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Delphinus
01-20-2008, 06:15 AM
This is easily the slowest tank build in the history of Canreef. Tank was built by Interamerican/Bow Valley ... in 2005. :redface: I started on a tank stand at the time, then decided on a different design, .. then we had a kid, and in the inevitable life-gets-turned-upside-down, the process got derailed and the tank sat on my basement floor for a very long time before I got back on the horse.

Anyhow, the specs:

280g 72x30x30
Eurobraced
1/2" Starphire/Low-Iron glass on front and sides
3/4" bottom pane, 5/8" rear pane
Front pane is tempered.

Overflow is a standard corner overflow, in the left rear corner, 2-2" bulkheads. Although it wasn't the original intention, this will work well for a Herbie style overflow.

My sump will be a 100g UFA livestock watering tub... Planning on using this mostly just because I happen to have one, and I might as well do something with it. (It was my "backup plan" in case a tank got dropped when we moved into our current house.) It won't work great for baffles because it's oval in shape, but I'm hoping to avoid needing baffles by going Herbie on the overflow anyhow.

Here are pictures of the progress so far.

November 2007 - Stand more or less built, so time to put the tank on the stand.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/tank_lifting_party2-0.jpg

Not having a clue what I'm doing, mostly I go by trial and error. At this point, I decided to check the level of the tank on the stand in its final location, and I found that I had lost my level. So, I did what any self-respecting aquarist would do: I filled the tank with water. :lol:

Then I measured the water level on the corners and found that the left side was down a solid 1/2" from the right. The stand itself is perfectly square, it's the basement floor that is out that much. So I emptied the tank, shimmed the stand, and refilled. So far, seems to be holding, and seems to be level.

I'm not sure I'd recommend doing this. I wanted the stand to be more or less transportable, in the event I ever move again or decide to sell the tank. But the other way would have been to build the stand as a wall and have it levelled right at the get-go. There are probably better advantages to doing it this way over how I did it, but c'est la vie, it is what it is.

Der_Iron_Chef
01-20-2008, 06:16 AM
Woot! Looks familiar, Tony. I look forward to following alone and then admiring it all in person one day :)

Der_Iron_Chef
01-20-2008, 06:17 AM
Umm. I don't think I ALONE will be following ALONG. He he. Oops.

Delphinus
01-20-2008, 06:34 AM
The first thing that struck me (you can't really see this in the photo) was that I had to have the furnace and HRV ductwork redone. There were three enormous pipes overhead that were going to interfere with the canopy and wall, so I called the place that installed the HRV and asked what options I had.

One pipe was HRV and two were furnace outlets. It turned out that the furnace outputs could be combined into one stepped up pipe. As it turns out, the HRV had been installed incorrectly when it was first installed (two years ago) so when they came by to give me an estimate, they noticed this, and told me that it was incorrect and they wanted to fix it free of charge. I was pretty happy with that. :) I had no idea it was incorrect, but I am happier with the way things are now because the pipework is far less intrusive around the furnace area now.

I don't really have any "before" pictures but I will show a picture of the piping in my next post.

I used "Air Pro Heating" for my HRV and these guys are top-notch. They were recommended to me by another Canreefer (Monza, we don't see him online too much anymore, bummer - great guy). They did an analysis based on how much air turnover and how much floor space and air volume I had, to rectify the problem of excessive humidity based on the tanks. Anyhow, anyone in Calgary considering a tank room, or even building a new house - I very highly recommend talking to these guys about an HRV.

Delphinus
01-20-2008, 06:42 AM
Anyhow, more pictures!

Next up was to build some wall framing and hang a door for access into the tank room.

Seems that maybe not going about things the easiest way, but, I want walls to be flush, or near to flush with the tank, as opposed to having the walls a 2x4 thickess out from the tank.

Also, I wanted to avoid the usual "picture frame" look to a typical inwall tank because my favourite tanks are those that can be looked at from multiple angles. Ideally, if I had had the space, I would have made three sides viewable, but unfortunately I just don't have enough space to pull it off ... so the end result is the best compromise I could do, a "front and right-hand side viewable" tank.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1090047-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1090048-0.jpg

As you can see, I haven't bothered draining the tank yet from my "verify the tank is level" step. :redface: That's some skanky water now, but I'm leaving it for now because I'll use it to test my plumbing when I have that ready (hopefully soon). Seems to me there's no need to waste 280g of water in the meantime. :lol:

Here's a close up of the furnace piping. "If I knew then what I know now", I'd have sprung for 9' ceilings in the basement. With 8', there are definitely a lot of low spots to work around due to things like this.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1090049-0.jpg

Delphinus
01-20-2008, 06:47 AM
Currently, I'm at a bit of a standstill because the joists have more flex to them than I anticipated. I only have 1/2" of clearance between the framing and the top of the tank, and it appears that if someone walking in the living room directly above, hits the "sweet spot", there is about 1/2" of flex in the whole joists. This means the framing actually can contact the tank. Not good.

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to solve this. The drywall should take out some of the flex but I'm not sure I want to rely on the drywall to prevent my tank becoming a "load bearing wall."

I might try some cross-bracing, or, I might end up putting a corner post on the right. This second option should work well but it would involve some creativity on the finish to keep it looking good. My main hope is to avoid it looking like an afterthought (even if it IS an afterthought).

Myka
01-20-2008, 07:27 AM
Bummer...not picturing what is happening though...

Pan
01-20-2008, 07:41 AM
Currently, I'm at a bit of a standstill because the joists have more flex to them than I anticipated. I only have 1/2" of clearance between the framing and the top of the tank, and it appears that if someone walking in the living room directly above, hits the "sweet spot", there is about 1/2" of flex in the whole joists. This means the framing actually can contact the tank. Not good.

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to solve this. The drywall should take out some of the flex but I'm not sure I want to rely on the drywall to prevent my tank becoming a "load bearing wall."

I might try some cross-bracing, or, I might end up putting a corner post on the right. This second option should work well but it would involve some creativity on the finish to keep it looking good. My main hope is to avoid it looking like an afterthought (even if it IS an afterthought).

Put a big red X on the Sweet spot and make everyone who enters your abode sign a disclaimer form. Sheesh some people make things so difficult.:)

wickedfrags
01-20-2008, 11:50 AM
Hey Tony,

Looks great so far - and ya that is taking your time. One thing I woud recommend is not using that rubbermaid container as a sump. I did this myself initially and was ultimately not pleased with it. Pick-up a used sump, or ever make one yourself either with a new stock tank or a used tank. Dave

Skimmerking
01-20-2008, 12:50 PM
looks goof there Tony. I like the way that you framed in the tank.

Gools
01-20-2008, 01:50 PM
Yah I'm building my tank in wall right now to. Just saw how you did yours, now I want to change it and build it like you did. Seeing down the sides is a really cool feature, especially on in wall tanks.

Did you ever consider having access from the front of the tank? With that depth and height it is going to be fun reaching from the back.

saltwater-virgin
01-20-2008, 02:35 PM
Currently, I'm at a bit of a standstill because the joists have more flex to them than I anticipated.

Take a look at the results of a google search on "sister joist". This additional joist support may help remove the flex.

michika
01-20-2008, 02:39 PM
Looks good! Good luck on solving your "sweet spot" problem. It was cool to have seen it with water this past week (skanky or otherwise).

KrazyKuch
01-20-2008, 02:39 PM
Currently, I'm at a bit of a standstill because the joists have more flex to them than I anticipated. I only have 1/2" of clearance between the framing and the top of the tank, and it appears that if someone walking in the living room directly above, hits the "sweet spot", there is about 1/2" of flex in the whole joists. This means the framing actually can contact the tank. Not good.

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to solve this. The drywall should take out some of the flex but I'm not sure I want to rely on the drywall to prevent my tank becoming a "load bearing wall."

I might try some cross-bracing, or, I might end up putting a corner post on the right. This second option should work well but it would involve some creativity on the finish to keep it looking good. My main hope is to avoid it looking like an afterthought (even if it IS an afterthought).

hey tony your best bet for that flex is to put another joist right beside it...in other words to double it up, that should stop it from flexing and will still look the way you want it to in the end!!

Delphinus
01-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far! Yeah, I haven't ruled anything out. I did get started on the cross-bracing but ran into a couple of problems ... mostly, the joists aren't sitting perfectly square so a 2x10 cut to the right length doesn't fit right! I end up with gaps on the diagonals. :neutral: Well, and, well, I guess I didn't do enough cross braces because it didn't seem like it was helping at all.

@ Gools - I did consider front access but (for better for for worse) I have decided against it for now. I'm thinking of trying to make this along the same lines as untamed's tank or Superfudge's tank - on the viewing side there is only viewing. If you've ever been in my basement you know that it's a howling sensation of fan noise, pump noise, overflow sloshing .... in this project I want to be able to hear the tank as little as possible in the main room. I'm even thinking of putting in sound insulation into the framing to this end.

I guess I haven't shown much details about the stand - so I guess that's the next few things I'll try to take pictures of. There is a catwalk along the back edge so that I can stand with my feet at the same level as the bottom of the tank - which should help some. I'm only 5'9" (or thereabouts) so reaching into a 30" tall tank is a challenge anyhow. :)

@wickedfrags - yeah, it may only be a temporary thing anyhow. The main thing though is that it will work to get me going - down the road I can look at building a proper sump. The costs associated with a tank this size are more than I'd like, so to compensate, I'm phasing in purchases for some things, and making do with what I have for other things in the meantime.

Anyhow thanks all for the comments! Hopefully having this thread open will be a motivation to show progress in a more timely manner from this point forward! :)

christyf5
01-20-2008, 06:05 PM
Well I'll be damned, you're way farther along than I thought. You might even get it finished this year!!! :razz:

:biggrin: <--this is me, note I'm not holding my breath :wink: Just kidding.

MitchM
01-20-2008, 06:27 PM
Currently, I'm at a bit of a standstill because the joists have more flex to them than I anticipated. I only have 1/2" of clearance between the framing and the top of the tank, and it appears that if someone walking in the living room directly above, hits the "sweet spot", there is about 1/2" of flex in the whole joists. This means the framing actually can contact the tank. Not good......


Hi Tony,

If the crossbracing isn't working out, and the joist spaces have mechanicals running through them that would prevent sistering of the joists,I have a couple of other suggestions:

-It looks like your door frame wall is extending into the floor joist space above. The best way to frame and attach a wall to a ceiling is to first place blocks between the joist space above where you want the wall, then build and attach the wall to that height. Usually you place blocks every 24" for drywall backing, but the structure of the door wall will also add some stiffness to the floor above.
Glue and screw the blocks to help even more.
Maybe use that 2 x 10 for the blocks and place them every 16" or even 12".

or

-re-frame the bulkhead above the aquarium to allow for the flex and cover the space with moulding trim.

Mitch

MitchM
01-20-2008, 06:42 PM
When I think about it...

If that door wall is actually extending into the floor joist space above,you will have to re-frame it anyways, because you will have flexing at the ceiling-wall joint.
That will give you constant drywall cracks.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

Mitch

kari
01-20-2008, 08:12 PM
When I think about it...

If that door wall is actually extending into the floor joist space above,you will have to re-frame it anyways, because you will have flexing at the ceiling-wall joint.
That will give you constant drywall cracks.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

Mitch

Maybe not entirely reframe the wall with the door. To save reinstalling the door maybe try cutting the studs in place and install the upper plate as Carpentersreef noted.

Delphinus
01-21-2008, 05:02 AM
Thanks guys. I haven't ruled anything out at this point, seems like there are plenty of options.

The amount of flex shows up the most on the corner of the bulkhead. The door wall doesn't really extend upwards into the joist space as much as it looks like it does in the photos. Well, it does extend up into there, but only in that it the top piece is resting on the exterior wall (same shelf that the joists sit on). I have 2x4's flanking this piece holding firm to the adjacent joists. There is some flex but it seems like only about 0.5cm? I wasn't worried about it until you mentioned it.

(Having said that, I'm not sure I'm still terribly worried because I was hoping to go with a drop ceiling instead of drywall ceiling.) Nevertheless I can put some more studs in place as you describe. Unfortunately I don't see this solving the bulkhead bounce issue, but I think I'll try the joist-sistering and see how it goes. I was thinking maybe sistering the one joist in question that seems to be giving the most bounce, and then cross bracing after that right at the spot. (Disclaimer: I'm still reading up on that method so if I say anything here that doesn't make sense, it's because I haven't finished my homework on that one.)

Snappy
01-21-2008, 05:33 AM
Yeah Tony!!! Look at you go. Things are really shaping up over there and looking good. Won't be long before you're up and running. Call me whenever you need a hand.:smile:

J.Lloy
01-21-2008, 05:36 AM
What where you planning on for return flow? Is there a link for info on Herbie overflow, I hadn't heard of one till just a few days ago?

Pan
01-21-2008, 05:41 AM
What where you planning on for return flow? Is there a link for info on Herbie overflow, I hadn't heard of one till just a few days ago?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=344892

Delphinus
01-21-2008, 05:52 AM
@Greg - Thanks!! I'm started to get excited, it's starting to look like a tank!!

@ J.Llow - I have a Sequence Dart lined up for sump return duty. It might be a bit overkill but so I'll probably dial it back with a gate valve or a ball valve until I can get a frag tank/refugium online (in which case I'll T off of it). Or, if it looks like the tank can handle the pump at full bore, I'll do that. :) If you valve a pump back it actually consumes less electricity, so that's kind of a neat trick. More head pressure seems like it should be more work, but it means the impeller turns less fast and consumption is based on motor speed instead of motor load.

A Herbie overflow is one where you have two drains in your overflow. One is an emergency backup, one is the "main drain." The main drain you throttle back with a valve so that the water drains at the same speed as the sump return. The end of the pipe is submerged in the sump, so there's no splashing. No air gets into the drain, and thus this eliminates microbubbles. Plus, it's nice and quiet.

The downside is that it's risky to have a valve on an overflow, if a snail or something gets in there, it could block the overflow. Hence, the emergency backup pipe. If for some reason water slows down in the main drain, the emergency backup pipe takes over.

Here's a link with more info - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=344892

Delphinus
01-21-2008, 05:52 AM
Dude! You beat me to it again! :rofl:

MitchM
01-21-2008, 09:59 AM
... Nevertheless I can put some more studs in place as you describe. ...

It doesn't need more studs (the vertical pieces that make up the wall), the wall should be shorter in height (the thickness of the top plate - 1-1/2"), blocks placed between the 2 joists above then the wall top plate screwed up into those blocks.

With the structure of the wall beneath those blocks, it will act as a support for the joists, and the added support will reduce the flex of nearby joists.

Mitch

Joe Reefer
01-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Wow Tony things are coming along. Looks good.

