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12-19-2013, 05:52 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,272
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TM balling webinar synopsis
Many thanks to those that joined our webinar.
One of the highly important topics that came up was the question of imbalances and as the slide show was clear to show, once explained it makes so much sense. I will try my best to put some of that info here.
If anyone highlights an inaccuracy to what I have written please let me know and I will happily address that in the thread openly.
Hearing about the relationship between the ions of Calcium chloride and sodium Bi-carbonate was fascinating especially how the coral polyp takes in the calcium ion from the calcium chloride element and the carbonate ion from the sodium element and what is left behind is your imbalance.
Left behind is sodium from the Bi-carbonate and chloride from the calcium, these two together of course make sodium chloride, and here lies the imbalance in 3 part, all of a sudden you have extra sodium chloride with no other elements attached to it floating around in your tank, and by doing a water change you are only removing the percentage of that water change of the imbalance.
So if you are dosing 2 or 3 part light systems and rely on water changes alone to address the imbalance you are only removing for example on a 10% water change, 10% of that imbalance.
Now - by adding into the mix Part C the remaining sodium chloride has something to balance it which includes the 70 trace elements
Now of course there is an argument that this system too raises your sodium chloride level, and yes you are right, BUT and here is the defining factor, it is doing it in a balanced format in the same way you would be doing by adding more sea salt to your system, because it is balanced there is no ionic risks, and even the most minimal water change would cater for any salinity rise, however due to being in balance and such a very low level this is not an issue, where as an unbalanced system with just sodium chloride floating about is.
What is an issue however are 3 part or light systems that allow for free amounts of sodium chloride in your system with nothing to balance it allowing for a complete imbalance that can not be addressed wholly by water changes as you only remove the % of water change and as such only remove that % of imbalance.
There is only one way to keep a system in balance when dosing calcium and sodium Bi-carbonate and that is to add in proportion NACL free salt. (Part C)
To make the point clearer, the very first original Sea Salt mix from Tropic marin that still to this day forms the basis of all their salts is a 100% mixture of A B and C of the Tropic Marin Balling system together!
So there is no argument chemistry in itself proves it, if you dose a system with nothing to balance the excess NACL you create an imbalance, and this is where part C comes in which is made up of everythign you find in a sea salt mix including all trace elements without adding additional NACL, hence the term for part C as NACL-FREE sea salt. But lets be clear Part C is not just magnesium as in every other other 3 part system, it is the whole bells and whistles found in sea salt as stated before WITHOUT any NACL component.
This is why Tropic marin balling from the inventor Hans-werner balling is so popular to those that care about doing this 100% right.
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01-07-2014, 07:02 PM
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Islander
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that really doesnt make much sense .
If my system demands
70ml CA
84 ml alk
(Which is the same as before TM balling method when you take into account the concentration adjustment.)
but only 10 ml a day of MG (aka part C)
And this is how it sits for say a few months ..
Then as per the seminar , i am not balanced . The whole point wast to add equal parts C to B , thus balancing the chloride ions etc
Infact RON99 has a very good point . If the consumption in my tank of all trace elements ( all 70 trace in part C) is not equal to the amount of part C dosed then potentially over time those elements will become over concentrated .
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01-07-2014, 07:04 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital
1) Yes providing you start with a balanced system i.e all parameters in line with their guidelines which is written on the box. You may find you need to slightly vary away from this depending on your own tanks needs. Its a guideline
2) yes correct all 3 parts A B and C make up NSW minus the sodium Chloride.
3) refer to point #1 you need to balance your system first
4) This also comes down to point #1
You balance your system first by manual dosing once balanced you can work out your daily consumption.
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If the salt we choose to use is not "balanced" then how do we balance the system while continuing weekly or biweekly water changes
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01-07-2014, 07:11 PM
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Member
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as long as your ca ALK and Mg is within range the rest will fall into place.
if still stuck or unsure give Lou a call he has said he will answer any call
413-367-0101
You are not balancing trace elements thats where I think the confusion lies
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01-07-2014, 07:19 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital
Give tropic marin a call ask to speak to Lou he is expecting your call, he will explain everything to you person to person directly.
You should have joined the seminar.
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I'll see if I have time to do that. Can you PM me a phone number? Thanks
edit: never mind, missed the post above...
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01-07-2014, 07:21 PM
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Islander
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ok may call .
one last thing then.
lets just say that i need to dose no Mg . or 1 ml a day lol
basically i have no need for part C ?
so am i not basically just doing 2-part dosing again ?
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01-07-2014, 07:29 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeferfulton
ok may call .
one last thing then.
lets just say that i need to dose no Mg . or 1 ml a day lol
basically i have no need for part C ?
so am i not basically just doing 2-part dosing again ?
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Yap its gonna be just an expensive 2-part. 
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01-07-2014, 08:04 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhasan
Yap its gonna be just an expensive 2-part. 
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Ok lets not let this thread fall apart with pointless negatives, I kept this open knowing eventually the thread would implode with people trying to disprove what has been already proven.
Part C Mg is designed in a way that you will never not dose it, I am dosing 80ml a day! and my Mg is 1320. It is designed to be proportional. So NO you will not end up with an expensive 2 part as Part C is designed always be required in proportion
You need to also remember the trace elements are in very small quantities. With the Ca and Alk consumption in the tank, these trace elements are depleted through precipitation and biological processes.
Here again is Lous number he is open to calls all the time in office hours eastern time, please call him and use this service.
413-367-0101
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01-07-2014, 08:13 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital
Ok lets not let this thread fall apart with pointless negatives, I kept this open knowing eventually the thread would implode with people trying to disprove what has been already proven.
Part C Mg is designed in a way that you will never not dose it, I am dosing 80ml a day! and my Mg is 1320. It is designed to be proportional. So NO you will not end up with an expensive 2 part as Part C is designed always be required in proportion
You need to also remember the trace elements are in very small quantities. With the Ca and Alk consumption in the tank, these trace elements are depleted through precipitation and biological processes.
Here again is Lous number he is open to calls all the time in office hours eastern time, please call him and use this service.
413-367-0101
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He was asking whether it would just be a 2 part if he doesn't have to dose part C. We have had this discussion before Michael 
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01-07-2014, 08:16 PM
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Member
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Yes it would but then thats an unbalanced system, as said so many times in this thread part C is the most important part. So part C in the system is designed so it will be required so the system stays in balance.
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01-07-2014, 08:17 PM
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital
Yes it would but then thats an unbalanced system, as said so many times in this thread part C is the most important part. So part C in the system is designed so it will be required so the system stays in balance.
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Exactly 
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