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  #31  
Old 12-13-2011, 05:46 PM
BigAl07 BigAl07 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
I'm also curious if the beam passing through the glass might do some residual damage there as well, perhaps creating a weak spot?

Cool idea though in theory! Come on, it's freakin' LASERS!
It has zero effect on glass. None what so ever. It "works" from heat and this heat is "absorbed" by darker materials. The darker the material the faster and more intense the heat. The "Beam" passes through the glass as if it's not there at all. There are lasers that can cut glass but they are a highly specialized system and I suspect some other "Trade Secrets" are involved in that endeavor. That's why many of your production glass cutting systems use water-jet rather than laser to cut their projects.

Yes this is a VERY risky process and truly no one else should be home let alone in the same room or in an adjacent room where the beam could be reflected to.

The 2 people I've talked with indicate that something makes the fish "not interested" in the end-point (sound of the boiling flesh maybe?) but none the less precaution needs to be taken to help ensure you don't have a stray "Swim By" event. Lucky for me my tank in question only has 3 fish so putting them in "Time Out" wont be a huge matter.
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  #32  
Old 12-13-2011, 06:53 PM
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so what is the name of this laser thing and where can it be purchased?
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  #33  
Old 12-13-2011, 07:09 PM
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I've spoken with (2) people and each of them took a different route. You can buy one ready made or you can save a few $$ and buy a kit.

http://www.dragonlasers.com/catalog/...m-p-16456.html

Be sure and get the corresponding protective goggles, that beam hurts!

and here is a shopping list from the reefer who decided to make his own from a kit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO View Post
OK, with the safety caveats in place, here's what it took to build my laser.

  1. I joined http://laserpointerforums.com to learn more about lasers and to get some discounts.
  2. I purchased the Deluxe 445nm Aura C6 Host Kit with the copper heatsink for $60 +$3 shipping.
  3. I purchased the M140 445nm blue diode with an upgraded copper module for $64 (shipping included). The guy from whom I bought the host kit also has a similar diode and module for a similar price, but I didn't find that out until after I had ordered this one.
  4. I purchased Safety Glasses, a pair of RCR123A Rechargable Batteries and a Battery Charger from Survival Laser for a total of $67 including shipping and a discount for LPF members.


All told, I spent just under $200. I also have an Otterbox that I had purchased a month or two ago that I'm using as a case.

CJ
And here is his "CAUTIONARY Statement re: Laser Use"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO View Post
Before I get into the parts you need, I want to share some aquarium safety tips that are being developed:

Best practices for the use of lasers in aquaria (first draft)

Secure the Area
The lase area should be closed off from any transient traffic to prevent someone from unknowingly entering the area without appropriate eye protection. Any doors should be closed and locked. Any windows should be covered or blinds closed to prevent the escape of reflected laser energy.

Only the laser operator and those required in the process should be allowed in the area. All pets should be removed from the area and prevented for reentering while the laser is in use.

Protective Gear
A high power laser beam striking your eye, or the eye of an observer can result in instant and permanent blindness. Even viewing the beam endpoint without eye protection will cause eye damage. The user and everyone within the viewing or potential reflection areas must be equipped with appropriate eye protection specifically designed for the wavelength laser being used. Sunglasses do not protect against laser light. Laser eye protection is designed to protect against unintentional reflections and endpoint viewing. It is not designed to protect from a laser beam being directed toward the eye. Never look directly at a laser beam or allow it to directly strike your eye. Long sleeves and Nitrile gloves offer an additional layer of protection for the operator.

Identify and Eliminate Reflection Hazards
Using high power lasers in glass and acrylic tanks is virtually guaranteed to create potentially hazardous beam reflections. These beam reflections can cause serious injury. This danger is amplified by the fact that use of the appropriate safety goggles will prevent you from seeing most beam reflections. Positioning the laser at right angles (directly perpendicular) to the tank glass or acrylic should be avoided as unseen laser energy will be reflected directly toward the user. Burns to exposed tissue can occur within seconds.To prevent injury, a low power targeting laser (such as a laser pointer) in a different spectrum that can be seen when using the safety goggles should be utilized to identify any reflections before firing the high power laser.

Identify Backstops
The laser beam will penetrate clean glass or acrylic with virtually no heat being transmitted to the tank material. The beam will quickly (almost instantly) pierce though the targeted item and impact anything behind it. Extreme caution must be exercised to prevent injury to any livestock located behind the targeted item. Painted or dark glass or acrylic surfaces may become heated during lasing.

Reduce Water Flow
Pumps should be turned off during lasering. This limits the cooling effect of water passing over the target thereby increasing the effectiveness of the laser and reducing the firing duration required to achieve the intended results. It also simplifies targeting as the intended pest is motionless.