Delphinus
01-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Ok guess I'm getting messed on terminology. I didn't mean vertical studs, I meant the blocks you were talking about. I still don't see that as fixing the problem with the bulkhead though because the door wall is within 4 feet against an exterior wall (ie., a spot where minimal flexing is anticipated), whereas the bulkhead corner is at least two joists away and within a couple of feet of the centre of the joist (ie., a spot where maximum flexing is anticipated). The more I read about sister joists however, and couple that with some cross-bracing, makes me think that there is merit in at least trying that before undoing all my framing ... :neutral:

danny zubot
01-30-2008, 06:00 AM
It worked! (inside joke)

Tagging along.

untamed
01-30-2008, 05:26 PM
Interesting...the wall above my tank is just a 2x2 frame. I may just have gotten lucky as I've not seen any flexing from people walking directly above the tank.

Delphinus
01-30-2008, 06:02 PM
Hi Brad, do you have a gap between the frame and the tank or the frame and the ceiling? I looked specifically at your thread and it looked to me like it's resting on the tank straight to the ceiling? I thought maybe you were able to get away with this because you have an acrylic tank ... Or maybe you just don't have a bouncy flexy joist like I do. I'm starting to suspect these engineered joists that I have are supposed to be bouncy and flexy. Which is great for reducing noise but not so great in this scenario.

Oh well, I have high hopes for the sister-joists method .. I've gone and bought the lumber but just due to the nature of the work I'm unable to put it up by myself. My wife is about 7.5 months pregnant and suffering from every pregnancy related ailment so I've been .. kind of not asking her for help. I have to wait until some poor unsuspecting other person comes along. The next person to ring my doorbell to tell me about Jehovah's Witnesses or sell me a Calgary Herald is in for a surprise. :lol:

untamed
01-30-2008, 06:32 PM
No, no gap at all to the ceiling. There's a strip of foam door insulation between the frame and the tank. I put that foam there to prevent the wood from sitting directly on top of the tank where it would get wet.

While the frame is connected to walls on the left and right, it isn't connected to the ceiling at all. That means that the weight of the overhead wall/doors is largely resting on the tank. I suppose that an acrylic tank lets me get away with that.

Like I said...I think I just got lucky because I didn't consider ceiling flex at all.

MitchM
01-30-2008, 08:16 PM
... The next person to ring my doorbell to tell me about Jehovah's Witnesses or sell me a Calgary Herald is in for a surprise. :lol:

:lol: :lol:

Mitch

MitchM
01-30-2008, 08:18 PM
... That means that the weight of the overhead wall/doors is largely resting on the tank. ...

Like I said...I think I just got lucky because I didn't consider ceiling flex at all.

:eek:

Mitch

Delphinus
01-04-2009, 05:40 AM
Well, a year has passed so it's time to resurrect this thread and show to the world just how pathetically slow I am at getting this project going.

In my defense, there have been some massive challenges to overcome that have nothing to do with how to set up a tank .. but everything to do with how to (or how not to) build a house and/or renovate a basement.

Highlights:
- Removing flex from the ceiling
- Painting concrete
- Finding the floor drain that I paid the housebuilders to put in. Apparently I didn't pay them enough to put in the floor drain because when I lifted the cover it was just a 3" pipe end encased in concrete. Oh there were swear words as I sat there and chipped at the floor for about 6 hours trying to get the pipe open.
- Building a light frame and then discovering that my furnace and HRV vents overlap the tank too much and I have a problem on my hands. I SHOULD have just said "to heck with it" and moved the tank over 12" ... but I was stubborn to my belief that I've picked the best spot for the tank and I'm just going to work with it as best I can. Big time headache that nearly had me throwing the towel on this project in earlier this year. Next house I build (which will be never, hopefully), but if I do find myself in the position, I'm springing for nine foot ceilings. I've learned that lesson...

Overall it's been a bit of a tough year for me in the hobby so I've taken long breaks at times while considering my next moves. I might also have had a second kid which tends to shake your life upside down for a bit. :lol: But anyhow, enough excuses, and onto the updates.

Delphinus
01-04-2009, 05:51 AM
I'll start with the floor. I opted to paint the concrete because I thought that would be easier and quicker than lino. I was probably wrong.

It turns out you need to "etch" concrete, preferably with muriatic acid, before you can paint it. Home Depot would not sell me muriatic acid .. "Are you nuts? That stuff is far too dangerous." Uhhh thanks guys, but the paint YOU sold me said I have to in the instructions? I finally found a guy working there who knew of an alternative though, so off I went.

But first, the floor drain. I had a floor drain installed by the housebuilders. But I never thought to look at it. I finally popped the cover off and found .. it was not a floor drain but just a pipe encased in concrete.

I didn't think to take a picture of it initially. After about 6 hours of bashing the concrete with a sledgehammer and chisel, and a hearty dose of swearing, I got it to this point..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p7270005-0.jpg

Hard to tell in the photo but the pipe isn't even centred in the hole. Technically, I should have just jackhammered the concrete, installed a proper drain and repour concrete, but that was just not on the table. I just worked the concrete until it's a basic funnel shape and left it at that for now.

Here's Tasha inspecting the drain hookup from the laundry sink. You can tell she's thinking "WTF?"
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p7270003-0.jpg

Plumbing installed (hot and cold lines, I used 3/4" pipe) and drain installed:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p7270001-0.jpg

I opted for 3/4" line because I thought it might be better for the RO/DI feedline, the more pressure for RO, the better.

I also subverted the household pressure regulator so I get about 96psi at the tap and a reasonable output from the RO/DI.

I don't have a picture handy but one thing I did that was a sort of "oops" was install the regulator back on the household supply backwards. OOOPS. It makes a rather interesting sound as it slams shut at the speed of sound and you wonder why there's no water coming out of any taps in your house .... :lol:

Delphinus
01-04-2009, 05:54 AM
Here's the first pass of the aluminium light frame.

It's had to be modified because it doesn't fit over the tank thanks to those %$#%$!#!! furnace/HRV vents overlapping the tank. There's been a few choice swear words uttered over this particular predicament. We'll see how it turns out..

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p7270007-0.jpg

With the Lumenarc mini's ..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p7270008-0.jpg

Delphinus
01-04-2009, 06:00 AM
Here's the inside of the canopy. I chose plywood instead of drywall for this side because I think it will hold up to moisture and humidity better.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1020001-0.jpg

I'm using quarter round on the inside corners just to help keep humidity out of the ceiling. Here's my triple-mitre job, I'm pleased how that turned out. :lol:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1020002-0.jpg

Finished painting..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1030003-0.jpg

And just how it looks from the outside..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1030004-0.jpg

Starting to look like a tank!! Yay.

There's still so much ground to cover that I get queasy thinking about it. My goals for the next two weeks are:

- Install the HRV vent covers

- Install the barndoor hangers for the light frame, and hang the light frame in place

- Get the electrical done

- Get the tank plumbing done.

That might be enough for me to get water and rock into the tank and start cycling, while I finish off the rest of the room (ie., drywall the walls inside the tank room and on the tank display side, get the decorative moulding in place on the front side and so on).

fooser
01-04-2009, 06:09 AM
You are making me want to get 3 lumenarcs too now Tony.

rattler
01-04-2009, 06:17 AM
Congrats Tony!!

It's good to see this starting to come together

Cheers!

Rattler

KrazyKuch
01-04-2009, 06:23 AM
Hey tony if you need a hand give me a shout!!

fishytime
01-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Man, Im excited for you, so I can imagine how you must feel being soooo close to getting water in the beast. You can feel free to call on me for anything as well.

michika
01-04-2009, 03:23 PM
Looks awesome Tony. That is quite the progress you've made.

Let me know if you need Kevin to run your electrical for you. Its the least we can do after you took care of our livestock for so long. Besides I hear the electrical trade is the trade where a little knowledge can be dangerous!

Lance
01-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Nice job on the carpentry. Going to look sweet when it's done.

Doug
01-04-2009, 03:59 PM
Looks good Tony. Are the hood vent ducts, to the hrv?

Skimmerking
01-04-2009, 04:07 PM
Right on Tony so your saying that the lights light wont fit ,it it doesnt send it to me i will use it ..:mrgreen: looks great man like how you put the hood in too.

Rbacchiega
01-04-2009, 06:25 PM
I'll help if you need it in any way...Make a day or two out of it LOL

Delphinus
01-05-2009, 06:04 AM
Thanks for the offers, be careful though I may just take you up on it. (Kev, I might need help on the weekend or one day huffing the sump into the stand. Linda's already declared "I'm not helping you with that." :lol:)

...

Anyhow, the HRV (heat recovery ventilator) vent covers are in, as are the barndoor hanger tracks.

Now, you might be tempted to believe that going from here...
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1030003-0.jpg

to here..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050003-0.jpg

... wouldn't take about 4 to 5 hours of effort. But, apparently, you'd be mistaken. I sure was.. :neutral: Hoooley geeez was this not a lot of fun getting those things up there.

banditpowdercoat
01-05-2009, 06:14 AM
Hoooley geeez was this not a lot of fun getting those things up there.


Looks like Uni-Strut/Cantruss. I should have given you a hand. Work with that ALOT, being an Industrial electrician and all :D But, Looking GREAT :biggrin:

Delphinus
01-05-2009, 06:27 AM
Part of the problem was that I don't have proper mounting brackets for the tracks. All the proper brackets I could find are intended for .. well, hanging actual barn doors, so they are to sit flush against a wall parallel to the track. Since the track is perpendicular to the joists, I just drilled the track and screwed it right into the joists. Problem is, it doesn't matter how many times I measure, I have to cut (or in this case, drill) one time more than the measurements. Measure once, cut twice. Measure twice, cut .. er, three times. Apparently I suck at measuring. :redface: :lol: So there was a lot of drilling into the track going on tonight.

banditpowdercoat
01-05-2009, 02:07 PM
Guess you would hate me if I told you that that stuff also comes in a slotted back version, so no drilling required, Huh?

Atleast its up, right lol Now hang them lights :onfire:

michika
01-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Just say when, and I'll send him over, complete with a couple of double doubles.

Phanman
01-05-2009, 03:25 PM
looks good Tony, did you get the Lumenarc mini's in canada? also did you get the wides or just regulars?

Delphinus
01-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Oh I wouldn't hate you for saying, I'd just hate myself more for not looking longer. :lol: Part of the problem is this stuff is pretty foreign to me so I had trouble finding what I had in mind, as it was. Luckily AndyL on Canreef was able to set me up with this stuff for a pretty good deal so I was happy enough. I'm happy they're off my floor, they are gargantuan and heavy (way heavier than the light rack, there's irony). I had nightmare visions of dropping one on the tank and damaging the glass ... as it was I did drop one once and took out the eggcrate on the overflow. :( At least it's just eggcrate though, easily enough replaced.

John, they're just regulars. I didn't know there was a wide version of the mini's. I got them in a group order, er, about 2 years ago. Well, that's only sort of the story. I ordered two regulars initially in the group order, then decided they were too big because I want to flank the reflectors with T5's. So I traded with Michika for the mini's. Then I bought the third off Asmodeus. The irony is that even with the mini's I will still have very little clearance for the t5's. I might take a page out of Michika's/KrazyKuch's book and go with 24's mounted perpendicular. The main thing I want out of the t5's is a little actinic supplementation and a dusk/dawn effect so going with 24-inchers might just be the ticket .. they are cheaper and easier to get ahold of the 60-inchers..

lastlight
01-05-2009, 06:39 PM
Good to see you're keeping the dream alive =)

If you need a hand lifting something let me know. I'm in the area and built like a wall (verge of collapse).

I was really looking forward to making a light rack as well but the wife vetoed that idea. Looks like you did a great job!

cprowler
01-05-2009, 07:14 PM
Looking good Tony.

I look forward to following along!

Jason McK
01-05-2009, 07:38 PM
Looks Great Tony, How did you make you aluminum light hanger. Mine is currently wood and I'd really like to change it. Could you share where you got your supplies and a cost? Pleeease

J

Rbacchiega
01-05-2009, 07:38 PM
So when's the "Hey My Tank is finally full of water!" Barbeque?

untamed
01-05-2009, 07:47 PM
The only time I really injured myself on my build was when I was installing those overhead tracks. Working directly above my head I dropped the screwdriver right onto my forehead and cut myself pretty badly.

I had to do the exact same thing as you...Find the crossing joists, measure and drill the track, then put it up and hope they lined up. Sounds like my measuring went somewhat better than yours! The stuff I used (KN Crowder) does not have any slotted version available.

btw...you can get small end plugs that you can install on the ends of the tracks that will prevent you from inadvertently rolling the lights right off the end of the track. Needless to say...that would be bad. I have some....have not gotten around to installing them.

Delphinus
01-06-2009, 05:33 AM
Hit a wee snag tonight. :( Bummer, 3-4 days of progress without a showstopper was just begging for it though.

What's happened is I tried to modify the shuttle cars for the barndoor hangers to be able to hang the canopy from them. I used an eyehook upside-down with a locknut on the top to hold it in place. But the problem is the locknut can't clear the screws that are holding up the track (not even close, I tried yanking on it pretty hard).

So time for some headscratching. Either I find a different way to hang the lightframe, or I find a different way to mount the tracks. If I could just find some flush-ceiling mount brackets I'd be set, but I don't know where to buy such a thing. I might ask my blacksmith buddy if he's able to fabricate me something.

Anyhow, even though it's not working out, here are some pictures detailing what I had in mind.

This is the original shuttlecar ...
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050006-0.jpg

This is the exploded view of the modified shuttlecar..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050007-0.jpg

I decided on turnbuckles just so there's wiggle room for adjustments in case it doesn't hang level. In retrospect the upside eye hook is way longer than it needs to be. It's a 5" bolt and a 2.5" would suffice. I was thinking I'll cut the bolts down to size or get shorter ones, but now with the fact that I can't roll the rollers in the track I guess I have some other homework to do in the meantime.

...

The lightframe itself is basically a box. The aluminum and all the brackets and bolts-n-nuts cost around $80 and everything came from Rona/Home Depot. I just looked through the metal bins and found this 3/4" aluminum square rod. I had the fantasy of having it welded at first but decided that brackets and bolts and screws are good enough.

The idea is that it's a box with three cross-bars on the top, at 25%, 50% and 75% (roughly) to evenly space out the reflectors. The whole thing put together weighs around 22lbs and is decently sturdy.

It occurs to me now that if all you wanted was to hang the lumenarcs then a box isn't even needed, just the top layer itself. I went with the box idea though so that the bottom layer is there for attaching T5's if I ever get around to buying them.

