08
life date
11-29-10

man time flies when your building addy boy buddy