What does everyone think of T5's for reefs

[marcingo]

Hey everyone.

I had 2 150 watt DE MH on my 21 inch tall tank. One of the ballasts broke. Anyway I have recently started reading about HO T5 systems. Basically what I am looking at is a 8x 39 watt setup for my 4 foot tank. Anyone have any experience with HO T5. Also just a note the T5 I am planning on getting has individual reflectors for each bulb. Would I be better off get getting a new ballast for my existing MH or would the T5 do a similar or even better job? Its tough to get a concrete answer from the internet since most information is just biased on personal preference. Also with the T5 what would be the best bulb setup?- I would definitely like 1 or 2 actinics for color.

As a sidenote I am keeping things like torch, zoos, palys, mush, and would like to keep some lps as well.

Thanks.

[findingnemo1]

I am currently running 12 39 watt t5's in individual reflectors and really like them. My anemones have definetly gotten bigger and have not moved since i put them on the tank. You could easlit land a plan in my living room. Soft corals do great and i am just getting into sps and they have all held there colour. They are much more cooler temperature wise as compared to metal halides. I have mine about 6-7 inches of the tank in an eclosed hood and the temp stays pretty stable a 80. We are going to halides now not because of the way the work but because the wife likes the "shimmer":twised:

But i have on there 4 super whites,4 aqua blue specials and 4 blue plus. And that gives off the right amount of blue as i like the blue look but not blueberry look. And with that i have not had to add the actinics.

My opinion cheap to do it yourself,cheap on the power bill and heat in the tank and they provide great growth.

I have attached a link of a tank that is only under t5's
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/totm/index.php

Craig

[kwirky]

my tank's 48x24x24 and I keep lps and softies and such, and my 8 bulb 4' light fixture is more than adequate. I'm planning for some sps this summer because the upper regions of the tank are a no-fly zone for the softies, it's so bright. I'm quite satisfied with T5 bulbs. I have the sunlight supply Tek light fixture.

I'd recommend making sure you have two separate ballasts, because I had to change my lighting schedule to 12 hours actinic and 9 hours bright.

Also, we're gonna be getting the Korallen Zucht bulbs in canada very soon. Been reading bout them for a bit, and it seems some people in europe are going to T5 and never going back because of these bulbs. The pictures are outright amazing :)

[marcingo]

Sounds great. What I wanted to hear. Do you think brand name of the fixture makes a big difference? I have found these for 249 for a 8x39watt in edmonton but Im guessing its not a well known brand name. Also would anyone know where I might be able to compare prices with brand name stuff.

Thanks

http://www.aquagiant.com/product_info.php/cPath/38_78_129/products_id/971

[kwirky]

I don't recommend that one. It doesn't have individual parabolic reflectors. For T5 to be worth it, each bulb needs it's own reflector, and they're usually about 2.5" wide each.

If you're looking for a budget fixture, you could go with a sunlight supply new wave fixture. They're new and aimed to be a little lower budget. They only have a single ballast though, and the 48" 8 bulb units are hard to find.

if you're looking for prices, check j&l http://www.jlaquatics.com, and call Gold's aquariums. Even better, go in and talk to Albert personally. Gold's usually has great prices, only you have to wait sometimes if they have to order it. Great service there. Highly recommended. *thumbs up*

[mr_alberta]

For T5's you can talk to Ryan over at ReefWerkz. He hooked my up with my TekLight fixture on my nano.

[Bartman]

I have found these for 249 for a 8x39watt in edmonton

If you have a 4' tank I would go with the 54W bulbs instead of the shorter 39W units.

[marcingo]

Thanks for the advice. I went to take a look at that unit and was very dissapointed. The only one he had running barely lit up a fresh water tank. When I talked to him on the phone he told me each bulb had an individual reflector but when I got there it didnt- maybe thats why the light was so dim on it.

[kwirky]

they might be normally driven too (NO), and not high output (HO). I've got a coralife aqualight NO T5 light for my FW tank. It's two NO bulbs sharing a reflector packed together, and it's not much light.

When you finally see a proper HO driven T5 light with parabolic reflectors, you'll be amazed at it's brightness.

sorry bout recommending gold's. thought you were in calgary. J&L's a good place to order stuff from. I've gotten quite a bit from there.

[marcingo]

no problem. It might have been normal driven but I also asked if it was HO T5 and he assured me it was. Would the NO t5 be thin bulbs as well? because these were pretty thin.