Here are some closeup shots showing details of the construction..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050003-1.jpg
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050004-0.jpg
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050005-0.jpg

michika
01-06-2009, 01:30 PM
The 24" T5s are also much easyier to ship if you need to, they don't usually require additional shipping on top of the regular extra shipping for lightbulbs!

Sucks about the shuttle though.

wickedfrags
01-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Nice workmanship there Tony. Ever consider mounting some VHO actinics under the halides?

Hit a wee snag tonight. :( Bummer, 3-4 days of progress without a showstopper was just begging for it though.

What's happened is I tried to modify the shuttle cars for the barndoor hangers to be able to hang the canopy from them. I used an eyehook upside-down with a locknut on the top to hold it in place. But the problem is the locknut can't clear the screws that are holding up the track (not even close, I tried yanking on it pretty hard).

So time for some headscratching. Either I find a different way to hang the lightframe, or I find a different way to mount the tracks. If I could just find some flush-ceiling mount brackets I'd be set, but I don't know where to buy such a thing. I might ask my blacksmith buddy if he's able to fabricate me something.

Anyhow, even though it's not working out, here are some pictures detailing what I had in mind.

This is the original shuttlecar ...
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050006-0.jpg

This is the exploded view of the modified shuttlecar..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050007-0.jpg

I decided on turnbuckles just so there's wiggle room for adjustments in case it doesn't hang level. In retrospect the upside eye hook is way longer than it needs to be. It's a 5" bolt and a 2.5" would suffice. I was thinking I'll cut the bolts down to size or get shorter ones, but now with the fact that I can't roll the rollers in the track I guess I have some other homework to do in the meantime.

...

The lightframe itself is basically a box. The aluminum and all the brackets and bolts-n-nuts cost around $80 and everything came from Rona/Home Depot. I just looked through the metal bins and found this 3/4" aluminum square rod. I had the fantasy of having it welded at first but decided that brackets and bolts and screws are good enough.

The idea is that it's a box with three cross-bars on the top, at 25%, 50% and 75% (roughly) to evenly space out the reflectors. The whole thing put together weighs around 22lbs and is decently sturdy.

It occurs to me now that if all you wanted was to hang the lumenarcs then a box isn't even needed, just the top layer itself. I went with the box idea though so that the bottom layer is there for attaching T5's if I ever get around to buying them.

Here are some closeup shots showing details of the construction..
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050003-1.jpg
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050004-0.jpg
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1050005-0.jpg

untamed
01-06-2009, 02:49 PM
What kind of screws did you use to hold up the track? Can you switch out those screws for ones with flatter heads that would allow your locknut to clear?

If not, you might be stuck with the original shuttlecar bolt. Figure out how to attach a eyelet to the bottom of that bolt.

I'm thinking a kind of long nut. One that can be threaded onto the bottom of the existing bolt AND threaded onto your eyelet. I believe it would be called a "threaded rod coupler", or a "coupling nut".

Pacific Fasteners in Vancouver had stuff like this for me (in stainless steel)

banditpowdercoat
01-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Tony, you should be able to unscrew one of the eyelets on the turnbuckle, and screw the stock shuttlecar bolt into the turnbuckle. Thus, not needing the one eyebolt and the clevis. One thread of the turnbuckle is right hand thread, the other is left hand. So use the right hand thread end LOL If that's not long enough or wont work for some reason, you can get whats called Coupling Nuts. They are approx 1.5" long, and threaded inside. You can even get them mismatched threads, say 5/16 on one side, and 3/8" on the other. they are specifically for joining threaded rods together :D

muck
01-06-2009, 02:58 PM
http://www.linitindia.com/images/1_hex%20coupling%20nuts1.JPG

christyf5
01-06-2009, 03:55 PM
Tony I'm glad you're documenting all of this, that way I can follow it when I get my build going :razz: Its also fantastically awesome and awesomely fantastic that you're getting a move on on this thing! :mrgreen: Seeing it in person actually on the stand renewed my faith that one day you'll actually have saltwater in it! :wink:

Delphinus
01-06-2009, 04:02 PM
Thanks all.

Using some coupling nuts is something I thought about last night ... I didn't realize they came in mismatched thread sizes, that's awesome to know.

Although I think I like the idea of removing one of the turnbuckle bolts and replacing it with a regular carriage bolt. That idea has a lot of potential!!! Thank you!!!! (Argh, today at work is going to be a frustrating 8 hours until I can get home and try it out. :lol:)

banditpowdercoat
01-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Thanks all.

Using some coupling nuts is something I thought about last night ... I didn't realize they came in mismatched thread sizes, that's awesome to know.

Although I think I like the idea of removing one of the turnbuckle bolts and replacing it with a regular carriage bolt. That idea has a lot of potential!!! Thank you!!!! (Argh, today at work is going to be a frustrating 8 hours until I can get home and try it out. :lol:)


You think thats frustrating? Tomorrow, Im shipping out again for another 21 days in the North West territories. Wont be able to do nothing tank related till Jan 28 LOL And it's -40 there right now HAHA, I must be an idiot.....

Shouldnt need a carriage bolt either, the bolt that came with the trolley should thread right into the turnbuckle. Atleast thats my theory LOL:wink:

Delphinus
01-06-2009, 07:07 PM
The stock bolt is HUUUUUUUGE, it's like a 1/2" or possibly even 5/8" thickness. I'm pretty sure you could use it to suspend a BC Ferry in the air :lol: I just bought a 1/4" turnbuckle for this purpose because I have very little vertical space to work with on account of that darn ceiling jog for the ducts.

banditpowdercoat
01-06-2009, 07:47 PM
The stock bolt is HUUUUUUUGE, it's like a 1/2" or possibly even 5/8" thickness. I'm pretty sure you could use it to suspend a BC Ferry in the air :lol: I just bought a 1/4" turnbuckle for this purpose because I have very little vertical space to work with on account of that darn ceiling jog for the ducts.

Ohh, the turnbuckles 1/4" I was thinking the turnbuckle was 5/16 or so and the stock bolt was 3/8" But ya, 1/4" be plenty strong. darn pictures perspective is allways skewed LOL:wink:

Lance
01-06-2009, 10:21 PM
[QUOTE=Delphinus;375020] I'm pretty sure you could use it to suspend a BC Ferry in the air :lol:

I don't know about that. Most of the fleet is in pretty bad shape. Nothing but DEAD WEIGHT, or an excellent anchor for a Super Tanker :wink:

Delphinus
01-07-2009, 05:06 AM
Well, it wouldn't be the BOLT that would fall apart. :lol:

Anyhow, thanks Bandit, the idea worked perfect.

The shuttlecars now look like this:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1060003-0.jpg

And here is the lightframe up in the air. W00ty!!1!ONE!
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1060004-0.jpg

It actually sits pretty level without needing any adjustments. Only thing is it sits a little too low, it needs to come up 3"-4". I'll be running 400w's so I was hoping for as close to 12" above the water surface as possible. Right now they are about 8". So I'll be chopping down the bolts to make it happen since the hanger assembly is already at minimum length.

Actually the irony is at the current height it would fit under the furnace ducts. But I really want the 11"-12" of height for the sake of minimizing heat transfer and hopefully creating a more uniform light cast.

I would do the bolts tonight but all of a sudden I'm wiped. Think I'm gonna check out what's on the PVR. :lol:

fishytime
01-07-2009, 05:11 AM
Looks sweet Tony! Just a few tweaks and you can scratch that one off your list.:biggrin:

Pan
01-07-2009, 05:11 AM
Well, it wouldn't be the BOLT that would fall apart. :lol:

Anyhow, thanks Bandit, the idea worked perfect.

The shuttlecars now look like this:
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1060003-0.jpg

And here is the lightframe up in the air. W00ty!!1!ONE!
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/p1060004-0.jpg

It actually sits pretty level without needing any adjustments. Only thing is it sits a little too low, it needs to come up 3"-4". I'll be running 400w's so I was hoping for as close to 12" above the water surface as possible. Right now they are about 8". So I'll be chopping down the bolts to make it happen since the hanger assembly is already at minimum length.

Actually the irony is at the current height it would fit under the furnace ducts. But I really want the 11"-12" of height for the sake of minimizing heat transfer and hopefully creating a more uniform light cast.

I would do the bolts tonight but all of a sudden I'm wiped. Think I'm gonna check out what's on the PVR. :lol:
^^^^ now you feel old and not just look old :)


Nice progress btw :)

Boomboy
01-07-2009, 05:32 PM
that looks great, must be nice to be able to move your lights away from the tank. All the little things that really make the difference. Cant wait to see more.

untamed
01-07-2009, 06:41 PM
Looks great!

Now...you'll want to put a light up in the ceiling between those two air intakes. That way, you'll still be able to see what you are doing when you roll the lights out of the way.

brizzo
01-07-2009, 07:03 PM
Very nice Tony! I was looking at active threads, and I thought "When did Tony have a 280g in-wall ??" .. then I noticed the dates! :razz:

Good advice from banditpowdercoat! Nice easy fix!

Delphinus
01-07-2009, 08:17 PM
Looks great!

Now...you'll want to put a light up in the ceiling between those two air intakes. That way, you'll still be able to see what you are doing when you roll the lights out of the way.

Thanks Brad. :) I have some spare 175's ballasts and a cheapy dual reflector I was thinking of using for that. I also have some N.I.B. ReefOptix reflectors I could use too, haven't quite decided if I'll use those instead or sell them. For the purpose of "temporary lighting" the cheapy DIY thing might be good enough..

Very nice Tony! I was looking at active threads, and I thought "When did Tony have a 280g in-wall ??" .. then I noticed the dates! :razz:


Yeah I know. It's been bad. I used to travel a lot for work, then I had kids then I had other projects, then I got down on the hobby for a while and thought about selling everything, then I would save up for equipment purchases .... I have a long list of excuses .. :redface:

I wish I had thought to photograph what the furnace ducts looked like originally. THAT was a huge project to fix up in itself. A lot of the challenges that have slowed me down have had nothing to do with setting up a tank and but instead have to do with fixing up builder's blunders, or renovating a basement, or running plumbing .. and then fixing the plumbing because I didn't do it right ... stuff like that.

fishytime
01-08-2009, 01:42 AM
There's a guy that's dedicated to the hobby. *salute*

brizzo
01-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Ok, so whats next? :lol::razz:

lastlight
01-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Posts like that are so cruel. I took it hook, line and skimmer.

Tony hurry up. Your evil twin grows impatient.

Delphinus
01-28-2009, 04:11 PM
I guess technically the next step is I have to come back into the country. I'm currently in South America on a work trip! (Hola from Buenos Aires. Isn't it grand to waste international bandwidth on surfing one's favourite reef discussion forum??) Anyhow, it's, ah, slowed me down a little at the moment.

But I guess as far as recent progress goes, the last couple of weeks have been a question of moving livestock out of my 75g into my 110g cube so I can shut the 75g down. Why not just finish the 280g and move them into there straight from the 75g you may ask? .. I'm not sure. I guess mostly because I want the 75g out of the way so I can do the electrical for the 280g. And also to help defray the costs some more of recent purchases. Kinda disappointed that I see hardware I was hoping to use one day, listed for sale at great prices, and completely unable to buy them because I'm flat out broke. :( But also just in that I get to a point where all I can see is "obstacle" (in this case, the 75g) and maybe a more creative person could find a way to workaround said obstacle, I just become obsessed with removing the obstacle, .. which tends to cost me time. What's weird is I'm noticing the same pattern in my work as well, so it's clearly a bit of a mental thing. :neutral:

fishytime
01-28-2009, 04:23 PM
If ya need a hand with anything(Ya know like babysitting clams or coral:mrgreen:... More seriously, moving stuff.) Tony let me know.

lastlight
01-28-2009, 05:30 PM
Same here...and I'm close by. I'm broke two so maybe we can both have a laugh and a reasonably-priced beverage over that.

digital-audiophile
01-28-2009, 05:42 PM
I'm always happy to help too, Tony.

Rbacchiega
01-28-2009, 06:51 PM
I'll offer...again LOL.

Sheesh, with everyone willing to help Tony you should be able to get this tank up and running in no time!

Delphinus
01-28-2009, 09:29 PM
:redface: Uh, thanks..

What I really need help with is babysitting!! The last few people who came to get stuff from me can attest to what a gong show my house is with two boys. (Only 2, but can feel like 12.)

In a couple weeks time I'll need help with the sump, I'll be sure to bug you guys then. Thanks!!

ElGuappo
01-28-2009, 09:46 PM
I WOULD HELP, but i have seen that sump and there is NO way.:twised:
Just kidding if you need a hand (and i know you will as i have seen the sump) just drop me a line.

andestang
01-29-2009, 12:26 AM
I'm also in for lending a hand Tony. I'm so glad for you that your making some great progress :cool:. Makes me want to move on, but right now I feel like folding.

Delphinus
01-29-2009, 12:43 AM
Oh no, what's up? Sorry to hear that, hope it's just a temporary thing.. :(

thanks for the offer though!

brizzo
02-12-2009, 01:35 AM
I guess technically the next step is I have to come back into the country. I'm currently in South America on a work trip! (Hola from Buenos Aires. Isn't it grand to waste international bandwidth on surfing one's favourite reef discussion forum??) Anyhow, it's, ah, slowed me down a little at the moment.


*cough* ..... *echo of a cough*


:razz::razz::razz::razz:

lastlight
02-12-2009, 03:06 AM
I chased you here yet again. I fear the wrath of Tony will be upon us =)

Delphinus
02-12-2009, 05:58 AM
I'll try to get some pictures up in the next day or two. :redface: I've been working on stuff, although more of it is trying to find the basement floor. I'm pretty sure I left it there somewhere under the massive strata of junk. On a totally unrelated note, I was somewhat dismayed last night to find that I've kept some 500-600 plant pots from my orchid and African violet growing days. Does, ah, anyone want some? Because I fear they are directly responsible for sapping my mental health, so I've got to get them out of my basement. Honestly. Who keeps this many empty plant pots? Hooray for Green Gate and their recyling bin of plant pots, I'm about to make a huuuuuge donation.

Just so I can say I've talked about the tanks, I've been slowly emptying the 75g into the 115g so I can hopefully take down the 75g soon and frame the wall that needs to go right where that tank is standing. A FTS of the 115g will be soon, it, ah, is starting to look slightly full. Apparently I have a thing for gorgs and clams because right now it is a "gorg and clam" kind of a tank. I did lose a clam in the transfer, it was one I had moved before I left so I was sort of surprised it went under last week after looking really good and settled for a few weeks. Just one night it spawned, the next night it looked pretty rough, the next day it was a total goner. :( I also had a bit of a problem on Monday with a powerhead suddenly tripping a GFCI. Of course it first tripped about 5 minutes after I had gone to bed the night before and so in the morning the water was kinda cool, fish were OK but the last cleaner shrimp I had didn't make it. I had been trying to catch him to get him out of the 115g because I will be moving my flame hawk next and well, didn't want to get eaten, but unfortunately I guess I don't need to worry about that happening anymore. :(

And just so I can say I did talk about the 280g, my t5 reflectors and sockets arrived the other day so the next hardware project is trying to shoehorn them all onto the lighting rack. 8x24w's mounted perpendicular as per Michika's/KrazyKuch's tank and suggestion, but I'm not sure what I'll be mounting the sockets onto just yet, I need some aluminum plating about 2" wide or something like that.

