Cleaner Wrasse? - Update

reeferaddict · #1 09-23-2005, 09:16 PM

OK... here I am inserting the spoon again...

Anyone want to share their opinions on these little critters? After 3 months, and some reading, I decided to try one of these to help clear up my Powder Blue tang of its ever-present light coat of ich. (Which though always present, the fish never stopped eating, and has in every other aspect appeared to be very healthy).

WOW! I put this little guy in the tank, and rather than go hide for a day or so like most other new fish, this guy went straight to my PB and started right away! The PB laid over and seems to enjoy this .... within 3 days, he was completely ich free. I was concerened that once that parasites were gone that the little guy might starve, but he eats everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING I put in the tank... even NORI... sometimes the PB gets a little frustrated at his antics and they do a little corkscrew chase around the tank, but the little wrasse keeps coming back and the PB usually lets him pick for a while before saying enough. It's quite comical behaviour, and he picks at the Copperband and Purple Tang as well. I'm no longer worried about feeding him, and would think that barring disaster, he will be a great addition to the community. I would have picked one up ages ago if it weren't for some of the stuff I read about reef conservation etc etc.

How have any of my fellow Canreefers made out with theirs? I decided to get mine as I read from a respected source, (Tullock) that there has never in fact been any evidence to support that collecting for the aquarium trade has had any impact on the reef except in the case of the Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse which is not collected for the hobby. In other reef habitats, these fish aren't over collected and are reported to be in abundance on the reef. I can understand the conservation issue and the impact of removing commensual species from the reef, but I get that from the hobbyists, when I read the scientific opinions, they conflict.

So now that my little guy has settled in and is actually getting fat.... just wondering how the rest of you are doing with yours and if anyone has any info to confirm or deny what I have read.... there are just WAY too many conflicting reports.

Thanks.

Snappy · #2 09-23-2005, 11:53 PM

They tend not to last as long as other fish but sometimes you can get a good one. I don't hesitate to buy them on occasion and think it is worth it even if they only live a month. Their sacrifice of working hard and then to die an untimely death saves many other fish's lives in the process. The longest I had one last is 6 months but it really did a great job with the other fish and also ate all food I put in the tank including pellets and flake. Long story short I think they are a good investment.

Bob I · #3 09-24-2005, 01:09 AM

The only one I had lived exactly one year in my tank. While alive it ate everything I put into the tank as food. There was never a need for its cleaning services, as there was no problem. I have read that they are of no use for Ick control.

reeferaddict · #4 09-24-2005, 02:00 AM

Thanks guys... I've read that people find them useless for ich as well.... but my PB will disagree... he always had a light dusting on him... I've tried Qt and treating this before on previous PB's and I decided to not put this one through the stress and he's done just fine... then the cleaner wrasse just came in and cleaned him in no time...

Snappy · #5 09-24-2005, 05:25 AM

They worked for ich for me but it was a small infestation, that said I have always kept cleaner shrimp as well.

Troy F · #6 09-28-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snappy

They tend not to last as long as other fish but sometimes you can get a good one. I don't hesitate to buy them on occasion and think it is worth it even if they only live a month. Their sacrifice of working hard and then to die an untimely death saves many other fish's lives in the process. The longest I had one last is 6 months but it really did a great job with the other fish and also ate all food I put in the tank including pellets and flake. Long story short I think they are a good investment.

That may well be the most unethical statement I've encountered in almost eight years of reading the bbs and mailing lists. A healthy system will do a better job than any cleaner fish. I hope anyone reading this puts more value on the critters they bring home than that.

reeferaddict · #7 09-29-2005, 12:07 AM

Troy,

While I can appreciate your view, I also ask that you open your mind to the potential future of this hobby. According to Sprung, Delbeek, and Tullock, (the only ones I have read), there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that collection of "cleaners" for the hobby has any negative impact on the wild reef. All of these assumptions are presented by bleeding heart environmentalists that target our beloved hobby as being the most visible of the problems facing the natural reefs. As hobbyists, we share the responsibility of ensuring the proliferation of species both in the wild and in captivity. A single oil spill or a season of food fishing will decimate any reef many times more than the collection of specimens for us to study in our captive environments. The more we are able to studay and maintain these species, the better our chances are of captive propogation and self sustainment within the hobby.

