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Old 12-19-2013, 05:52 PM  
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Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Default TM balling webinar synopsis

Many thanks to those that joined our webinar.

One of the highly important topics that came up was the question of imbalances and as the slide show was clear to show, once explained it makes so much sense. I will try my best to put some of that info here.

If anyone highlights an inaccuracy to what I have written please let me know and I will happily address that in the thread openly.

Hearing about the relationship between the ions of Calcium chloride and sodium Bi-carbonate was fascinating especially how the coral polyp takes in the calcium ion from the calcium chloride element and the carbonate ion from the sodium element and what is left behind is your imbalance.

Left behind is sodium from the Bi-carbonate and chloride from the calcium, these two together of course make sodium chloride, and here lies the imbalance in 3 part, all of a sudden you have extra sodium chloride with no other elements attached to it floating around in your tank, and by doing a water change you are only removing the percentage of that water change of the imbalance.

So if you are dosing 2 or 3 part light systems and rely on water changes alone to address the imbalance you are only removing for example on a 10% water change, 10% of that imbalance.

Now - by adding into the mix Part C the remaining sodium chloride has something to balance it which includes the 70 trace elements

Now of course there is an argument that this system too raises your sodium chloride level, and yes you are right, BUT and here is the defining factor, it is doing it in a balanced format in the same way you would be doing by adding more sea salt to your system, because it is balanced there is no ionic risks, and even the most minimal water change would cater for any salinity rise, however due to being in balance and such a very low level this is not an issue, where as an unbalanced system with just sodium chloride floating about is.

What is an issue however are 3 part or light systems that allow for free amounts of sodium chloride in your system with nothing to balance it allowing for a complete imbalance that can not be addressed wholly by water changes as you only remove the % of water change and as such only remove that % of imbalance.

There is only one way to keep a system in balance when dosing calcium and sodium Bi-carbonate and that is to add in proportion NACL free salt. (Part C)

To make the point clearer, the very first original Sea Salt mix from Tropic marin that still to this day forms the basis of all their salts is a 100% mixture of A B and C of the Tropic Marin Balling system together!

So there is no argument chemistry in itself proves it, if you dose a system with nothing to balance the excess NACL you create an imbalance, and this is where part C comes in which is made up of everythign you find in a sea salt mix including all trace elements without adding additional NACL, hence the term for part C as NACL-FREE sea salt. But lets be clear Part C is not just magnesium as in every other other 3 part system, it is the whole bells and whistles found in sea salt as stated before WITHOUT any NACL component.

This is why Tropic marin balling from the inventor Hans-werner balling is so popular to those that care about doing this 100% right.

 


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Old 01-18-2014, 01:47 PM
Reef Pilot Reef Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital View Post
over 10L of make up of A and B and about 41L of part C

kit costs $59.00 for A,B,C

Can be purchase separate.

Remember also Blue Tangs tank is total water volume 540 gallon!
Yeah, I've been following this, too, and would like a better idea of what my costs would be. If I went this route, what would be my total start up, and then ongoing costs per year for a 230g system? You can exclude hardware.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:07 PM
BlueTang<3 BlueTang<3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Reef Pilot View Post
Yeah, I've been following this, too, and would like a better idea of what my costs would be. If I went this route, what would be my total start up, and then ongoing costs per year for a 230g system? You can exclude hardware.


I have a few clams large Sps colonies large Lps colonies and about 80 frags,

I figure me 5l container will last 10 days 2 fills will be 20 days so about 50 a month maybe for additives ?

I was going through a 20 pound bottle of co2 in just over a month before cost was 28 to fill plus the hassle of two trips to the place that did it. I kept my reactor in case this doesn't pan out but we will see.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:23 PM
Reef Pilot Reef Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTang<3 View Post
I have a few clams large Sps colonies large Lps colonies and about 80 frags,

I figure me 5l container will last 10 days 2 fills will be 20 days so about 50 a month maybe for additives ?

I was going through a 20 pound bottle of co2 in just over a month before cost was 28 to fill plus the hassle of two trips to the place that did it. I kept my reactor in case this doesn't pan out but we will see.
Thanks. But wow, that is a lot of C02 in a month... But you do have a large system.

I dose alk and Ca, and just recently had to start doing Mg as well. My dosing costs keep rising as my SPS grows, but for now, still a lot less than your new TM method, even when extrapolated down to my size system. But I acknowledge there may be other benefits, too.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:28 PM
BlueTang<3 BlueTang<3 is offline
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I totally agree there are cheaper other options/ routes to go I did more less for simplicity. If I am away working/ fishing any one can drag out the scale and add 400 g part add swirl and walk away. Don't have to worry about baking making soda or anything. I a, new to the dosing thing but may end up going to a simple recipe.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:41 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef Pilot View Post
Yeah, I've been following this, too, and would like a better idea of what my costs would be. If I went this route, what would be my total start up, and then ongoing costs per year for a 230g system? You can exclude hardware.
There is no definitive answer to this because the draw on the elements are based on your coral loading more than anything else in the average size tank with larger tanks such as blue tangs the huge water volume also comes into play but once at saturation or rather peak values the dosing amount will stabilize.

Blue tangs tank is a very unique in terms of size so it will be disproportionately higher than average.

No its probably not the cheapest system but its the best, and within reason thats what matters.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:54 AM
BlueTang<3 BlueTang<3 is offline
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How's everyone else liking this, been a month and half tank levels are stable and stuff is growing. Happier then the calcium reactor.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:11 AM
mrhasan mrhasan is offline
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I haven't seen any noticeable change other than Mg being stable (relative to 2 part). Colors and growth are consistent, can't say whether 3 part made it better or not since I changed my lighting too and things went to crazy growth mode.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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The main thing you will see if stability, coral colour change is subjective to many variants, but in time as your system become less out of balance you will see increased growth.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:25 PM
Scythanith Scythanith is offline
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Hey Michael,

so just clarify for me if you would I tested the tank and have 415 Ca, 8.8 Alk, 1155 Mg. So my understanding is I should bring my Alk down to 7-8 and my MG up to 1300 before starting to dose the 3-Part system in unison. Now do I continue to manually dose the Part A to keep my Calcium up, and dose the Part C a little heavier (but no more than 125ml according to the box) to get my Mg up? That means I'd not dose Part B since I want my Alk to come down? I made a 2x concentration 1L solution of Part C that I am dosing with to get the Mg up.

Thank you for the clarification. I am all in to the ™ system now. Salt, 3-Part… GHL doser haahaa.

Anyone watch Breaking Bad

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Old 03-01-2014, 10:30 PM
Aqua-Digital Aqua-Digital is offline
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worry about one element at a time, bring the ALK down to below 8 and then test the Ca, your Ca will rise slightly due to the relationship of ALK to Ca, (too much alk = lower or suppressed Ca and visa versa.)

Once you have those two balanced then the MG will rise to a degree and then you can balance this.
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