Rbacchiega
02-12-2009, 07:13 AM
If you've got any of the water catcher tray thingers that go under the pots I could put em to good use. They're nice and shallow so the tortoises can get in them and drink easily....

michika
02-12-2009, 01:33 PM
Congrats on more progress Tony, and I'm sorry about your clam that didn't make it.

Do you still need help with the sump?

Delphinus
02-21-2009, 05:03 AM
Finally caught my sixline wrasse and moved him over to everyone's temporary home now, the 115g cube. Hope to start stringing some wire this weekend. It will be closer to next weekend before I can shutdown my 75g. It's an odd feeling: I'm a little sad I'm shutting down a tank I've had running for nearly 8 years. But I'm also excited and eager because it means I'm moving onto newer, and bigger things.

Here's a FTS of everyone in their temporary home:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P2210059.jpg

I didn't get a chance to clean the glass after letting the wrasse in so there's a few salt streak lines. Whoops. And of course you can't see him because he has the ability to morph into solid rock.. but otherwise everyone seems to be getting along just fine and everyone seems to approve of their new digs..

christyf5
02-21-2009, 05:28 AM
Fantastic Tony! :cool: Everything looks so vibrant.


Now get to work on that 280!! :Banane26:

fishytime
02-21-2009, 02:54 PM
Man that sailfin is absolutely gorgeous.

Rbacchiega
02-21-2009, 05:02 PM
sheesh...enough clams? You should give me one. I'll take the blue one riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight theeeere

Snappy
02-21-2009, 08:24 PM
Way to go Tony!!!

lastlight
02-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Cube has a nice natural look to it...and that sailfin is so boss! I was pretty sure the only tang in the new tank would be a kole...but that thing is gorgeous!

So the tank you're taking down is simply in the way of your new tank stuff?

danny zubot
02-22-2009, 04:40 AM
Hey Tony, where is the monster who used to reside in that cube? Sorry if I missed that info, but I haven't been around much lately.

Glad to see things are moving along! I'm sad that I won't be able to see the new tank in person now.......unless you host a reef meeting in the future.:wink: Then it would be worth while to drive back for a visit.

High tide
02-22-2009, 05:23 AM
Nice clam tank! That is one huge maxima on the sand, how big is that thing?

Delphinus
02-22-2009, 06:12 AM
High Tide - thanks, "Big Bertha" there is actually a squamosa. Had him/her almost 4 years now, was more like 5"-6" back then and is now easily the size of a football. At one point there actually was a commensal shrimp living inside, although lately I haven't been able to get a glimpse of it in a while - the way the clam sits in this tank, the inhalant siphon is facing away from the glass so you can't peek inside anymore. Here's a fuzzy picture I once was able to snap though:
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/aquaria/clams/shrimp_in_squamosa1.jpg

Cash - yeah, apparently I have an addictive personality or something. Right now there are only 12 though, I'm sure Michika still has me beat! :lol: It doesn't help (or maybe, "it does help", I'm not sure, it depends on one's point of view), that I haven't been able to grow SPS of any kind to save my life for the last couple of years .. but clams have been doing well, so just started focusing on them instead. And next thing I knew I was sort of "uhhh, how did I end up buying so many of these things?" .. But I just love tridacnids. I love the textures and patterns and iridescences and colours .. so I guess that doesn't help either. :redface: Easily my favourite part of the hobby, followed by gorgonians.

Lastlight - thanks! Yeah, the 75g is sort of in the way of getting my electrical signoff, so in my mind it has to come down before I can progress on the 280g. It's sitting right where a wall needs to be framed up, and I'm just sort of hoping to have the permitation and inspection done once instead of a couple of times.

I'm really digging the look of the cube at the moment. For the most part the fish all know each other and seem to get along comfortably (touch wood). I was a little worried how the resident doliatus pair would take to the tang getting moved into their tank .. but it was a complete non-issue - actually, it's been good for them. (They're schooling behind him. "DAD! Wait up, don't leave us behind!!!") Suddenly they are less skittish, and they are coloured up more than ever.

Danny - I had to sell that thing. It was an enormous burden and the novelty of such a large anemone without being able to keep fish in the tank was grinding me down. Ironically, I meant to tear down and sell the cube within a week of selling it - but then Michika had a tank disaster and I ended up babysitting some fish for her. It was literally perfect timing - she needed tank space and I suddenly had an almost empty and perfectly cycled tank. Then by the time the fish went to their real home again I had already decided to use the 115g as a bridge solution for getting my 75g down before the 280g is ready to take on fish.

I hope I can host a reef meet by say summertime.. it's been a while since we had these things regularly so maybe that can be a goal??

Lance
02-22-2009, 06:22 AM
That's cool Tony! I've heard of pearls in oysters; but shrimps in clams, that's a new one to me.

Delphinus
02-22-2009, 06:30 AM
Yeah I was totally surprised especially given that the clams are (presumably) aquacultured, but I guess the ocean is still the ocean and anything goes! :) FWIW, it was suggested to me at RC that it could be Conchodytes tridacnae or Anchistus miersi (thread here, if anyone's interested: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=855961& )

High tide
02-22-2009, 07:13 AM
That's awesome, interspecific relationships are wild! Nice shot of it as well! You're clam fooled me, that would've been the biggest maxima i'd ever seen!!! Beautiful display!

michika
02-22-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm glad it went over well, the 110 looks really good. I always loved the shape of that tank and the way you've aquascaped it.

Let me know if you need any wiring help today. Kevin is in town today, and again next weekend if you want. I also want to come and ogle your clams some more. For the record, I think I have 13 clams.

Rbacchiega
02-22-2009, 03:12 PM
. For the record, I think I have 13 clams.


Yeah, yeah....well I have..... two :hat:

banditpowdercoat
02-23-2009, 01:45 AM
Yeah, yeah....well I have..... two :hat:


I got NONE......:sad:

andestang
03-13-2009, 12:49 AM
I'd thought I'd give this a bump and see if you have any new progress of late. Its looking good so far.

lastlight
04-09-2009, 07:14 AM
cat poo > dog poo.

digital-audiophile
04-09-2009, 12:09 PM
You know, my daughter turns two next month... and I am pretty sure I helped lift that tank up on the stand before she was even born :p LOL!

christyf5
04-09-2009, 02:30 PM
:rofl: man thats sad!!

Delphinus
04-09-2009, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I pretty much have had about 3 weekends to myself since then that I can work on this. You'll all be sorry when I drop dead! At least that's what I keep telling my family and then they laugh.

lastlight
04-09-2009, 02:54 PM
You're staff though. Doesn't that like mean you have superpowers or something? Just get'er done! Everyone's in bed here by 10. That's when daddyTime starts!

Rbacchiega
04-09-2009, 02:56 PM
we should have a side pot for who's tank gets saltwater in there first....anyone?

christyf5
04-09-2009, 02:59 PM
LOL, I have a tank in a storage locker, a new house purchased and have to sell my house before we take posession June 15. Then I have to tear down a wall, build a stand and get the tank on it and plumbed.

I STILL think I'll have water in mine before Tonys :razz:

Delphinus
04-09-2009, 03:09 PM
Next time the old hag visits me at 2am, I'll send her over to you guys and then maybe she can unparalyze me and I'll work on this tank. It's time she starts harrassing someone else.

It's really not as simple as "just get 'er done." I wish it was, but it's not.

Delphinus
04-09-2009, 03:11 PM
Ok, apparently that might be a bit obtuse. I'm not talking about my wife. Google it if you're wondering WTF I'm talking about. :)

lastlight
04-09-2009, 03:13 PM
i'm down with everyone putting a ton of money into a pot for us to race for =)

There could be a bonus arm-wrestle or thumb-war at the end?

Tony we should start ETA. That's Empty Tank Anonymous.

Rbacchiega
04-09-2009, 03:19 PM
"Old Hag" as in "old hag syndrome" Tony?

Watch with the way karma's been kicking my ass lately both of your tanks will never see an issue once their done...mine will become a hair algae/cyano algea forrest

Myka
04-09-2009, 05:31 PM
I could be part of the ETA group!! I just reread this whole thread (I'm horrible for not following build threads), and I laughed when I came across my comment on page one saying I couldn't picture what you're talking about. I was like, uh what was I talking about??? :lol:

karazy
04-09-2009, 05:38 PM
Haha, if the ETA group started earlier i probably would have joined.

sadly, im coming into quite a bit of money so it shud be up soon.


almost 1.5 years planning and setting up my 29 gall. wooo!

Rbacchiega
04-09-2009, 07:19 PM
sadly, im coming into quite a bit of money so it shud be up soon.


You should be banned for such comments :D

karazy
04-09-2009, 07:27 PM
You should be banned for such comments :D

hahaha,i just re-read that and i was like, why the heck am i saying sadly???

(sorry for hi-jackin your thread a bit delphin)

michika
04-09-2009, 09:31 PM
You should be banned for such comments :D

No banning, you should be forced to spread the cash around to everyone so we can all benefit! Then you can be banned! :mrgreen:

And just so this stays on track. What can we help you with Tony? Better yet starting next week Kevin will be but two blocks from your house working, so I'm going to have him drop off that plastic mesh if you still want it.

banditpowdercoat
04-09-2009, 09:49 PM
Haha, if the ETA group started earlier i probably would have joined.

sadly, im coming into quite a bit of money so it shud be up soon.


almost 1.5 years planning and setting up my 29 gall. wooo!

You should be banned for such comments :D

He should be banned for THIS comment LOL I think I've spilled more RO/DI water than 29g in a year LOL

christyf5
04-09-2009, 09:55 PM
ROFL that is pretty funny. I could have a 29g set up in like 30 minutes start to finish, and thats with a limited budget too :biggrin:

1.5 years man, what have you been doing? :razz:

karazy
04-09-2009, 10:55 PM
ROFL that is pretty funny. I could have a 29g set up in like 30 minutes start to finish, and thats with a limited budget too :biggrin:

1.5 years man, what have you been doing? :razz:

Lol, having the budget of a 12-14 year old makes it hard. (specialy with 4 other FW tanks to maintain)
plus i had zero saltwater equiptment from other tanks so i had to set up an RO system, get salt mixing stations set up, ect ect.

but my job at elite aquatics has helped a ton

Rbacchiega
04-09-2009, 10:57 PM
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY TONY'S TANK







hijack over

Delphinus
04-09-2009, 11:23 PM
I'm one of the worst offenders for hijacks, so it's all good. :)

Hopefully when life settles down a bit for me I can get this project off the backburner again. It's not like there's been NO progress of late, just not of enough significance to post about.

If I hadn't have had 3 other SW tanks and a FW planted tank on the go this would probaby have been done years ago. Maybe. I've also been fighting off hobby burnout off and on during this time .. so sometimes the focus just gets left to "just keep what I have already going". Or it comes down to I need to save up pennies for the next purchase or whatever.. stuff like that.

Skimmerking
04-10-2009, 12:57 AM
your are just lazy man, get rid if the other tank and that SO Called Fresh something and get that tank going. come on Tony...:smile:

good thing you are not working for the goverment we would never get anything done.......:mrgreen:

kien
06-19-2009, 08:24 PM
Wow, Tony, you weren't kidding when you said your build thread was a little behind :-) I thought maybe I'd inspire you a little by resurrecting your thread. Or I'll just end up ****ing you off by reminding you of the dauntingly massive task ahead..

I have to admit, I feel a little guilty now that I can hit you up at work for work and reef related questions. :redface: I will be sure to try and queue up all of my questions and ask them all at once.

"So, Tony, my protocol is having issues polling, and my blue tang has ich, what do I do?" :lol:

Delphinus
06-19-2009, 08:40 PM
:rofl: Oh my. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :lol: / :cry:

I need a couple days off then I might be able to make some headway. In the last couple weeks I've been trying to located a local supplier for Thorite so I can do some creative aquascaping but haven't been able to find anything as yet (not that I've had an awful lot of time to faithfully pursue the search though). Stuff just keeps piling up!

Skimmerking
06-19-2009, 08:51 PM
tony i wouldnt worry about the thorite just use zap straps and pvc

lastlight
06-19-2009, 09:39 PM
marco rocks has threaded nylon nuts and bolts I might try.

Delphinus
06-19-2009, 11:27 PM
I totally went into this thinking I would do the rod thing as well .. I went as far as buying acrylic rods. In the end I just don't want to bother drilling the rocks. I have a hard enough time getting rocks to fit together "just so" anyhow, so I figure I'm further ahead to just do it once and then cement the pieces together rather than try to find the right angle to drill and then wiggle the rock onto the rod and etc. etc.

I did find a different product - forget the name now but I can check it later and post back if it works out - like Thorite it is a "polymer based patching compound" so theoretically it should also be tank safe. However I'm going to test it first, I'll put a bunch together and let it sit in water overnight and see if the pH changes at all.

Then again, some people just use regular old cement .. Since it's a small amount comparitively the pH spike might be minimal and since the tank sits empty anyhow at first to cycle maybe it's a non issue..

StirCrazy
06-20-2009, 03:07 AM
Then again, some people just use regular old cement .. ..

and some just stack there rock so it won't fall over :mrgreen:

Steve

Delphinus
06-20-2009, 06:25 AM
I dunno. I think you have more possibilities if you can reinforce it. Plus, stuff just happens that you can't plan for. Like right now in my 115g, I have a 4-5lb rock on top with a clam glued to it that is constantly being jostled. I have no idea who's responsible for shifting it around like that, but every few days I'll find it in a slightly different orientation.

Seen a couple tanks that mortared the rock structures and I thought they looked good. But .. well, we'll see, I don't have much of a knack for aesthetic rock placement so maybe it will just look like butt in the end anyhow.

Parker
06-20-2009, 06:49 PM
I was thinking about building pillars for mine and reinforcing with great stuff covered in epoxy and sand.

Jack
06-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Sanjay used Thorite and I've gotta say it looks pretty sweet. He has a thread on reefcentral about how he did his rock work but I don't have the link.

Here's the youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psoP8ZEMjO0&feature=PlayList&p=DBA1394ADC80A036&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=22

Jack
06-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Ah, found the thread for you. It explains the use of Thorite ect.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=730564&perpage=10&pagenumber=66

Got to page 69 for the full tank pics.