As for a "healthy system" being the best treatment for disease, I tend to disagree. A healthy system will have scores of variety of organisms, including parasitic ones. Any time we add livestock to our tanks, the typical stress response is parasitic infestations of various types. My experience with quarantine systems has been abysmal at best, even though many expert aquarists swear by them. Even after successfully quarantining specimens, I have observed parasites upon transfer to the display tanks. On some specimens this is a temporary condition that goes away in time, but I have had others where it is persistent until the death of the animal. I have always kept cleaner shrimp, not only for cleaning, but because I enjoy their character and habits in the tank. Recently I have had a desire to keep a Powder Blue Tang. After acquiring my first specimen and quarantining, it died before I could get it transferred to the main tank, I suspect of starvation as it never grazed or picked at anything and I never saw it take food. My second specimen I added directly to the display tank, and he promptly developed a fine coat of ich, but would never use any of the cleaner shrimp to get cleaned. At the time I removed him he was eating heartily, swimming actively, and otherwise healthy. Upon placement in the treatment tank he stopped eating, and succumbed within 10 days. At this point I was distraught and pretty sure Powder Blues were not in my reefkeeping future. My LFS agreed to have one more brought in at a reduced price, and I decided that this would be my final stab at keeping one. I did with this one what I had done previously, put him right in the main tank, and to my chagrin he immediately developed that fine white powdery coat. Again, the cleaner shrimp had no effect on him, and as the previous one, he seemed otherwise healthy. I fed garlic diligently, hoping that it would disappear, which it didn't. Some days the coating seemed worse than others, but his behaviour was always that of a healthy fish, so I chose to leave him.

After a few months of reading everywhere I could find info on a cleaner wrasse, I decided I would try one. Almost every other fish I have added to any of my systems have had a period of 3 or 4 days of hiding before becoming comfortable. Not this little guy! He swam out of the net and made a beeline for the Powder Blue and within 2 days had him completely clean. He has been clean ever since, and the Cleaner Wrasse is actively foraging and eating any other food I put in the tank. I have every reason to believe he will be a long term tank inhabitant, but I will keep everyone posted.

My point here is that our closed ecosystems have to mimic nature as much as possible for us to have success. While we can certainly exclude predator species in our reefs, the biodiversity that we strive to maintain is only a fraction of what is available in nature. I can only think that the exclusion of species due to political reasons will only hamper our efforts. If someone can present a conclusive argument that proves a negative impact on natural reefs by the collection of these species, I will be the first one to NOT buy these species. Meanwhile, the fellow that buys a $10 cleaner wrasse to protect his $100 prized specimen just MAY be the person that discovers the real secret to maintaining and propogating these species.

Troy F · #8 09-29-2005, 01:10 AM

Cripes. I had three naps reading that ;-) .

Your justifications just don't quite do it for me. I'll have to dig those books out and have a look but can you perhaps quote where it says there's no collection impact? I know Scott Michael says that they should be left in the ocean (do to poor survivability and that their removal may have a chain effect on the health of other species.

I'm not debating that the fish has it's use just the implication that they are expendable.

Bob I · #9 09-29-2005, 01:20 AM

I did not have ONE nap reading it. IMHO it is one of the most lucid, well reasoned statements I have ever read on this board. Also free of bleeding heart sentimentality so prevalent on this board.

Troy F · #10 09-29-2005, 01:33 AM

The Hawaiian Islands are probably the only place on earth where reliable studies have been done on the impact of hobby collection. Last I heard they weren't good.

Quote:

I don't hesitate to buy them on occasion and think it is worth it even if they only live a month.

Just for the record my problem with the above statement is what caused me to post. You'll never convince me that is one of the most lucid, well reasoned statements. It's one of the worst ever.

Bleeding heart sentimentality = ethical hobbyist???