[Rumika]

I hope you don't mind me asking a question but this is also interesting to me. I have a 90g FW that I will be looking at changing over to SW so I am looking for a light fixture for it as well.
Would you know what kind of depth the HO T5's are good for? Also Sean, would you suggest some name brands to look for. I believe you pay for what you get and you may pay more for it in the beginning but in the long run it is worth it.

Thanx

[kaboom]

Don't waste your money on T5"s. Get the real thing, metal halides. I don't know why people think it's cheaper to run t5's, the wattage of 8 x 54w is 440w, that's not much less than 2x250w MH, and you get the penetration that is essential for deep tanks and sps corals. The only time I would consider t5's is if I want going to keep LPS and soft corals only. Most people eventually migrate to harder to keep corals, and MH upgrade becomes the end result. Why not just start with MH and safe yourself a bunch of money and headache. I am speaking from personal experience and I've read too many of these "upgrading thread help". Hope this helps.

[Doug]

Don't waste your money on T5"s. Get the real thing, metal halides. I don't know why people think it's cheaper to run t5's, the wattage of 8 x 54w is 440w, that's not much less than 2x250w MH, and you get the penetration that is essential for deep tanks and sps corals. The only time I would consider t5's is if I want going to keep LPS and soft corals only. Most people eventually migrate to harder to keep corals, and MH upgrade becomes the end result. Why not just start with MH and safe yourself a bunch of money and headache. I am speaking from personal experience and I've read too many of these "upgrading thread help". Hope this helps.

Thats a pretty bold statement. Are you saying my T-5 bulbs wont grow sps in my 16in. tall 30g? Not to mention the oodles of T-5 lit tanks I have seen elsewhere.

Now I agree with your view on costs & power and I have been a metal halide user since the 80,s but there are many ways of keeping corals. :smile:

[kaboom]

There are a lot of ways to grow corals and there are alot of ways to waste money. I've done them both. IME, T5 does not penetrate very well, therefore good for shallow tanks and corals that doesn't require intensity. To the naked eye it appears a littly hazy, like a slightly overcast day:sad: . MH on the other hand is a sunny day, and don't we all love sunny days:biggrin:.

The reason why I stated that is because most people start out with lighting, or other equipments, that are gearing for the current interest, and perhaps lack the future interest for keeping SPS(everyone's goal :wink: ). Investing in something for the long run is always wise and saves you money in the long run. IMO, T5 cannot bring out the vibrant colors of the corals that MH can, and that is truely the main objective, isn't it.

[Reefer Rob]

I recently switch from T5s to 400W MH, and I would say that with regards to light penetration the opposite is true. With metal halides light is much stronger at the top but decreases toward the bottom. T5s are a much more even light with a less noticeable difference top to bottom. The only thing I didn't like about T5s is the light is very flat, with no shadowing, which gives the corals an "unnatural" look. SPS corals do very well under T5 lighting, and there is way less of a heat issue.

[marcingo]

I agree with you reefer bob. I have recently been reading a lot about T5 lighting and there is a guy name Sanjay out there who tests all different types of lighting. Anyway he found that MH have stronger initial par but since they have to be raised so high above a tank due to heat issues they lose a lot of that initial par most of the time before they even hit the water. Another thing is they are point intensive so yeah you might get more penetration than T5s but only right under the light while T5s give you an even distribution. Another thing is that from what I have read in Europe most people are moving from Metal Hallides to HO T5's and its not like their tanks are uglier than ours. I think there is a big problem in saying that MH is the best lighting out there because really its not.

But this is just my opinion which I came to from reading alot on the issue. The problem with finding a concrete answer on which lighting is the best is that there isnt one. All the T5 lovers say T5 is the best while all the MH lovers say MH is the best. Just like BMW drivers think their cars are better than Mercedes.

I am looking forward to finding some objective stuff on the issue, more tests like this Sanjay gentlemen is performing to come to a good conclusion.

Anyway thats my two cents ;)

[albert_dao]

http://zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9125

Zeo users switching to T5's for better color.

GG

[kwirky]

T5's vs. metal halides is allways such a heated debate :)

Honestly, I don't have any experience with MH personally, and to let you know i've only had a saltwater tank for about 7 months. Some of the other people on here have a LOT more experience than I do; I only talk loud ;)

I decided on T5's because I'm usually not afraid to be an early adopter to a technology and it just sounded so cool at the time. Thankfully I don't have any regrets. Also where my tank's located, there's only 18" of clearance above the tank to the ceiling, so the extremely slim T5 fixture was quite appealing at the time.