Delphinus
06-22-2009, 06:28 PM
... Having a complete beehive of a time trying to locate Thorite. The product name of Thorite seems to refer to 2 or 3 different but similar products. The best I'm able to do so far is locate three buckets of "Thorite 400" in Edmonton. It turns out that the product name itself from BASF is discontinued and replaced with a new product line "Emaco" but it is unclear to me whether it is just the name itself that has changed or whether the composition as well has changed, rendering the "I know it's safe to use based on blind faith" aspect completely null and voided. Reading up at RC has been completely futile as there's only casual passing references to various differnet products ranging from "it's completely safe" to "I can't find this stuff where can I find it" (to which there are responses like "use THIS stuff instead, it's sort of safe" or "Just use acrylic rods, I'm so helpful I rule!!"). Anyhow I am now trying to check whether Emaco GP is any easier to locate, or perhaps Emaco S110. Apparently these are the closest things to what Thorite USED to be, but it's still unclear to me whether "GP" and "S110" refer to the same product. To confuse matters, the same product may have different names whether inside or outside the U.S.

Soooo ... this is starting to feel like a complete wildgoose chase and/or fiasco and I'm about ready to say "This isn't worth it." But I'll spend a few more hours on this and see where it takes me, if I get anywhere I'll post some findings since it seemed there were a couple others who were interested in finding Thorite.

fishytime
06-23-2009, 12:14 AM
Have you seem Khaosinc's thread on RC?(if you havnt I highly recommend reading it...by far one of the most entertaining threads Ive ever read) http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1650383 He used spray foam to bond his structures together....I never really looked into it, as far as how many others have used it, is it reef safe etc...might be worth checking out.

JDigital
06-23-2009, 01:38 AM
Have you seem Khaosinc's thread on RC?(if you havnt I highly recommend reading it...by far one of the most entertaining threads Ive ever read) http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1650383 He used spray foam to bond his structures together....I never really looked into it, as far as how many others have used it, is it reef safe etc...might be worth checking out.

:eek: Wow... That's a sweet build!

danny zubot
06-23-2009, 02:50 AM
My brother in Calgary has used spray foam twice in his 90 gallon tank. He claims that it dries inert but still manages to break down over time. If you apply it too quickly or thickly, it will likely warp once the water is in the tank. It is also not immune to breakage, scrapage, gouging etc. Which looks a bit unsightly. He always used the "Mono" type foams that come in a can. There may be other types of foam out there that will stand up better in an aquarium.

In my experience as an insulator for a while, I should tell you though that no foam dries completely inert. At least, not when used as it was intended. They ALL off gas over time, and some more than others. There are open cell foams and closed cell foams, sugar based, and poly based. I for one, wouldn't trust any of them in my tank.

Just my 2 cents about the foam thing....back to you Tony!:wink:

lastlight
06-23-2009, 03:19 AM
Wow shouldn't have clicked that RC link. There went an hour of time I needed for some work!

As for this whole thorite thing...all you need to do is check out the bonsai inspired thread on RC to know that rods are a great alternative.

Delphinus
06-23-2009, 03:34 AM
Thanks, but .. I'm not really interested in drilling rocks and nor really interested in foam. Sorry, just one of those things. I have a vision, and if it takes me longer to stay to that vision so be it. It's not like I have any shame left with the timing on this, so what's a little longer.

That link is crazy. I skipped forward a few pages and see pictures of his open heart surgery and I was all .. Ok I missed something there. For a minute there too I thought all the little electrical things next to his bed were part of his sump room or something. :lol:

Delphinus
10-21-2009, 10:39 PM
Well, seeing lastlight and Parker update their threads I thought I'd give this thread a little resurrection to make it a gang of 3. Christy's not gonna believe what she missed on whilst sipping Juan's margarita's.

Last night I installed an electrical outlet box on one of my walls! Well, it's just the box part, no wires yet. But it's *totally* bolted onto the aluminum C-channel the outside basement walls are framed up with. And I didn't quite put the vapour barrier back.

I know, it sounds like, not a lot. But the prep work that had to go into it was insane. For one, the spot where I'm starting is adjacent to where I had my old 75g standing and the aluminum studs were seriously rusty (aluminum rusts? who knew!) So I had to rebuild part of that wall. I came out of that experience with a newly found profound hatred of metal studs for walls.

And Ok, I lied. I have done more than this since June. But it's hardly measurable stuff. Like, I put 4 circuits into the tank room. This was a logistical nightmare that went beyond the usual amount of work for such a task because the wall where the outlets are, is framed crooked but it's a load bearing wall AND it's finished on the other side AND it's a stairwell so knocking it down and starting over wasn't an option, but trying to fix it as I go along is laborious. AND I only work on things on this project after 11pm at night, so it tends to go slow. Oh and AND I might kind of had to do it over a few times because I wasn't happy with the results. It also included decommissioning the old 2 circuits that ran the 75g and 110g tanks (which are still running) because they were never inspected and only meant as temporary anyhow. I think I spent 40 hours in total getting the circuits done up in 2-3 hour chunks at a time.

I also had an opportunity to pick up a golden dwarf eel, who now resides in my 110g cube. At first I wasn't concerned about him getting out. Then I decided that too often have I tempted fate in the past and gotten burned that it was just too risky to leave the tank open-top indefinitely, and even though the tank's days are numbered, it's still long enough that a curious eel who wants to get out, has enough time to try. So I built a canopy for that tank using pine 1x8's and a piano hinge and about 20 screws. My DIY skillz are the shizzle marblez! Eat your heart out Mr. Professional Cabinet Builder Fishytime, you're gonna cry with a jealous rage when you see this work of art. You may also decide that my creative use of tuck tape to hold the canopy down onto the tank is something you wish to incorporate into your own designs. It's ok, I didn't apply for a patent so no need to pay me royalties as yet.

Pictures to follow. Sometime soon. When I find my home computer and a camera to use and stuff like that.

lastlight
10-21-2009, 10:50 PM
Wow this night is already off the hook! Babysteps Tony! I also do all my work when everyone sleeps. Spent 3 nights now breaking my back trying to route cables in my crowded stand. Looking forward to some pics ;)

Dez
10-22-2009, 12:28 AM
Tagging along...........patiently

danny zubot
10-22-2009, 04:38 AM
I was going to ask for an update back in like August, but I knew you'd get around to it when you were ready.:wink: Looking forward to the new pics.

Delphinus
10-22-2009, 06:31 AM
So, here is the end product of the aforementioned 40 hours. I should mention that apart from redoing this several times, and even stepping down my original plans what I wanted (I wanted to do 6 circuits or 4 circuits of 20amps but gave up on that), I also ripped my tendon in my left thumb stripping some of the wires, swore, sweated, bled at times, and probably swore enough to scare a trucker. I'm not making any of this up, so, um .. I guess what I'm saying is please be kind when you critique the work. :lol:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/preview_p10100020.jpg

And, uh ... hmmm Ok apparently I haven't taken a picture of it with the drywall cover on it (it's just temporary, it will have to come off when the inspector comes). It, uh, looks way better with drywall and actual covers. So just imagine it looking better for now. I'll take a picture of it, uh, maybe tomorrow.

When I took down the old two "temporary" circuits I found one of the GFCI's like this. Yikes. I'm relieved those plugs are now history.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/preview_pa0301840.jpg

Here is my beautiful canopy for the 110g cube. I know, it's so beautiful you can't help but cry a little bit. Trust me, I know. I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the accolades to pour in now. Any moment now, I'm sure.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010005-1.jpg

Can you see the eel? I'm impressed, for a random shot you can see the eel, the dottyback, the rabbit, the tang (of course), the male bellus, and a chromis. Mind you, I'm gonna guess you might have to squint a bit since the tank part of the photo is so overexposed. Oopsadoodle. :redface: Hiding in this shot are the female bellus, the potter's, the blenny and the smaller chromis.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010006-2.jpg

Yeah, I wasn't really going for form over function. If I had put more than 20 minutes into it, I might have made it sit outside the perimeter. I just measured the outside dimensions, built the box and taped it down so no little eel could push his little head under it and still crawl out. The front panel I sliced with a table saw, put in the piano hinge and put the clips on the sides to hold it closed. Hopefully this will keep jumpers and crawlers in where they're supposed to be.

And I guess that's sort of it for "stuff I've built" for now. But, hey, since others folks have been know to post livestock pictures in build threads before the tanks are actually running, so, I might as well do it too, since I have kinda nowhere else to post the next bunch of pics. Here is just as good as any other place. :)

Golden dwarf eel poking his head out of some GSP..

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010001-2.jpg

Ember blenny from Carmen..
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010002-2.jpg

This was one of those 1/4" (yes, 1/4") RBTA's from Red Coral back in February. The story cracks me up: Kevin told his supplier "Please don't send huuuuge ones like the last ones you sent" and they sent these wee-little-tiny things smaller than your average majano. :lol: I was honestly afraid it wouldn't last longer than 2-3 days before disappearing forever, but it's held on. It's still pretty small but as you can see it's bigger than 1/4". I think it's really pretty with the spotting or starburst pattern or whatever that sparkle-glowy stuff ought to be called..
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010001-1.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/P1010002-1.jpg

Thanks for looking. :)

lastlight
10-22-2009, 07:19 AM
I so have to get me one of those ember blennies man. Yours seemed like a sly little guy peeking at me from down in the rocks.

And for a 20 minute canopy that IS pretty kickbutt. You even have a locking latch on the front come on!

Have you done anything with the sump yet?

Parker
10-22-2009, 01:19 PM
When I took down the old two "temporary" circuits I found one of the GFCI's like this. Yikes. I'm relieved those plugs are now history.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/preview_pa0301840.jpg


That's scary.. I've added checking out the plugs to my things to check on every once in awhile list

I think the wiring was a my least favorite part. I had to run circuits through finished basement walls.. What a pain to try and not pierce the vapor barrier.

My second mistake was placing my sump right up to the cabinet on the left. My electrical cabinet is the left hand cabinet so now if I want to run a plug into it I have to reach over and behind the sump to try and dangle the cord in front of the access hole at the back of the electrical cabinet.

Looks good Tony!

danny zubot
10-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Way to go Tony. I'm still using power bars so your electrical is far better than mine. Beautiful eel too.

Lance
10-22-2009, 10:36 PM
Tony, Brett and Robb all showing progress on their respective tank build: The world's coming to an end, I just know it. I'm rushing out of the house right now to cross a few things off my Life-To-Do-List. Tonight is sky diving and buying a couple of hours from the Russian hooker triplets.

lastlight
10-22-2009, 10:38 PM
While you're out I'm gonna help myself to a few heaters and salt if you don't mind.

Parker
10-22-2009, 11:25 PM
Tony, Brett and Robb all showing progress on their respective tank build: The world's coming to an end, I just know it. I'm rushing out of the house right now to cross a few things off my Life-To-Do-List. Tonight is sky diving and buying a couple of hours from the Russian hooker triplets.


Does that cost triple the single price or is there some kind of group rate?

andestang
10-22-2009, 11:50 PM
Must say I like that blenny, possible to get little better shot ? Also the dwarf is a beauty.

lastlight
11-06-2009, 08:10 AM
Uh oh =)

fishytime
11-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Also the dwarf is a beauty. Are we talking about the fish or???:lol:

Delphinus
11-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Uh oh =)

Yeah, your tank is looking nice. :cool: It's a bit of a FOWLRWTF though (fish only with live rock without the fish .. why, what did you think I meant with that?). Oh and except the rock was dry and so wasn't really live either. But FOWLRWTFAETRWDASWRLE is just getting a little too long of an acronym.

Mike I'll try to get some more shots up of those soon (they probably belong in a different thread though). The blenny is a little tease because he'll sit in one spot just long enough to let you think you can get a picture, but by the time the shutter goes, all you've got is a blur of the backside of his tail.

Actually the angels are darn near impossible to photograph too for that matter, they're never still and man they're fast. I don't know how people get such great photos of fish...

Progress on the build has ... once again .. stalled. This time it's work to blame. I've been working nights to get caught up on some things. Unfortunately it hasn't been enough, I've now been told I HAVE to finish one service call onsite so I'll be off next week to take care of it. Not too happy about things at the moment but .. I guess that's life.

lastlight
11-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Tony now that my build is done I've pretty much lost interest in my tank. If you don't mind cutting me some keys I can keep the plow moving for you!

Delphinus
12-19-2009, 06:08 AM
Well, I was sort of hoping to update this thread with some of the good progress that has happened (remember it's not really a tank build, it's a whole basement build, and all the good fun that comes with that).

However, ..

I'm just about at my limit with the unpleasant surprises. Tonight I found my concrete floor under the tank is disintegrating away (literally turning into powder).

Something of a showstopper. :( Is there anyone on the board in Calgary who is a concrete contractor or something of this nature and can please contact me? I need to discuss causes and cures and how I'm going to fix this. :(

I'd post pictures but I'm seriously ticked off at the moment and just want to walk away from it for a bit. :(

Funky_Fish14
12-19-2009, 10:17 AM
Tony - PM sent about the concrete.

Sorry to hear about the set-back!

christyf5
12-19-2009, 03:50 PM
Aww jeez Tony, if it isn't one thing its another :neutral:

I hope you can get it fixed without any major issues.

lastlight
12-19-2009, 05:45 PM
That sucks Tony. Hope you find an easy fix.

michika
12-19-2009, 06:15 PM
Tonight I found my concrete floor under the tank is disintegrating away (literally turning into powder).

This is the portion of the floor you painted correct? The is really scary. I don't blame you at all for wanting to walk away with something like this cropping up.

Let me know if there is anything Kevin and I can do to help you out.

Jason McK
12-19-2009, 06:46 PM
Oh NO Tony, Sorry to hear, I hope it's a simple fix and you can move forward

J

Delphinus
02-22-2010, 01:29 AM
The dream is alive and so maybe should this thread have injected a little life.

This won't look like much of an update but it does represent a major milestone for me. Tomorrow, Monday, is inspection day for the permits and so the wall framing is complete, the plumbing is complete, and the electrical rough-in is complete.

It doesn't sound like a lot, and won't look like a lot, but .. it has been an indescribably immense amount of work to get to this point. I divided my work out for myself into tasks that would take roughly 2-3 hours each, and there has been somewhere in the order of 80 to 100 of those since December - so you can well imagine I have sunk somewhere between 180 to 200 hours to get things to this point. Plus, that's not taking into account that with many tasks I estimate "2 to 3 hours" that ended up being "4 to 8 hours". :neutral:

I took a week off from work the first week of February and that made a HUGE dent into things. Ever since then it's been "2-3 hours here, 2-3 hours there" and a lot of late nights.

