Idea for Polling fish mortality rates

[Chin_Lee]

I wanted to run this idea by moderators and Canreefers in general on a forum dedicated to polling Canreefers on the mortality rates of different reef fish they have ever kept or tried keeping. The poll will not classify the various types of death - it will basically let people know if these fishes will survive long term or not.
Example 1 - if you killed all your fish in 2 months because you had a newbie tank syndrome and you decided to stock 20 fishes into your 20 gallon tank within 2 months, you would still choose 2 months as the longest you had kept these 20 fishes alive.
Example 2 - if you sold your fish after 10 months, do not include your experience into the poll because it didn't die on you and let the person who bought your fish enter their experience into the poll taking into account that they bought it from another person who've had it for 10 months.

I think is a good way for everybody to get a general idea of what types of fish are available in our LFS that we should or shouldn't buy. A poll would have to be created for each species of fish and the options would be something like:

0-1 months
2-3 months
4-5 months
6-7 months
8-9 months
10-12 months
1 - 1.5 years
1.5 - 2 years
2 years +

I know its not going to be the most accurate way to determine their mortality rates but it will give us a general overall sense on how these fishes will adapt to aquarium life.

Your thoughts?

[michika]

I think this is a fantastic idea! I would definitely be interested in it.

[mark]

If the tank was well covered but for a little gap above the euro-bracing and the stupid wrasse decided to go carpet surfing, did I really kill it?

I'll join in though.

[Chin_Lee]

If the tank was well covered but for a little gap above the euro-bracing and the stupid wrasse decided to go carpet surfing, did I really kill it?

I'll join in though.

regardless it will let everyone know how long they last before they carpet surf....... cuz thats what happened with mine as well

[Delphinus]

Just trying to understand how it would work. You're thinking basically an open-ended (ie. no closing date) poll for each kind of fish we can think of. So for example, one poll might be for "Yellow Tang", another for "Lawnmower blenny" and so on.

We'd end up with a LOT of categories, but, the potential for gathering long-term data as time goes on would be pretty good.

Something like that?

I like the idea as well. :)

[Pan]

Just trying to understand how it would work. You're thinking basically an open-ended (ie. no closing date) poll for each kind of fish we can think of. So for example, one poll might be for "Yellow Tang", another for "Lawnmower blenny" and so on.

We'd end up with a LOT of categories, but, the potential for gathering long-term data as time goes on would be pretty good.

Something like that?

I like the idea as well. :)

Yeah but a new to the hobby vs an old hand, a reef vs a fish only. Lots of live rock vs not so much, regular water changes etc... to many variables for it to be that accurate.

[fortheloveofcrabs]

What about my jawfish that's been MIA for 2 months...? I figure "lost at sea"

I'm in - good idea.

[Zylumn]

Great idea. Tank size and years running could be simple classifications.
Kevin

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Great idea Chin.

[Chin_Lee]

Yeah but a new to the hobby vs an old hand, a reef vs a fish only. Lots of live rock vs not so much, regular water changes etc... to many variables for it to be that accurate.

i agree but what it can provide is for people to realize how long these fishes actually survive in our tanks. There is nothing in this world that can ever calculate all the variables and the poll is really not for accuracy.
The way I see its, the general idea behind it is lets say I want to buy a mandarin goby and I see that only a handful of people out of 100 have managed to keep it alive for longer than 1 year, I might have second thoughts about buying one.
On the other hand, I want to buy a yellow tang and 40 of 100 people have managed to keep them alive for 3-5 years, thats a pretty good indication that this fish is a good keeper.

Yes the list of fish could get substantial but once all the "common" ones are in, its the only ones most people will be interested in. I would not expect to see species like green sea turtle, hammerhead shark, or pineapple fish.

In some way, its my way to contribute to the conservation of some of the harder to keep fish.

[Delphinus]

No whale sharks ?? :eek:

[Pan]

i agree but what it can provide is for people to realize how long these fishes actually survive in our tanks. There is nothing in this world that can ever calculate all the variables and the poll is really not for accuracy.
The way I see its, the general idea behind it is lets say I want to buy a mandarin goby and I see that only a handful of people out of 100 have managed to keep it alive for longer than 1 year, I might have second thoughts about buying one.
On the other hand, I want to buy a yellow tang and 40 of 100 people have managed to keep them alive for 3-5 years, thats a pretty good indication that this fish is a good keeper.

Yes the list of fish could get substantial but once all the "common" ones are in, its the only ones most people will be interested in. I would not expect to see species like green sea turtle, hammerhead shark, or pineapple fish.

In some way, its my way to contribute to the conservation of some of the harder to keep fish.
Okay that makes sense, I think it would be a good idea., "generally" speaking (despite what william blake has to say) its a good idea. People could use it as a quick reference guide, although other such things exist elsewhere. If it looks like not too many people have had succees with a particular fish or coral they may want to read up on it more (should do that anyway IMO) and maybe decide to wait until there skills have increased. I think canreef should have fish/coral basic guid anyways. It be fun to build such a thing.