If you're wondering whether it's HO or NO, maybe see if you can look at the manual and see the wattage requirements for the bulbs. That would instantly tell you what kind of ballasts are in there.

But, if you're crunching numbers and trying to get the lowest cost unit possible while still having something of good build quality that won't die unexpectedly, go with a PFO retrofit MH setup. Two PFO 250W mh ballasts with two XM 10k bulbs and two 24" pfo reflectors work out to about $550 all together at J&L online (go to the MH retrofit section). If you were to buy that no-name T5 unit, with your bulbs it'd run you about $500 anyways. I'd go with the PFO MH setup rather than the no name T5 setup. You'd have to build a hood or a pendant, but what's a little woodwork at a buddy's garage?

I'm always leary of no-name anything if nobody's bought it yet and given feedback whether it's half decent or not.

[Reefer Rob]

I'm thinking a combination of MH for texture, and T5s for homogeneous light, with 50% of the wattage each split between the two might be ideal. Has anyone seen this kind of hybrid system?

[kwirky]

I'm thinking a combination of MH for texture, and T5s for homogeneous light, with 50% of the wattage each split between the two might be ideal. Has anyone seen this kind of hybrid system?

seen quite a few exactly like that on the zeovit forums, usually people upgrading their existing MH setups by supplementing with T5 actinic instead of PC. Seem some people using Iwasaki bulbs with T5 bulbs and ending up with a 10k colour. T5's are WAY more efficient than PC lighting.

Would be pretty expensive though, and I have a feeling marcingo has a budget to keep within ;) Two MH lights plus 4 T5 bulbs with ballasts and fixtures to boot would run about $500-900 without the bulbs, I think.

I find the retrofit options available for T5's quite lacking ATM, and wish there was more available, as that would make such a lighting setup dooable without being outrageously priced.

Anyone know how long T5 bulbs last when overdriven with an icecap 660 ballast? Heard it's 6 months...

[Sebae again]

Elos the Aquarium Company has some fixtures with M.H. and 4 t5 bulbs.Some nice pics in their website.

[Kronk]

I have researched the crap out of this subject as well and there doesnt seem to be a clear winner... to answer your original question though i would say just get a new ballast instead of investing a ton on a totally new system.

You could get T5HO's in combination with MH like reefer rob has suggested just keep the single working MH you have and get a 4 bulb retro kit (http://aquakit.ca/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=38) this is the best price i could find with free shipping in canada just be sure to select the right size.

Cheers,
Ken

[marcingo]

Thanks very much... I cant wait until I have 1k to spend on some amazing light system lol. But for now I bought 4VHO with icecap ballast for the side of my tank that is missing a light and im gonna continue running my MH. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions everyone.

[kwirky]

I cant wait until I have 1k to spend on some amazing light system lol.

By the time you feel a real need to upgrade, there'll probably be something even better any ways. I feel with any kind of fast moving technology, the key to buying is procrastination. Leave it to the last minute :mrgreen:

[briansmyth]

I have a four foot PFO Solaris 20K LED system on my 90 gallon tank. If you're into leaving a smaller footprint on the planet, you might want to think about these.

I had DIY 400 watt metal halide lighting with a 10K and a 14K bulb. The LED lights are saving me a chunk each month on my utilities plus I'm adding way less top off water to the tank since much less evaporation ... fewer trips to get RO/DI water now. I was able to take off a fan on my sum, so energy savings and water conservation there, too. I imagine my air conditioning will run less in the summer now and it is way less hot in the basement the rest of the time. No chiller required.

Corals seem to be doing well under the LED lighting - I will be checking SPS growth closely beginning in April, but results will be mainly anecdotal.

I think metal halides have a nicer shimmer effect, but as long as you have ripples in the water, you will see most of that shimmer effect with LEDs.

The LED light bulbs may need to be replaced at about 10 years, so there appears to be a cost saving there. Programming the lights, having lunar lights and options such as cloud cover have been of interest to me.

The big downside of LEDs are the price, but if you think about the total cost of ownership, there are benefits to LEDs.

[marcingo]

true i really was interested in the LED lights but I couldnt justify buying a set of lights for almost 4000 dollars.