So, it is with a HUGE sigh of relief that I say "things are ready for inspection." Once passed inspection, or any deficiencies found during inspection are remediated, drywall can go up in the tank room and then I can concentrate on an actual tank build, and not so much a basement build. In fact, the rest of the basement will take a back seat to the tank project at that point. I am looking forward to that phase.

What's left at this point, the plugs in use and light switches have to be pulled out before inspection time and I will do that before going to bed tonight so that it's all ready for tomorrow.

I have been existing on 4 hours of sleep for the past few months and this is taking a toll on me physically. So after inspections tomorrow, I am not doing a single thing on the construction project all week. Not one thing all week! :lol: The following week the family & I are off to a beach vacation, and when we're back from that the drywalling will commence! I can't wait.

This is the view into the basement looking in from the bottom of the stairs. On the right is a hallway that skirts in behind the 2-piece bathroom/"powder room" that leads into the furnace room/utility room.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0007-0.jpg

A few steps forward and a turn to the left in the L-shaped hallway and that enters into the main rumpus area. The 280 is just ahead and to the left of the view point. You can see the existing 115g cube in the back there and the 40g carpet anemone tank is behind that.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0008-0.jpg

The next two photos show the mini-kitchen area - there will be a mini fridge here, microwave and a sink. I had to do a drop down for the ceiling there to work around the furnace and HRV vents. I extended this across the whole basement mainly for looks and also so I'd have somewhere to run the bathroom fan ("fart fan") ducting.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0009-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0010-0.jpg

And last the tank room itself. There's a preview of what the electrical will look like (I have to take it all apart now for inspection, oh well. :lol:)
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0011-0.jpg

And this is where the work sink goes. I took the sink out so the inspectors can get in there and see it all. My personal favourite feature is the pot light that will illuminate the sink when I'm working there.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/img_0012-0.jpg


As for the concrete issue, I ended up chipping out all the distressed concrete. Once it all dried out it wasn't as bad as I thought. There is about a 3' diameter section of floor where it's all chipped out, but there are no structural concerns. So I'm leaving it be.

Thanks for looking..

Skimmerking
02-22-2010, 01:38 AM
looks god Tony little by little its going to be done,

christyf5
02-22-2010, 01:40 AM
Wooty! Movin right along. Good luck on the inspection tomorrow, I'm sure you'll pass with flying colors! :biggrin:

lastlight
02-22-2010, 01:40 AM
Hell yeah! Onto the fun stuff soon. Keep us posted man.

Where's the holding cell for the son?

kien
02-22-2010, 01:50 AM
Oh ya it's on! :-D

let me know when you are ready to aquascape. Got my rods, zip ties and drill bits ready to go! :lol:

Jason McK
02-22-2010, 02:14 AM
WOW Tony It's looking really good. Can wait for the drywall.

Have a great vacation

J

Lance
02-22-2010, 02:18 AM
It's coming together now Tony! Drywall is the home stretch, then the fun begins.

fishytime
02-22-2010, 02:32 AM
Wow Tony.....sure looks different from I was there last......looks great man!

lastlight
02-22-2010, 02:35 AM
sure looks different from I was there last...

Did you help bring his tank home? He may not have even lived at this address Doug LOL =)

christyf5
02-22-2010, 02:51 AM
Did you help bring his tank home? He may not have even lived at this address Doug LOL =)

:rofl:

Delphinus
02-23-2010, 12:50 AM
Well .... alas, not quite ready for drywall. Did not pass the electrical or plumbing. Did at least pass the construction inspection, so the silver lining is I'm not in danger of losing my permits in March.

Wasn't really expecting to pass electrical so not a huge surprise, at least the findings were minor. Some were due to me misreading what constituted as "ready for rough in inspection", others were "I just didn't know you needed to do that." For example of the first kind, the guidelines state "Please note: do not secure plugs, switches, and lights to outlet boxes on first inspection. If you wish to to terminate the devices and surface mount lights to the wires for this inspection, do not fasten to the electrical boxes." I misinterpreted this to mean that I didn't *have* to install plugs and just hang the wires out of the boxes. Where I went wrong is that pigtail splices still need to be done. Ok so my bad. I totally see the requirement now above this line. :redface: No big deal.

Other things like the outer sheath was extending more than 1/4" past the cable clamps in some boxes .. and single gang boxes that have splices need to be 3" deep, and I used 2.5" for all of them. So 3 of those need to be replaced.

Again no big deal - I didn't really know where I was going to be deficient, now I do .. so it's all good. Won't take very long to correct these and get him back in to reinspect.

The real disappointment of the day was the plumbing fail. The culprit is the laundry sink in the tank room draining into the floor drain. Apparently this is a huge no-no. :nono: I've been directed to jackhammer the floor, hard plumb the drain into the 3" line in the concrete (ie., the line for the floor drain), and vent the sink drain to the roof or to the nearest vented drain stem.

I guess I'll be fixing that off-centre floor drain after all. :lol:

Oh well. Live and learn and move forward.

Skimmerking
02-23-2010, 01:08 AM
Why are you letting people in your house Tony when you are doing reno's do dry wall it and done i never tell the city about my reno's on many times i get the city can we come in and inspect your house and I say nope you can inspect from the sidewalk.

Lance
02-23-2010, 01:14 AM
Tony, can you remove the laundry sink for now? After passing inspection you can go ahead and run it into the floor drain.

Delphinus
02-23-2010, 01:33 AM
I dunno. It would look mighty strange having a sink hookup without a sink. I would not be able to bluff my way through it if I was asked what's up with that. I totally didn't see it coming either. Surely I'm not the only one who's ever done that .. the HRV drains into the floor drain, the hot water tank overflow .. the A/C .. all just lines that hang into the floor drain. It was like 2 minutes into the inspection when he was all "well, we're done here, sorry."

And why bother with the permits? I don't know. I'm starting to understand why people don't bother. At the end of the day, if all goes well .. your taxes go up. :neutral: So what's the incentive? ... In my case, I've just learned to be a pessimist. If something goes wrong, who's liability is it? And if we sell the house down the road what then.

In fact it's my total lack of poker face ability that got me into the permits mess in the first place. I just wanted electrical .. I went to city hall and the guy's first question was "why do you want an electrical permit? Are you developing your basement, by any chance?" "Well, ah, not .. really .. er .. yes, yes I am..." "Ok then you need to fill out this and this and that .. and .. ok there you go! You're now officially 3 permits richer than you were 20 minutes ago." "Uh, thanks ..."

lastlight
02-23-2010, 01:36 AM
Exactly. For my really basic basement reno I'm putting my laundry tub in after I pass inspection. Will rip it out if I ever sell.

Delphinus
02-23-2010, 01:38 AM
Not helping... :p

lastlight
02-23-2010, 01:38 AM
On the sale of my house the sellers were going to withhold $5000 if I didn't provide my basement permits. Everyone buying these days demands to see permits. At the very least it makes selling a home easier.

But yeah I won't have my pex or tub in. Run all of it after inspection and remove if I ever leave.

Delphinus
02-23-2010, 01:42 AM
Actually as annoying as it is, I still assume that the requirements are in place for a reason and that reason is probably more elaborate than "we're the city and we like jerking you guys around" (no, really, I'm sure there's more to it than that. I have faith..) .. So, if it's not 100% right, it's good that I know about it and correct it properly. I don't want anything lingering over me "I wonder if this is not right.."

fishoholic
02-23-2010, 03:58 PM
Actually as annoying as it is, I still assume that the requirements are in place for a reason and that reason is probably more elaborate than "we're the city and we like jerking you guys around" (no, really, I'm sure there's more to it than that. I have faith..) .. So, if it's not 100% right, it's good that I know about it and correct it properly. I don't want anything lingering over me "I wonder if this is not right.."

I tend to agree, if you didn't do it the way it's suposed to be done and you run into problems later you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it right in the first place.

kien
02-23-2010, 04:09 PM
Not to mention if you flood your basement or burn something due to electrical issues the insurance company could ask for your permits. Even if it passed there would likely be an investigation which could bring out some nasty skeletons in your basement! "Looks like your tub flooded the basement. Oh, your plumbing passed so its okay! Oh wait, this tub wasn't here during inspection, sorry Mr. Tony, the flood is your problem, so long see ya!"

mark
02-23-2010, 05:54 PM
I'm really wondering about insurance companies denying a claim if no permit was issued. Guess would need to re-read the fine print on the policy but don't remember seeing the clause "no permit, declined".

Could see problems if there was a gross violation, like the lights from the grow-op, powered by the bypassed meter causing a fire, but really questioning that if I wired a receptacle, without a permit, to code using the proper wire, enclosures, etc...

As for the value of permits my little rant. I was at my new place when the final occupancy permit was signed off by the City. The gas line (no meter) had yet to be hooked up, so technically no heat or hot water, deck construction was approved (spacing between boards etc) though all the timber was sitting on the ground in the backyard still with the steel banding. Later the permit process frustrated me with the builder as got from him "City signed off, to bad" and from the City 'pay an engineer to produce a report, we'll admit we missed, the builder will walk and we'll come after you until fully resolved to our total and complete satisfaction or you can just drop it'.

Parker
02-23-2010, 06:31 PM
I'll be honest and say I didn't permit for the electrical I did for my tank. If it becomes a problem when I sell the house then I'll yank them out, it would take me all of an hour. I had an electrician friend of mine look it over, said it's all good.

I do plan to finish off the unfinished portion of my basment with a bathroom and another spare beadroom and I will permit for those changes.

I didn't permit for the reno's to the main floor but I technicaly didn't move anything, plumbing didn't change, electrical didn't change, a couple outlets may have been moved a few feet but nothing was rewired. I could get hasseled for removing a load bearing wall and putting in a header but that can be inspected from the attic if I ever needed to have it done.

Delphinus
02-23-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't really mind the electrical not passing. Even though part of it not passing was simply my misinterpretation of what constituted "ready" and part of it was "Ok I have to redo some of it", the list is not that bad, won't take me more than a couple days and after that it will all be to code.

What irks me is the plumbing. I plan to put a bathroom downstairs eventually but finances being a problem these days, my plan was to sit on it until well into the future. But since taking time off work to go to city hall and all that is a hassle, I decided to get the permit now and be done with it. I *thought* all I needed to show for the plumbing to get passed was just a "rough in" - roughly, the water comes from here..and roughly the water drains into that pipe there. The bathroom has a toilet and sink rough-in already but only one capped-off T. I was just going to T into this stem for the bathroom sink and mini-kitchen sink that sits on the other side. But it turns out that this isn't good enough, I need to rough-in BOTH T's for the sinks. Ok, no big deal there either: a hacksaw and $10 worth of ABS and ABS cement and I'm done.

The tank room sink is what really has me choked. Never in a 100 years did I anticipate I was going to be failed based on a laundry sink that I use to rinse a protein skimmer with because it drains into an existing floor drain. What has me doubly-choked on the whole thing is that when I built the house, I ASKED FOR A SINK ROUGH-IN. Between my cost-sensitive spouse and a housebuilder's sales lady who was doing her best to keep our build costs under control, I was out numbered and this option was struck from the list "because the floor drain is good enough." So the cost for saving $100, 6 years ago, is now today I have to foot probably about $1000 bill to have this work done. Even if I were to do it myself it will be HUGE pain to route a vent through the ceiling trying to work around HRV and furnace vents and who-knows-what just to tie it into the nearest pipe stem that's vented all the way up to the roof.

I'm just incredulous when I think of it. I thought it would all be about how the lines tie in and any issues with pipes pressing up against nails or whatever that could cause a leak. In the end, he couldn't have cared less about the supply lines. That part of the inspection was done in less than a minute and it was all fine. It was the drainage that he was all incredibly anal about and really the inspection was done in 2 minutes because he just ended it when I told him the tank room sink was draining into the floor drain. He was in and out in less than 5 minutes. And I had to take a day off work and sit at home and wait for 8 hours for that 5 minutes that ended so rather dissatisfactorily. I am NOT HAPPY. :(

I am giving serious consideration to "officially" removing the laundry sink from the plans.

With the electrical - everything - I understand there's a safety issue. After consideration, I fail to see the safety issue of a laundry sink that drains into a floor drain. Is the concern that the pipe could get kicked loose and water drains onto the floor? Is that any worse than tripping while carrying a bucket full of water?

I don't know. It's not the sort of thing I dare to say "I told you so" to my wife but at the same time I'm really annoyed with myself that I didn't stick to my guns back then.

Carmen
02-23-2010, 08:29 PM
OMG Tony....My head hurts just reading all this! So sorry to hear! This is just crap when you really think of it! Super bummed that you`ve run into these obstacles!:sad::sad:

Delphinus
03-13-2010, 03:56 AM
I wonder how much longer I can stretch this tank journal without there actually being a tank. In fact .. I can't think of a single incidence of a more comical build where there have been so many challenges and obstacles and not a one of them have anything to do with actually running or building a TANK. :neutral: If there was a prize for "longest start ever" I would hope I'd be in the running for it by now.

Anyhow, tried to hire a friend of mine who's a licensed plumber to take care of the drain install. When we finally connected and I explained what the situation was, he stopped me. He said, "You don't need to hire me or anyone, what you're doing is not against code. It's called an indirect drain, and as long as it's into a properly vented and trapped floor drain you're not doing anything illegal or against code. In fact give me the inspectors name and number so I can call him and talk to him about this."

Unfortunately I can't take him on that offer as the inspector did not put any of that info in his deficiency report. In fact, the whole report is a bit ... lacking. It just says "Homeowner is no ready for inspection." Stellar. I'll be calling for another inspection and this time I'll stand my ground a little more I think. 1) Challenge him on the drain issue and press for an explicit listing of what item of code it's in violation of. 2) If there are actual deficiencies, they need to be itemized and listed out explicitly on the report.

My gut feeling here is that he came at 10 minutes from the end of his work day (3:50) and had already mentally checked out of work. And I just said "DURF DURF DURF OK ! THANKS !" ... That won't be happening again.

But, since I got all geared up for renting a jackhammer anyhow, and I have to move a poo pipe for toilet placement in the bathroom, I've rented a jackhammer for tomorrow and will be going at the concrete in there. It's sort of the last weekend I'll have for a bit where Linda won't be working and thus I won't be spending the weekend entertaining my two boys (aged 4 and 1, the real reason I can't get much progress on this build some days..), so might as well take advantage of it.

Anyhow, not sure if anyone's listening anymore but this is the closest thing I have to a blog so there you have it. :lol: Thanks for reading..

kien
03-13-2010, 04:05 AM
:sleeping: .. Wh.. whuh.. what, huh? Did someone say something??

