Garlic :)

[michika]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

I gotta ask....have you even tried it??? Do you know what you're talking about first hand, or do you just listen to the LFS?? And stop with the "I've been doing this since dinosaurs roamed" stuff, lots of us have been doing this as long or longer than you. Without 50+ outbreaks of ich....

Brad, today you are full of win!

[surgeonfish]

I think a lot of what we do in our everyday lives is based on habit or hearsay. Even in medicine a lot of what we do is still not based on hard science. Sure we know the chemical composition and anatomical structure of the compounds making up garlic, but do we have any "evidence based research" that garlic has a true benefit in preventing or treating disease in fish (or humans)? I think we should be asking for that evidence. Where is the randomized controlled blinded studies? Here is a good project for a zoology summer student or a thesis for a graduate degree. Unfortunately, until someone does these studies, we will never have the true answer and have to rely on rumors and our own biased experiences. However, even without this evidence I use garlic because it is inexpensive and I haven’t seen any obvious deleterious effects. I have had ich outbreaks in my tank during addition of new fish while using garlic, but not since I started to quarantine them for 4-8 weeks. Maybe we should trade in our garlic for quarantine tanks?

If anyone does find any scientific evidence of the benefits of garlic please share it with the rest of us.

Thanks,
Shane BSc, MSc, MD, FRCSC, FACS

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Salmon King

Wake up smell the coffee.

You need to watch your responses Rob. Keep to the facts at hand or don't post.

[Salmon King]

Brad how long have u been in this hobby and have you ever had a fish only tank.I have researched this longer then you have been in this hobby.Brad make a million selling your garlic to therr salmon farms.Fact I never said power outages cure ick.Please let this free discution continue without you abusing indavisual power.Fact vitamin c helps your imune system but doesnt cure colds.As of standing in a swamp masquitos are parasites

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by surgeonfish

Maybe we should trade in our garlic for quarantine tanks?

If anyone does find any scientific evidence of the benefits of garlic please share it with the rest of us.

Shane, are those in the produce section?

I actually did a study in biology re: the effects of garlic on bacterial cultures. I proved it didn't do a darn thing in any of my dishes. Certainly not along th elines of what you suggest needs to be done, but in a simple test it did nothing.

However, when I fed it to my fish during an ich outbreak, the ich went away. Maybe by chance. The next time it did the same thing, "chance" is starting to get discounted as a variable.
It's my treatment of choice now, despite what my own experiments showed.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Salmon King

Brad how long have u been in this hobby and have you ever had a fish only tank.I have researched this longer then you have been in this hobby.Brad make a million selling your garlic to therr salmon farms

Rob, I've kept SW fish for over 15 years. You need to stop getting abusive with people that disagree with your "opinion". If garlic didn't work for you, too bad. You use what you want, and let us use what WORKS for us.

Continue with the abusive posts Rob and you won't post anymore. I've had several complaints from people already this morning, so please keep it civil.

[michika]

Originally Posted by surgeonfish

If anyone does find any scientific evidence of the benefits of garlic please share it with the rest of us.

There was some research done on Allicine's effectiveness. I'll see if I can't find it again. I can't remember though if it was in relation to ich specifically though.

On another note what does FRCSC, and FACS stand for?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Salmon King

.Please let this free discution continue without you abusing indavisual power.

Rob, you've completely edited your post, so it's kinda tough to keep it going when the history of it changes.
And I'm not abusing any power Rob, I'm acting as a mod in response to complaints I've received regarding your abusive attitude to people that don't agree with you. This conversation can continue forever, as long as you keep the facts at hand and do not insult other members. OK?

[Chin_Lee]

Mr. Salmon King,
I've read two threads (well one started off as power outage killing ick) regarding garlic use. Many people have posted their personal experiences on the use of garlic which worked for them. Please just take their word for it that it did work for them. As to why garlic is not used on fish farms or what not, that is a separate issue and should be asked to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans who (i believe) oversees the fish farms' procedures.
An individual posted medicinal properties of garlic that may contribute to the success observed by different aquarists. But I don't believe anybody have observed ick cysts or parasite falling off their fish and seeing these parasites writhing on the floor of their aquarium and subsequently dying after using garlic. Most people have just observed that their previously icky fish were no longer icky after they used some sort of garlic intervention.
If a power outage can get rid of ick, then (as previously mentioned by Howdy) we would never see any ick on our fish after a 16-30 hour ride in a plastic bag without power. Your experience on getting rid of ick your angel is incredible and further details may provide an insight on how it occurred.
What other livestock did you have in your tank?
Which corals died off?
I am not suggesting anything but maybe one of the corals that died released something into the water that caused the ick to disappear which is something that you should look into further.
I have no doubt that your angels are ick free and what you experienced was something great. However I don't believe that losing power is the direct cause of it. I also have no doubt that garlic has also worked for many people as it had also worked for me in the past.

[albert_dao]

Allicine (2-propene-1-sulfinothioic acid S-2-propenyl ester)
this is a chemical in garlic that when you cut it up
an enzyme in the garlic alliinase cleaves allicine into a new product
alliin this is a powerful antimicrobial and anti fungal agent

Some reading:

http://www.health-reports.com/allicin.html

Also note that allicin, when generated from fresh Garlic, is unstable, and quickly turns into other sulphur containing compounds. Due to Allicin's instability it is difficult for garlic based products to contain and maintain an Allicin content. I'm sure we can put two and two together on this one.