[Doug]

There are a lot of ways to grow corals and there are alot of ways to waste money. I've done them both. IME, T5 does not penetrate very well, therefore good for shallow tanks and corals that doesn't require intensity. To the naked eye it appears a littly hazy, like a slightly overcast day:sad: . MH on the other hand is a sunny day, and don't we all love sunny days:biggrin:.

The reason why I stated that is because most people start out with lighting, or other equipments, that are gearing for the current interest, and perhaps lack the future interest for keeping SPS(everyone's goal :wink: ). Investing in something for the long run is always wise and saves you money in the long run. IMO, T5 cannot bring out the vibrant colors of the corals that MH can, and that is truely the main objective, isn't it.

Just to add more thoughts. I dont follow the colour thing, as I have seen some pretty brilliant coloured sps T-5 tanks. And I think they are as bright or brighter than some of the higher "K" halide bulbs we use.

I feel they are correct lighting for many set-ups but not all. I do agree with you on the purchase of good equipment from the start. Now by that, I would not use the multiple T-5 set up on a larger tank. However if oneswishes to run a whack of T-5,s over a large tank, it should provide enough light but I would say, halides are much more simple for that and provide as good, if not better light, in that situation.

My friend chucked his T-5,s from his 180 after a year of use and went back to 400w halides. {I can say he would not use them again but still loves VHO lighting}. I sold my 4ft.s and just used my 175w halides. I now say that was a mistake, as the T-5,s were better lighting and brighter than the 14K bulbs I was running.

As I had access to several 3ft. T-5 fixtures for my new 30g long, I sold the halides and went with them for this particular situation.

[Ephraim]

I'm still new to this game, but i can tell you that T5's have been working well for me. I dont have any basis of carparison to MH as i have never used them. I think one of the most important things with coral color and t5s is your bulb selection, that make all the difference from pastel to the bright neons we all desire. I went with the hagen glo fixtures and was pretty impressed with the brightness. All of my LPS and softies are thriving 12"-24" from the lights. My zoos a spreading like crazy, every day i am seeing new buds. I decided to try a birdnest frag a couple weeks ago (5" from top) and it's put on some thickness and new branches are sprouting. I would like to have some of that shimmer effect, but the heat from MH in my living room simply would not be comfortable during the summer.

[trilinearmipmap]

I am going on 3 years with my T5-lit 120 gallon tank 48" x 24" x 24". It is an 8 x 54 Watt Tek Light.

It is a mixed softie/LPS/SPS tank.

The light is too bright for some softies eg. mushrooms will not grow.

The sps have done fine however I only have the easier sps for now Monti caps Monti digitata and horn coral. One Monti cap frag I got about two years ago was 1" size now it is about 10" across with multiple sworls and I have taken quite a few frags off it. I don't know how this would compare to growth under halides.

I am getting a calcium reactor in the next month or so and then I will try some harder sps.

[RonPeter]

That's good to hear as I am setting up a 90 gallon withe a 6 light Aquatinics SolarFlare fixture.

[ron101]

Has anyone seen any quantitative head to head comparisons? I hear a lot of claims about efficiency and brightness without any supporting numbers.

[marcingo]

thats the biggest problem. But if you search in google T5 vs MH you should find a guy named sanjay who is doing it. Im not sure if he has posted his results yet but he might have.

[mr_alberta]

That's odd, my softies are loving the new 36" 4 bulb tek light system I have on my 6" deep tank!

I am going on 3 years with my T5-lit 120 gallon tank 48" x 24" x 24". It is an 8 x 54 Watt Tek Light.

It is a mixed softie/LPS/SPS tank.

The light is too bright for some softies eg. mushrooms will not grow.

The sps have done fine however I only have the easier sps for now Monti caps Monti digitata and horn coral. One Monti cap frag I got about two years ago was 1" size now it is about 10" across with multiple sworls and I have taken quite a few frags off it. I don't know how this would compare to growth under halides.

I am getting a calcium reactor in the next month or so and then I will try some harder sps.

[kwirky]

That's odd, my softies are loving the new 36" 4 bulb tek light system I have on my 6" deep tank!

I've got a chunk of toadstool bout 4" across that's about 9" from the water surface that's been doing ok. Now mind you there's aanother chunk from the same colony which fell under my rockwork and has been GROWING in the dark shadowy spot between a rock and the glass. So I don't think it's too picky for light anyways lol

advanced aquarist this month did some testing to find the lux requirements of various coral, and found that some soft corals require just as much light as SPS.