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Old 12-19-2013, 05:52 PM  
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Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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Default TM balling webinar synopsis

Many thanks to those that joined our webinar.

One of the highly important topics that came up was the question of imbalances and as the slide show was clear to show, once explained it makes so much sense. I will try my best to put some of that info here.

If anyone highlights an inaccuracy to what I have written please let me know and I will happily address that in the thread openly.

Hearing about the relationship between the ions of Calcium chloride and sodium Bi-carbonate was fascinating especially how the coral polyp takes in the calcium ion from the calcium chloride element and the carbonate ion from the sodium element and what is left behind is your imbalance.

Left behind is sodium from the Bi-carbonate and chloride from the calcium, these two together of course make sodium chloride, and here lies the imbalance in 3 part, all of a sudden you have extra sodium chloride with no other elements attached to it floating around in your tank, and by doing a water change you are only removing the percentage of that water change of the imbalance.

So if you are dosing 2 or 3 part light systems and rely on water changes alone to address the imbalance you are only removing for example on a 10% water change, 10% of that imbalance.

Now - by adding into the mix Part C the remaining sodium chloride has something to balance it which includes the 70 trace elements

Now of course there is an argument that this system too raises your sodium chloride level, and yes you are right, BUT and here is the defining factor, it is doing it in a balanced format in the same way you would be doing by adding more sea salt to your system, because it is balanced there is no ionic risks, and even the most minimal water change would cater for any salinity rise, however due to being in balance and such a very low level this is not an issue, where as an unbalanced system with just sodium chloride floating about is.

What is an issue however are 3 part or light systems that allow for free amounts of sodium chloride in your system with nothing to balance it allowing for a complete imbalance that can not be addressed wholly by water changes as you only remove the % of water change and as such only remove that % of imbalance.

There is only one way to keep a system in balance when dosing calcium and sodium Bi-carbonate and that is to add in proportion NACL free salt. (Part C)

To make the point clearer, the very first original Sea Salt mix from Tropic marin that still to this day forms the basis of all their salts is a 100% mixture of A B and C of the Tropic Marin Balling system together!

So there is no argument chemistry in itself proves it, if you dose a system with nothing to balance the excess NACL you create an imbalance, and this is where part C comes in which is made up of everythign you find in a sea salt mix including all trace elements without adding additional NACL, hence the term for part C as NACL-FREE sea salt. But lets be clear Part C is not just magnesium as in every other other 3 part system, it is the whole bells and whistles found in sea salt as stated before WITHOUT any NACL component.

This is why Tropic marin balling from the inventor Hans-werner balling is so popular to those that care about doing this 100% right.

 


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Old 12-19-2013, 10:33 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:36 PM
mrhasan mrhasan is offline
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Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital View Post
You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.
I would have loved to but pulling a 12hrs every day at the university is not an easy work.

Yah that's what I was thinking: it should come with a specific mixing ratio which cannot be changed for the theory to work. And I am guessing the ratio also maintains 2dkh to 10ppm. Right?
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:50 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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Here are the dosing instructions and recommended concentrations



When trying to find issue with the system and I am sure many here will try to, remember the person that invented this is still regarded as the leading author on this subject who has world wide respect and acclaim in the industry, he would have in the last nearly 30 years been fielded every possible scenario.

I do not pertain to know all the real critical details but I can give you the phone number of the person that does However what we will lay out here in this thread is the important facts that the average hobbyist will understand. if they still do not then please join the next webinar.

If anyone has doubts I will put you in direct contact.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:53 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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The "additional" trace elements are those above and beyond what is found in NSW which are seen as beneficial elements to your corals also. They are an addition.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:05 PM
The Codfather The Codfather is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital View Post
You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.
That's what I understood as well Michael, you have to dose C the same rate as B.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:08 PM
mrhasan mrhasan is offline
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Quick Q: you have to dose 125ml of A and 125ml of B at the same time or multiple of that right depending on the depletion rate? Or can the amount of ml of each solution be changed? I can understand you have to dose the same amount of B and C (x ml) but what about A and B?
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:25 PM
jorjef jorjef is offline
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I haven't been following all that closely so excuse me if this question has been answered. Is this system available? Have any been distributed to retailers and what is the approximate start up cost ?
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:26 PM
Ron99 Ron99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital View Post
For anyone that fancies the gauntlet of making their own I thought I would share this

Of course you dont need the NCL as that's the part you are trying to balance

So are you suggesting part C contains all of the above?!? And if so then that would be exceedingly difficult to do unless mixing it up in extremely large batches as some of those elements really are "trace" elements. Additionally, many are not necessary for the health of our reef inhabitants. So it's not like that chart is a compilation of what is in part c; or any synthetic salt for that matter.

I understand completely what you are saying about balanced dosing and imbalances that may occur depending on how elements are being consumed and then dosed. The point I am trying to make is that, while the TM products may very well be good and an easy solution , I think it's fair to say that the same thing could be accomplished with other dosing regimens and other trace element solutions that contain the elements that are consumed and used by corals etc.

I just think it's a bit of marketing speak to suggest that only Tropic Marin provides a balanced dosing solution and by doing it other ways you are creating or feeding an imbalance. That may be true if someone is only dosing two part or two part plus Mg. But I suspect most dose other trace element complexes as well from numerous other brands and we don't see reef tanks using other products crashing left right and center or going wildly out of balance all over the place.

Sure, the TM products may very well be a good and easy solution but other options exist to do essentially the same thing and they don't involve mixing up your own trace element complexes one element at a time etc.

Just to reiterate, I'm not knocking the TM solution as I'm sure it works as advertised. Just trying to have a balanced view as to what it's accomplishing and how it might compare to other options.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:34 PM
Ron99 Ron99 is offline
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And just to add one thing, some of the trace elements listed in your chart would also be extremely expensive and or controlled materials so they are unlikely to be found in the part c complex.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:42 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorjef View Post
I haven't been following all that closely so excuse me if this question has been answered. Is this system available? Have any been distributed to retailers and what is the approximate start up cost ?
Hiya

For your area Bayside has it and another big shipment just left, I think Pats pets may have it also but I know he was runnign low and off sick right now so have not been able to touch base with him.

Wais aquarium has it, so does aquaurium illusions, Concepts has it coming in and a few other stores in the region.
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