Hehe, just jokes Tony! I think that's actually pretty good news about the plumbing! Man that would royally **** me off, how can someone that's an "inspector" tell you that something is not to code when that's an outright lie?? Don't they have a code of ethics?! Jeez Louise! Too bad he didn't leave his name. I would almost call city hall and give them a stern word. I'm sure they have a record at city as to who came out to your house. But then I guess you don't necessarily want to go rocking any boats.

Delphinus
03-13-2010, 04:15 AM
Yeah, I figure, either I didn't explain it right to the plumber (but I did show him pictures), or, the inspector didn't have a full understanding of what he saw either. I'm trying to extend him the benefit of the doubt about the "It's the end of the day, I dun wanna work no more today" thing but I have to admit it feels like a stretch. He was in and out so fast. It was less than 5 minutes from the time he walked in to the time he walked out. He didn't even really look at the sink. He just glanced at it and said "No."

I did think about calling the city to press this further but yeah, at this point, I just want the darn thing signed off so we can all just move along onto bigger and better things. Like maybe putting water in the tank. :neutral: If the second inspection turns out the same, I'm just going to pull the sink out and and say "Oh look at that. No more sink there. NOW please sign this off."

lastlight
03-13-2010, 04:33 AM
poo pipe!

fishytime
03-13-2010, 05:17 AM
poo pipe!

:lol:Geez Brett.....I nearly spit beer on my puter screen:lol:

Delphinus
03-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Poo pipe is moved.

I called the city via 311 today and figured, I'm going to get the definitive answer on the code here, and challenge them on the reasoning.

So. Here we go (drum roll please):

Yes, it's code to not allow anything other than clear water to indirectly drain into a floor drain. That means basically the condensation from your A/C, furnace, HRV, etc. ... and that's about it. I suppose RO/DI waste line would suffice as "clear water."

Anything other than that ... nope. MUST be drained directly and vented.

I asked, what about washing machines? Those are indirectly drained .. "That WAS allowed at one time, but not anymore."

So I asked why. This is rich, wait for it.

Soaps and anything else we silly people will dump into a sink drain will sit in the trap of the floor drain and begin to smell. That's when us silly people call the city to complain about our drains smelling of sewer, and they come check it out, and then find out that that it was just the stinky water in the drain trap. So no more will that petulant nonsense be allowed.

:neutral: Wish I were making this up.

banditpowdercoat
03-15-2010, 11:20 PM
Ohh I see. They change the code so THEY don;t have as much work to do... That is SO nice of them

Delphinus
03-15-2010, 11:39 PM
So my lesson learned after moving the poo pipe was that jackhammering concrete isn't all THAT bad, although if one was to do it near a tank they should put up a blast sheild because concrete debris was flying everywhere.

But I think about how it is to cut a linear length of pipe and insert a T fitting into it. You cut the pipe, move the cut pieces apart so that you can wrestle the fitting into it, and then jam the pieces back together. How do you do that when the upstream and downstream sections are still underground? They'll have absolutely no wiggle room... or you'd have to jackhammer the whole pipe out to the endpoint and relay it all the way to the end again.

No thanks.

One laundry sink coming right out of my basement.... guess my 4 piece plumbing permit just became a 3 piece.

banditpowdercoat
03-15-2010, 11:55 PM
it is a PITA to put a T in existing. basically ya you got to hammer out a bunch. BUT, you can get rubber pipe couplings that are sealed with hose clamps. It doesnt need to be the regular PVC joints. So with the rubber couplings on either end, you cut out a section, slide the couplings on either end, set back in place and slide couplings up over the pipe. Not as bad as you think

these are what I'm talking about

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/203416888/pipe_coupling.jpg

Delphinus
03-16-2010, 01:12 AM
I did sort of wonder about those but .. dunno, just doesn't seem as solid as cementing a joint. But I guess when you're in a bind, you do what you have to do ..

banditpowdercoat
03-16-2010, 01:22 AM
I did sort of wonder about those but .. dunno, just doesn't seem as solid as cementing a joint. But I guess when you're in a bind, you do what you have to do ..

Not solid, but they seal really well, AND, your going to be burried in dirt and cemented over, right, so no movement :D

Pazil
03-16-2010, 03:15 AM
So my lesson learned after moving the poo pipe was that jackhammering concrete isn't all THAT bad, although if one was to do it near a tank they should put up a blast sheild because concrete debris was flying everywhere.

But I think about how it is to cut a linear length of pipe and insert a T fitting into it. You cut the pipe, move the cut pieces apart so that you can wrestle the fitting into it, and then jam the pieces back together. How do you do that when the upstream and downstream sections are still underground? They'll have absolutely no wiggle room... or you'd have to jackhammer the whole pipe out to the endpoint and relay it all the way to the end again.

No thanks.

One laundry sink coming right out of my basement.... guess my 4 piece plumbing permit just became a 3 piece.

Tony the fittings for a 3 or 4" pipe usually have a 1" flang on either end.... Just cut the opening for the new tee about 1" shorter than the tee itself and slide the tee all the way to one side and then back on to the other side. You will end up with 1/2" insert on both sides.

Delphinus
03-16-2010, 03:20 AM
Ah ok. Yeah I see. Thanks! If I do decide to go ahead I guess it won't be so bad. It still sounds a whole lot easier to tell the inspector I've decided not to have a sink anymore. What happens after he leaves is ... well .. not his or the city's problem, unless I decide to do something really dumb, which I hope I wouldn't. I figure I can just remove the sink if I ever sell the place.

H2o2
03-16-2010, 03:46 AM
you can also get expanding pvc joints you cut section of pipe out glue in your t then a piece of pipe on the other side of t then glue on the expansion joint then put your glue on then just pull it out and push it on your pipe that doesnt move . all solid joints.get them at any farm irrigation store or andrew sherets in bc.

The Codfather
03-16-2010, 03:55 AM
Hey Tony, I might be in the city this weekend, I am a plumber by trade. If you want me to take a look, let me know, I am sure we can come up with something that will not involve a lot of work, like hammering up a floor. Just a thought.
Bob

Delphinus
03-16-2010, 05:48 AM
Thanks for the offer. I am sort of thinking of just go ahead and doing it and then not having to worry about it. Too bad I didn't come to this conclusion when I already had the jackhammer last weekend, but oh well, at $40 to rent, it could be worse.

I've figured out where the nearest drain vent is to the roof and determined that it is just a vent (ie., not a drain from any upstairs sink). So it won't be too bad to snake a 1.5" line through the ceiling over to it and tie it in.

The main thing is time, my wife works this weekend so I have to find me some babysitters to entertain the kids while I hammer away at the floor. I'm pretty sure the floor drain line runs right underneath the laundry sink so it just needs to come up and then Y-fitting it over to the vent line that will have to snake its way up the wall and through the ceiling. This might be something I can work on during the week after the kids have gone to bed - getting it all roughed in so that all that needs to be done on the weekend is the jackhammering, tie-in, and re-concrete-ing..

banditpowdercoat
03-16-2010, 01:28 PM
Helpin Dad is a GREAT babysitter for the kids LOL :D

fishytime
03-16-2010, 03:19 PM
Helpin Dad is a GREAT babysitter for the kids LOL :D

"here you go son.....hold this jackhammer for a second":lol:

banditpowdercoat
03-16-2010, 04:03 PM
"here you go son.....hold this jackhammer for a second":lol:

ya, mine was "Hold this cable, hold these wire strippers. Well, since you got both of them, you might as well do something!"

Delphinus
05-14-2010, 05:20 AM
Quick update. Passed the remedial inspections some time ago and have been drywalling.

In the end I did jackhammer the floor for the sink drain. Unlike the poo pipe it was a miserable experience, and I don't really want to get into it too much other than to say "it sucked."

Some pictures from tonight, excuse the mess. There's still a long way to go and I have to empty the room now so I can start sanding.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/100_0255-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/100_0256-0.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/a/d/a/119946/100_0257-0.jpg

I had been toying with idea of skinning the stand and canopy with faux rock similar to untamed's tank (although with slate or something different, not the river rock), but schedule coupled with budget concerns (ie., "no money anyhow and this is already taking way too long") and being hit lately with a few really large financial hits, made the decision for me. Simple drywall for the exterior skin it is. There is some debate as to whether I'll keep on with the bar counter as well. I'd like to do it, but as Linda pointed out, it would be the perfect noggin-knocking height for the boys and they don't really need more things with which to create more large bruises on their foreheads. So we'll see who wins that debate, I have something in mind that won't be too intrusive I think.

You can see the light reflector has been taken down; this is in preparation for getting the ceiling done in the tank room when I'll have a set of extra hands to help me with that on the weekend.

Words cannot describe how tiring this build is being right now.

christyf5
05-14-2010, 05:29 AM
Tony, it looks great. Seriously. I can only imagine the manhours you've put into this already but its coming along nicely even if not as fast as you'd hoped. At least its coming along!! Keep your eye on the prize, that being a awesomely huge awesome reef tank!! :mrgreen:

banditpowdercoat
05-14-2010, 05:32 AM
Quick update. Passed the remedial inspections some time ago and have been drywalling.

In the end I did jackhammer the floor for the sink drain. Unlike the poo pipe it was a miserable experience, and I don't really want to get into it too much other than to say "it sucked."



You mean it drains LOL

Snappy
05-14-2010, 06:18 AM
Tony this build is moving along so fast I can't keep up! :razz:
Looking good!!

lastlight
05-14-2010, 06:38 AM
That looks killer dude. I love the adjacent viewing panels in wall look man. Some nice moulding around that and it's pimpin' time!

As for the ledge...the more they hit their heads the less they touch the glass. Just sayin'!

outacontrol
05-14-2010, 12:17 PM
looks good.
I think you should have put the blue or green drywall around the tank, you the kind that goes in bathrooms to deal with the humidity, and or water.

Dyspnea
05-14-2010, 12:59 PM
Looks amazing, really coming along.

mseepman
05-14-2010, 03:41 PM
Looking really good. I think drywall done right will look good and give you the option to change it easily in the future if you want to.

Lance
05-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Looks great Tony! It's gonna be fabulous when done.

fishoholic
05-14-2010, 04:07 PM
Yay! Looks really good so far Tony :biggrin:

muck
05-14-2010, 04:13 PM
Yay Tony!!!
Progress... :mrgreen:

andestang
05-14-2010, 04:39 PM
Wow Tony, looking awesome ! I have to agree that with all the extra none tank related stuff you had to do for drains, electrical and such, I haven't read to many builds that had to have all that kinda stuff done. I'm not talking about the framing & drywalling, but it sure makes it hard to see the final prize. Now looking at the newest pics I hope you do see that it is starting to shape up nicely. Great job !

Delphinus
05-14-2010, 05:33 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone - it certainly is interesting seeing the tank skinned now after so long being bare framing. Seeing it start to look like a real tank is encouraging.

The drywall has been a major milestone. I don't want water in the tank when I'm sanding or painting and I couldn't sand or paint because the permits said "not until pass inspection" and I couldn't get the inspection because the sink wasn't code or this or that and I couldn't fix the plumbing or do the electrical before the framing was done, and I couldn't finish the framing because the builders did something weird that I had to first fix, and so on, and so on, and so on. The progression of steps has been .. I guess I'll call it "an interesting learning experience." Throw a 2 year old and a 4 year old into the mix and yeah the end result has been a gong show. It's not my first reno project but I guess it is the first of this magnitude and it's been a real eye opener. Man people who have the energy to do projects AND run tanks AND have kids AND do it all well, sure have my hat off to them in admiration right now!!

I can't wait to finish this so I can just LOOK at the tank and only have to worry about "oh I need to do a water change and top up my dosing and clean the back glass there" and so on as opposed to all that and "oh yeah, and finish building the tank too!" :)

looks good.
I think you should have put the blue or green drywall around the tank, you the kind that goes in bathrooms to deal with the humidity, and or water.

The inside of the tank canopy and the ceiling right above are in fact plywood. I've always heard that the blue/green drywall is more just humidity-resistent rather than "wet proof" - ie., for really wet applications they say concrete board is even better. So I opted instead for plywood in the high exposure areas which I painted with an oil based high gloss white. So hopefully should be no worries if it gets splashed on. The rest of the room is regular drywall, I basically ended up just ordering a huge shipment for the whole basement and it was easier to just get it all the same. The room has 3 HRV vents so humidity should be kept in check over the long term. That's the plan anyhow, we'll see how it works out!

fishoholic
08-17-2010, 01:13 PM
So Tony I heard you got some new and improved plumbing parts, I think it's about time you get this up and running. At least get her wet! :razz:

lastlight
08-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Too much fiddle faddlin' down there and not enough picture-takin' me thinks.

Delphinus
08-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Not much to show yet. System is totally flacid but I'm fiddle-faddling with the delivery shaft in an effort to get it erect and serviceable. I'm really having a lot of trouble getting the placement quite right though, and have been thinking of switching my focus onto the rear end instead for starters (ie., the overflow, I don't know what else I could be referring to here). You wouldn't beleive the girth of plumbing parts when you're working with 2".

christyf5
08-17-2010, 05:41 PM
Not much to show yet. System is totally flacid but I'm fiddle-faddling with the delivery shaft in an effort to get it erect and serviceable. I'm really having a lot of trouble getting the placement quite right though, and have been thinking of switching my focus onto the rear end instead for starters (ie., the overflow, I don't know what else I could be referring to here). You wouldn't beleive the girth of plumbing parts when you're working with 2".

Bwahahah this cracked me up :lol:

michika
08-17-2010, 06:09 PM
Same! I laughed, and then snickered, then laughed again.

fishoholic
08-17-2010, 06:59 PM
Me too, Tony you're too funny!

Chaloupa
08-17-2010, 09:06 PM
Not much to show yet. System is totally flacid but I'm fiddle-faddling with the delivery shaft in an effort to get it erect and serviceable. I'm really having a lot of trouble getting the placement quite right though, and have been thinking of switching my focus onto the rear end instead for starters (ie., the overflow, I don't know what else I could be referring to here). You wouldn't beleive the girth of plumbing parts when you're working with 2".

Bahahaha...that made me choke on my lunch!!! Thanks Tony for your splendid way with words! Great for a chuckle!

Lance
08-17-2010, 09:52 PM
Hey Tony, you trying to give Doug a run for his money?

lastlight
08-17-2010, 10:21 PM
What if all you felt was arousal? Is there a number a person could call?

Lance
08-17-2010, 10:52 PM
What if all you felt was arousal? Is there a number a person could call?


A marriage councilor if your wife peeks in on your posts! :lol:

Skimmerking
08-18-2010, 12:50 AM
I knew it its getting silly again girth all men are created equal remember:lol: Lance.....

reefcanada
08-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Looking good Tony.

fishoholic
08-18-2010, 04:35 AM
Hey Tony, you trying to give Doug a run for his money?