[skylord]

I think this is an exceptional idea. It could be you have one list with all Tangs and you could tick a radio box behind the Yellow Tang at 3 yrs and a Purple Tang at 2 yrs and a Powder Blue at 3-6 months and only have one submission for all tangs.

Scott

[niloc16]

great idea chin. of course there can be tons of variables but the idea is awesome. i would totally be in for that.

[Pan]

No whale sharks ?? :eek:
Didn't an aquarium in the States just lose their second one?

[Delphinus]

Yes - the Georgia Aquarium - a few months ago. But I wasn't trying to inject a sober sad note into this thread, in fact the opposite - was just intended as a light hearted comment.

[Chaloupa]

Fantastic idea! I would have loved to read something like this when I was starting out......I'm interested!

[Phanman]

Great idea Chin, i would love to know how long ppl have kept a species of fish.

[digital-audiophile]

Great idea!

Maybe hard to do as a forum poll, but maybe more in an excel data sheet?

[ponokareefer]

I love the idea! Hopefully something can be put together. Maybe a separate forum that all the different types of fish could be an idea.

[Chin_Lee]

well seems like the interest is there. I will liase with a moderator on how this will be set up.
Can a moderator be assigned to this little project and PM me? Thanks

[Delphinus]

Well I already posted interest but if you want a DIFFERENT moderator ... well then, I'm insulted, and I'm taking my ball and going home! :p

[michika]

Just a thought, but could it be possible that the poll be coded into drop down boxes for fish choices, time, other parameters, and an option to fill in some extra information.

[christyf5]

Just a thought, but could it be possible that the poll be coded into drop down boxes for fish choices, time, other parameters, and an option to fill in some extra information.

I don't think vbulletin has that capacity but its something to look into :biggrin:

[Chin_Lee]

I think a simple post explaning why your fish died would suffice. If 30 different people had a 6 line wrasse go carpet surfing, well thats good info to have. On the other hand, if 2 people had a mandarin goby alive for 2 years plus, they could provide some good info on how they have managed to do so.

[Chin_Lee]

Well I already posted interest but if you want a DIFFERENT moderator ... well then, I'm insulted, and I'm taking my ball and going home! :p

well tony if it has to be you, I guess it will do. :lol: I'll send you a PM tonight

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I think it's an excellent idea, Chin. I also like Catherine's idea of including simple way to categorize other variables. Whether or not that's possible, I still like it!

[StirCrazy]

how are we going to account for the "unknowen" time the fish spent in holding tanks, and in the stores. I have bought fish that have been in the store 2 days and I have bought fish that were in the store for 1 year..


Steve

[Chin_Lee]

how are we going to account for the "unknowen" time the fish spent in holding tanks, and in the stores. I have bought fish that have been in the store 2 days and I have bought fish that were in the store for 1 year..


Steve
i would just go with what I know. If i know its been in the store for 1 year, i would include that. If I don't, then don't include it. KISS method usually works :)

[danny zubot]

Great idea Chin, I would definately contribute my experiences. I was just going over some of the literature I have on fish, and well, it's out dated. Most books will rate each fish's difficulty in care, and list it's compatability with other fish and inverts. As well as food types and various other husbandry notes. However, none of the books I've ever read indicates where they acquired this data from. I always get the impression that it's all the author's opinion, so how would my skill stack up against the author of the book?

Having an index of our own would allow me to come up with my own opinion on weather I should buy a fish, based on how I feel my skills are compared to other reefers that I already know. Far more valuable to me than any book I've read.

As far as the physical statistics of this kind of poll are concerned, have fun!:razz: At work I deal with stats a bit, and by the time I'm finished developing the perfect chart, which accurately indicates the multiple variables I'm looking to portray, I usually have a head ache, and my neck is numb.:biggrin: I'll be interested to see how this developes.

[fiorano]

i think its an aweosme idea :) id really like to know how people kept fish alive and for how long

[Redrover]

Great idea...does this include freshwater ?:onfire:

[Chin_Lee]

Great idea...does this include freshwater ?:onfire:


sorry but we are limiting this to saltwater fish at this time......... I feel that FW fish is a whole different ball game with very strong variable such as wild caught or bred locally or bred elsewhere........ Most saltwater is wild caught so thats not a variable that needs to be taken into consideration.

[Redrover]

That Sucks!!!!

[kwirky]

I could maybe whip something up in PHP and host it on my wikireef.net

I'll play around and let u guys know how it goes. I'm thinking that users could create fish species and users could add their average lifespan of fish species that have been created in the database.

I'm designing the program and I'll let y'all know whether it's something simple to implement...

update: I have a bit of the program working now. uses a database. you can check it out here: http://www.kwirky88.com/lifeline/
update on the update: the php's almost functional now. I have a form to add fish species to the database, I'm working on the form to submit your own death/s, and then I will be implementing an image thumbnailer possibly. It's coming along.

[littlesilvermax]

I will vote.:mrgreen:

[Psyire]

I added my info to the polls