Protecting Tank Inhabitants
Failure to protect tank inhabitants from repeated viewing the beam endpoint will likely result in blindness to your livestock. Ideally, all livestock should be removed and held in quarantine in a tank protected (covered) from stray laser light until laser treatment is completed. Alternative methods(s) to protect livestock from encountering the beam or end-point include,
  • Physical Barriers - Use of physical barriers to prevent inhabitants from accessing an area being lased and to prevent any laser energy (beam pass-through or reflections) from entering any areas containing livestock.
  • Endpoint Shield - If physically blocking off the area being lased is impractical due to tank features, an end-point shield should be used to prevent inhabitants from viewing the end-beam. In this case, extreme diligence is required to extinguish the beam should any inhabitants approach. This is likely, due to curiosity over the “sizzling” sound created by the operating laser. The endpoint shield can be created by simply as a short section of opaque acrylic (such as painted or frosted.) PVC should not be used as it emits toxins when heated.


Potential Impact to Water Quality
Use of a lasers to eradicate certain marine pests may result in the release of undetermined levels of toxins into the water column. It is believed that the intense heat may break down some of the compounds (such as Palytoxins.) Depending on the type and number of pests being destroyed and the size of the tank, the user should be prepared to use fresh carbon and or execute a water change to reduce any toxins produced.

Securing the Laser When Not in Use
When not in use the laser should be treated and stored as a firearm. When not is use it should be secured in a lockable case with batteries removed. The locked case should be stored out of the reach of children.

CJ
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  #34  
Old 12-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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I can understand the frustration that aiptasia cause (I would have broken down a system because of them if I wasn't moving anyway), but this seems awfully risky. The potential consequences to you or someone else in your home if safety precautions are ignored for even a second seem relatively high compared to what it's being used for. To quote billsreef over at reef central:

"Just to throw in some perspective from the research side of life, in a university research lab setting, just as much weight is given to safety and tracking of lasers as radioactive material".

and this is an interesting thread from the laser pointer forum. The laser that hit this guy's eye was less powerful than what most people are buying for their aquariums. His avatar picture is what his retina looks like now:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/hi...ser-69469.html

Just my two cents, but I'd rather take out and boil all my rocks before risking my, or someone in my home's vision.
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  #35  
Old 12-13-2011, 07:40 PM
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Yes this could be very dangerous but with proper safety precautions no more dangerous than many of the other things we deal with in and around our tanks.

Goggles goggles goggles! Such a simple piece of equipment could have saved this person some hassle. It's too early to know the full extent of the damage but hopefully he'll have a significant amount of improvement after today's surgery.
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:01 PM
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Good to hear about the glass. I wasn't sure but I guess that makes sense now that I think about it.

In spectacularly poor judgment I must say I am tempted to try this myself. I don't much care about majano and aiptasia or but I must admit the possibility this could work on valonia .. has me wondering.
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:03 PM
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Even tho it's hot... I doubt you'd do more than burst it Tony... and make things worse?
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
Good to hear about the glass. I wasn't sure but I guess that makes sense now that I think about it.

In spectacularly poor judgment I must say I am tempted to try this myself. I don't much care about majano and aiptasia or but I must admit the possibility this could work on valonia .. has me wondering.
I just read either yesterday or last night about someone who had tried this on valonia with great success. Honestly I worry about popping the shell before the spores inside are completely destroyed by he said that wasn't the case.

It would be interesting to try it on a "Test Tank" just in case.

ROFL
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In spectacularly poor judgment
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lastlight View Post
Even tho it's hot... I doubt you'd do more than burst it Tony... and make things worse?
With my luck ... yeah that's probably true.

Oh well it was a nice thought while it lasted! I wonder if any LFS has about 6 or 7 emeralds I could pick up. Nowhere as cool as a FREAKIN' LASER though!!!!
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Last edited by Delphinus; 12-13-2011 at 08:07 PM.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl07 View Post
...but with proper safety precautions no more dangerous than many of the other things we deal with in and around our tanks.
I don't know if I'd agree with that statement. No one has ever experienced a life altering injury from accidentally dropping a heater on their toe, and normal equipment failures typically result in nothing worse than a tank crash. I know it's hypothetically possible, but something needs to go pretty dramatically wrong for a person to get electrocuted or otherwise seriously injured by normal equipment or chemicals. All it takes for a lasing session to end in tragedy is sweaty hands and a momentary lapse in concentration. When was the last time any of us heard of someone being seriously injured by their tank equipment? Ask the same question about lasers and the answer is 'last Tuesday'.

These lasers can permanently alter your, or someone else's life if mishandled for even one half of a second. My dad had an ocular aneurism in his right eye three years ago. It's not the same thing as laser injury, but the functional result was the same. The effect it has had on his quality of life has been nothing short of devastating.

Ultimately people will probably do it, and to be honest I was tempted until I read that thread on the laser forum. More than anything I know these threads are searchable on google so I just want to make sure that any conversation regarding these things for aquarium purposes have enough posts about the dangers so others who aren't necessarily members of the boards get a complete picture of the risks when they look for info.
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