:lol: Seems like it, hummmm.......I wonder who's thread will end up more x-rated :lol:

Lance
08-18-2010, 04:51 AM
girth all men are created equal remember:lol: .....



........said the midget to the Jamaican woman........

fishytime
08-19-2010, 12:01 AM
You wouldn't beleive the girth of plumbing parts when you're working with 2".

aw your just trying to impress the Girlys arent you Tony:wink:

Hey Tony, you trying to give Doug a run for his money?

:lol: Seems like it, hummmm.......I wonder who's thread will end up more x-rated :lol:

well according to all o ya-ll, I am the king of perversion, so Tony has a ways to go before his thread get like mine.....or Lances.....or Bretts:razz:

lastlight
08-19-2010, 12:02 AM
Tony has a ways to go before his thread get like mine.....or Lances.....or Bretts:razz:

Made my day there doug! Although I was mentioned LAST :cry:

Delphinus
09-10-2010, 07:16 AM
So, this update has been a long time in coming. I'd like to blame the weather and doing summery things outside but looking outside right now I guess that can't be the only reason. :lol: Boo cold weather.

This update itself is also a bit late because I uploaded pictures to facebook first, then meant to upload them to a Shaw photoshare I use so I could update this thread but the Shaw photoshare won't let me upload pictures. I put in a support ticket 2 days ago and haven't heard back since. I think they've forgotten or don't really care. Anyhow, Picasa to the rescue for now.

So where to begin the actual update? For the most part, progress has been steady, but slower than I would have liked. I am learning that I chronically underestimate how much effort a task will be. The drywall is up, the ceiling is up, all the mudding and painting has been done and the room trim is mostly done.

I understand now why paint stores seldom recommend high gloss paint. It shows EVERYTHING. I had those walls so smoooth I could not see ANY blemish after it was primed. And then after the finish coat I could see every seam, every screw hole, every scratch that was filled in. Crazy. It's took a while and several attempts to get it to not look too terrible on close inspection.

I also continue to hate metal stud framing for walls. Hate with a passion. I thought that perhaps once the drywall was up, it would stiffen the walls up. I was wrong. On the finished wall I can press in and get at least 1/2" flex in the middle. Man am I not happy about that. For the rest of the basement I will have to either reframe it with wood or at least use 2x3's and double up the framing before drywalling.

The other reason you want to preblock with wood is that if you want to attach things like floorboard with nails, there isn't a nail in the world that can grab that metal framing. So you have glue the floorboard on instead. Putting everything I could think of against the floorboards as the glue set still wasn't enough, they bowed out some in places so I had to use paintable caulking to fill the gaps.

It's a learning experience. :lol: I just wish I could stop learning and start applying more. Oh well. On to the pictures!

Here we are at the doorway looking in. As you can see the drywall is up, tiles around the sink area, and the ceiling dropdown is finally finished up. It's actually painted plywood up there instead of drywall to work with the tight tolerances.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9BQe8vfI/AAAAAAAABsU/fnIMOuIAQAQ/IMG_1436.JPG

A closeup of the sink work area. There is a 2x8 under the drywall to hold the RO/DI up. It's one solid mounting. Too bad that AS was I mounting it, it slipped and landed on the TDS meter. The canisters help up luckily but the TDS meter is toast. I haven't replaced it yet but did at least buy the replacement (you can see it in the bag still on the little shelf thing). :redface: There might have been a few swear words uttered as this played out.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9ElQapiI/AAAAAAAABtE/CTKL52KACVg/IMG_1449.JPG

I had to cut the drain pipe out and redo the whole dang thing to allow the sink to sit flush against the drywall. Again, more swear words.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9Bq8MYTI/AAAAAAAABsY/PJHRltVj91Y/s512/IMG_1437.JPG


A look towards the tank from the back of the room. Where I'm standing will eventually house the 110g cube which at this point I'm thinking of keeping for a little while as I'm considering not moving my eel and butterflies into the 280g. The butterflies are too destructive; and the eel is not appreciating the company of his tank mates these days. I can only feed him at night when the rest are sleeping or in the morning before I go to work and the lights haven't turned on yet.

Anyhow you can see the light rails are back up and the plumbing is started.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9BzwfQ6I/AAAAAAAABsc/jqLjlQz7Y-k/IMG_1438.JPG

Around the tank is painted plywood, the rest of the room is drywall. Where the two meet I covered the seam with a corner moulding seen here.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9CIbbvdI/AAAAAAAABsg/FJvPGLHPZ2M/IMG_1439.JPG

As you can see I still am storing some stuff in the tanks. Ignore the bags in the sump for the time being. They hold stuff which will come into play at a later date. In the meantime here is the plumbing return started. 2" flex PVC to the intake of the Dart, 1.5" flex after that. The hugeness of the 2" tru-union ball valve made it hard for me to visualize how I wanted the plumbing to be but I think I'm happy with this arrangement. I would have preferred not to put a 90 in the intake line but otherwise it would have jutted into the room by a large margin. My old 75g had its pump like this and it ran for like 7 years so I'm hoping it will be OK.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9CWECNqI/AAAAAAAABsk/R5Srxc_0VEA/IMG_1440.JPG


This is the manifold that feeds various outlets. Up goes to the 280g, to the right will go to the frag tank (which will be the 40g semi-cube - 24x24x12 - that right now houses my carpets and clowns. They'll move into the big tank and that will free up that tank for this). The frag tank feed will be a 1" line which right now isn't installed - it will just glue into the valve when I'm closer to working on that part.

The other two outlets are for a 1/4" line (just for the heck of it - but it might be useful for drip acclimations) and another outlet that's just capped for now - it's there in case I ever want to run another line to somewhere down the road.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9CuXmukI/AAAAAAAABso/nYqvhQ5BFFY/IMG_1441.JPG

A look at the delivery manifold loop. 4 3/4" locline outlets, two at the front and two at the rear and two 3/4" outlets (capped off for now) in case I ever want more down the road.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9C5nHqZI/AAAAAAAABss/H_wlOkO8f2Y/IMG_1442.JPG

The Herbie overflow. A wet test will tell me if I need to shorten the pipes.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9DGn51wI/AAAAAAAABsw/B_jUhYEb4dI/s512/IMG_1443.JPG

Tight tolerance for the 2" gate valve on the overflow but you can get to it easily enough and adjust it.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9Dlw9dUI/AAAAAAAABs4/mHoKxV2glp0/IMG_1446.JPG

The emergency overflow pipe seen here.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9D2h1ObI/AAAAAAAABs8/HA1FiH9atT4/IMG_1447.JPG

Another look at the overflows draining into the sump.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9ELsG25I/AAAAAAAABtA/mXk6Yg9aEuo/s512/IMG_1448.JPG

A shout out of thanks to reefcanada for the sock holders. I'm not convinced I'll be happy with the 4" socks but man the glass sock holders are just so damned sexy.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9DaM1W7I/AAAAAAAABs0/0cKxzKItT8A/IMG_1445.JPG

A look under the skirt, er, stand. Here is the span at the back of the tank. There is a 2x8 and a 2x6 glued-n-screwed together supported at the ends with 3 vertical 2x4's each. I am hoping this will hold up and not bow in. I couldn't detect any bowing when I had the tank filled last, so hopefully it's OK.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TIm9FGdHG_I/AAAAAAAABtM/z2EL1GJQhNI/s512/IMG_1451.JPG

Delphinus
09-10-2010, 07:45 AM
So, next on the radar is the plumbing for the skimmer. I have Canadian Man's old DIY beckett skimmer that has been waiting to be put back to use for a few years now.

Plumbing is such an interesting exercise. I both love and loathe it at times. It's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle but you don't know what the end picture will look like.

This was my first thought on how I'd run the line. I'm using 1.5" line that will step down to 3/4" for the GenX/Mak4 pump intake.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUXa-3j7I/AAAAAAAABtg/LAP5Dm-pCfw/IMG_1452.JPG

... But I just didn't like it. It wasn't speaking to me. So I ended up picking up a few different pieces and am right now thinking about something like this instead:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUXlOzV-I/AAAAAAAABtk/80u00RlgDDM/IMG_1453.JPG

I've had the red handled valve in my junk drawer for years and was excited to use it again. But the problem is the threaded ends means threaded-to-slip adapters are needed and it just adds to the overall length needed. I want flex PVC involved to suck up pump vibration and also compensate for any alignment issues but flex PVC is defeated if you don't have a long enough run.

So, a switch to a half-union valve from Western Pump (man I love that store, more on this later) and hopefully a pump feed arrangement I can live with.


Here's a look at the skimmer itself.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUY0AO05I/AAAAAAAABtw/kHIASUWgqEQ/s512/IMG_1456.JPG

Jonathan didn't have a gate valve and I've been wanting to add one to this skimmer forever. So finally here I am and I've done it! Haha! WOOHOO!

.. but .. in the "I don't know WHAT I was thinking" category, I ordered a threaded gate valve instead of a slip. I was probably thinking "this way I can reuse it later!" ... but the problem is all those threaded to slip adapters just keep adding length and more length to the pipe (holy that sounds terrible) but I want a lower profile on that sort of thing.

Again, Western Pump to the rescue with stuff like this:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUYED4C5I/AAAAAAAABto/xjqB18iW4cY/IMG_1454.JPG

.. and this:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUaXXzyWI/AAAAAAAABuE/y_YnhQPiDrI/s512/IMG_1462.JPG

The close nipple will sit inside the bulkhead and that is a challenge in itself. I used a copious amount of "heavy bodied" PVC cement and am hoping that it will seal up. If it does, the valve can then just thread on and off the bulkhead as needed.

A second option would have been to add a threaded to slip adapter but again it just makes the pipework huge and a bother to work around.

The male threaded elbow just goes into the other side of the valve and drains down into the sump.


On the topic of draining down .. another one from the "I don't know what I was thinking." Remember that most of this stuff happens late at night - don't judge me! :lol: Instead of measuring the sump height, I got it into my head that to find out how high the skimmer needs to sit off the ground (ie., how tall the skimmer stand needs to be made at), that I should hold the skimmer up and measure the height it took to get the effluent pipe to clear the sump wall.

Can you see where this is going? Well, I'll give you a hint: doing it that way was not smart.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUaKAMT4I/AAAAAAAABuA/M9kMdjz97Lw/IMG_1460.JPG

Ouch. There was a time I might have reacted with swear words but at this point I'm more just "ugh, now I need some weldon. This will also undoubted push back the wet test."

So a trip to Industrial Paints and Plastics today was in order because I was out of Weld-On 16 (I use a LOT of that stuff fixing stuff and toys that the boys break. Man if the butterflies are destructive to a reef, they don't hold a candle to a 5 year old and a 2 year old, and the damage they will do to a household.) :lol: Or a dad who works on his hobbies at midnight and after.

But, it's given me the thought that sometimes things like this are an opportunity. One thing about this skimmer that I worry about is, well, let me just show you. This:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUZUx0NmI/AAAAAAAABuM/CfWO-NLAbqI/IMG_1457.JPG

My goodness that is a lot of screws. It will take forever to take this apart to clean and put back together and I'll need a screwdriver to boot. I am tempted to see about replacing the flanges to something that uses maybe 3/8" acrylic and no more than say 8 thumbscrews. And keyholed screw holes so it can just twist off.

Only problem with that is I don't want to make them. At one point Barr Aquatics was selling ready made flanges but unfortunately his reseller, Austin Aquatics, has gone out of business. I put in an email to Brent a couple days ago but no reply. I'm not sure if he's still doing acrylic fabrication for the hobby.

So I might be looking around at some point to see if someone can make me some. I might even talk to Industrial Paints and Plastics about that.

It would be a good opportunity to install a second flange at the bottom of the reaction chamber so that the skimmer can be taken apart for cleaning.

On the topic of cleaning .. I always wondered where people get muriatic acid to clean out things like skimmers. Today I was at Western Pump and thought .. hey I wonder if people use that stuff to clean out pools. Lo and behold - they do! $16 later I have a gallon of 35% muriatic acid. Dirty skimmers beware!

The top of the skimmer cup as well could probably stand to be reflanged with something that includes keyholed openings for the bolts:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUZj6KteI/AAAAAAAABt4/5qploSwp2lg/IMG_1458.JPG

.. as well as the injector housing:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ujFD9DxsrV8/TInUZ9FRP0I/AAAAAAAABt8/5BCVX5cIL08/IMG_1459.JPG

It's just that, in my experience, when something becomes a drag to do, it gets pushed off. And it's a slippery slope between "I'll clean that out tomorrow" and "why does my tank look like crap?" ...

.. but it's a balance point too. I don't want to re-engineer the entire skimmer. At some point it might just be further ahead to say "to heck with it" and buy a new skimmer. The problem with that of course is funds or more specifically a lack thereof. So the initial plan will be to just fix the break for now, and worry about "making it better" later on.

MitchM
09-10-2010, 10:29 AM
Looking good Tony!

I know what you mean about late night mistakes.
(except for me that is after about 8!:lol:)

Mitch

lastlight
09-10-2010, 03:53 PM
Update looks awesome to me Tony. I think you were the one to say to me 'it photographs well' and we can't see and imperfections in yoor walls so you're actually allowed to pass it all off as perfect. Disclaimers for those that visit in person. Those are the rules man!

See what you mean about that brace and your pump. Just roll with it as is and 'see what happens' I'm sure you're fine.

The skimmer looks like a nightmare to take care of and I can only say good luck. You'll have to weigh the cost of the custom fabrication against something that's good value for the money like SWC etc. Or maybe it's worth it for now to just suffer the screws and do the weld-on thing?

Good points about threaded fittings. I went that route as well this time and yeah why bother worrying about re-use. It meants buying a ton more threaded parts to get to a slip fitting anyways. All slip again for me the next time around (years away!).

Looks like a really nice fishroom though I'm jealous as frag.

Delphinus
09-10-2010, 04:49 PM
Thanks Brett and Mitch! It's finally nice to see a room with drywall. I want to hurry up and move the fish over so I can finish up the rest of the basement. Living in the construction zone for this long is starting to get a little old.

And yeah, Brett, I think you're right about the skimmer. Might just be further ahead to just fix it for now and get it going and just save up for a replacement sooner rather than later. It is a good skimmer, the tank it was on was a 230 with a 75g add-on and it seemed to handle the load well. So it should at least be able to get me started and I can worry about the rest later on.

Lance
09-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Looking good Tony! Nice, neat, organized build.
I always try to go with slip fittings if possible. Like Brett said: "You nearly always end up with slip anyway."

Pescador
09-10-2010, 06:00 PM
Nice work Tony, looks great. Save some room for froggies and fruit flies.:biggrin:
What are you planning for water mixing and top up?