Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[Leah]

Well my daughter has something. Very high temperature, sore throat, back pain. Started
her on tylenol last night and have been giving it every 4 hours. She say's she feels better this morning and has eaten soup and toast. This really sucks!

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

So I guess you built and maintained all the roads you drive on? Pay for the police force so you're not murdered or robbed daily? Pay for the military so you're not working in a concentration camp? Pay for the doctors, hospitals and ambulances for broken bones, cancer, etc.? The endless social list goes on. Talk about thinking that the world owes you a living! The money isn't always spent wisely but all those essential services are there and available to all Canadians. Extortion would imply that you are getting nothing in return but you are just taking for granted everything you have in one of the best countries in the world. Our high standard of living doesn't come free. I bitch about taxes too but people need to stop and think about what hey are getting and also think of others being helped with disabilities or handicaps who would otherwise lead very short miserable lives. I am young, healthy and working and this group pays the most so it is easy to feel ripped off, but health and age change very quickly.

there are some taxes i have no problem with. gas tax helps pay for roads, cigarette/alcohol/gambling taxes help out health care. education is from your property taxes. but often we are lead to some kind of disillusionment about how our government governs us. it has always and shall be until they change it a government by consent. you have a choice to buy gas, lotto tickets, liquor, or live a city or the country. but as far as the government is concerned income tax is one of those things you just don't have a choice over whether you consent to it or not. if the government finds out you make money lawfully, and you aren't paying your taxes, they arn't going to tell the police to stop protecting you, or doctors to stop treating you, or for you to not drive on highways. they are going to harass you with agents, arrest you and try hard as they can to lock you up for not consenting to their taxation system, another person in jail for a victimless crime. there's no denial of service. plus i would like to add the cost is around 30K per year per male and 50k per female per year to put in jail white collar or not. not to mention the court and enforcement costs of taxes. if i was jailed for not paying income tax it would be a vast net loss to the government, but they don't seem to care, and do it all the time. is it worth the intimidation and incarceration of its people just so they pay their taxes?
but its not just that its unjust, and unlawful to incarcerate someone who doesn't pay taxes. because they aren't just giving you benefits from the government for the exchange of your tax dollars, they are giving you a choice: if you work in Canada we want our cut or else you live in jail. and that's not what i think Canada should stand for. because i doubt everyone lived in a giant prison before income taxes were created during WW1. so whay should that be the case now? the banking/economic systems today is seriously unhealthy if you haven't noticed. i know in the USA today 95% of all wealth is divided among less then 1% of the people, Canada is a little bit better, but not much. our current income tax code does not reflect this great divide in prosperity, and probably never will considering the lobbying powers of the wealthy.

Money as Debt
Money as Debt II
THE CRIME OF THE CANADIAN BANKING SYSTEM
please check out the Auditor generals report of 1993.
from the section: Chapter 5—Information for Parliament—Understanding Deficits and Debt
"The cost of borrowing
5.41 The cost of borrowing is the third area that affects the annual deficit. In 1991-92, the interest on the debt was $41 billion. This cost of borrowing and its compounding effect have a significant impact on Canada's annual deficits. From Confederation up to 1991-92, the federal government accumulated a net debt of $423 billion. Of this, $37 billion represents the accumulated shortfall in meeting the cost of government programs since Confederation. The remainder, $386 billion, represents the amount the government has borrowed to service the debt created by previous annual shortfalls.

5.42 We do not take a position on whether budgets should be balanced, or accumulated debt should be reduced. We are simply illustrating the long-term effects of compounding interest charges.

5.43 The amount of debt . The total cost of borrowing is influenced by three factors: the amount of debt, its management, and the rate of interest on the portfolio of debt. Exhibit 5.3 shows that, since Confederation, Canada has consistently used debt financing to cover some of the cost of operations. By the end of World War II, the accumulated debt was at $13 billion, giving a debt-to-GDP ratio of approximately 108 percent. Most observers of government financing would agree that the high debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of World War II was caused by the need to generate substantial industrial production for the war effort without resorting to taxation to cover its full cost. This meant that immediately after the war, there was considerable room for expenditure reduction through cuts in defence spending. "





1976 Swine Flu
46 million took the shot. 4000 claimed injury.
46,000,000/4000=1 in 11500
granted it could be more or less, depending on: how many reactions were attributed to swine flu but was another condition, or how many people were injured by the shot and didn't know or said nothing ect.

[midgetwaiter]

I missed a couple days of this because my "mild" flu took a turn and I couldn't walk without smashing into things. Seriously, if you haven't had this you have no idea.

Blue Tang, sorry about your friend, hope you are feeling better.

Ron99, thanks for your participation, nice to hear from somebody that knows their stuff.

Dingbats and loonies, I've always looked on you people with the type of fondness one shows a three legged dog, it's not your fault you look silly. In this case I have to say your stupidity is putting other people at risk.

Thanks to pinhead we can see that many of the same people that are convinced the flu shot is unnecessary or is going to hurt them also believe that there is a secret program involving planes flying over our cities dumping strange chemicals into the air that modify our behavior. They also believe that the US Government carried out the world trade center attacks, these people are idiots. There is a tendency in our society to be respectful to people regardless of what strange ideas they hold. This is generally a good thing, otherwise we'd have scientologists hanging from trees. However there is a point where good intentioned debate and niceties are no longer appropriate and this point is right at the end of my nose.

Your inability to understand math puts me and my family at risk, that is not okay. 2.5 micrograms of a non toxic mercury compound isn't going to hurt anyone. The squalene additive in the GSK vaccine has been used in 22 million doses in the UK. There is no extraordinary danger in this vaccine, count to 22 million on your fingers and toes.

If someone has a rational question about how this vaccine works I'd love to hear it. Dingbats be quiet, adults are talking.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I missed a couple days of this because my "mild" flu took a turn and I couldn't walk without smashing into things. Seriously, if you haven't had this you have no idea.

sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Dingbats and loonies, I've always looked on you people with the type of fondness one shows a three legged dog, it's not your fault you look silly. In this case I have to say your stupidity is putting other people at risk.

do you remember history? who has done the most damage to humanity? governments. look at Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. Hitler was democratically elected, and his political contributions came from vast sources, even traceable to the British royal family, and the Bush family. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar
remember the Canadian government put Japanese in concentration camps during WW2. our governments stupidity and its more then willingness to cover it up is really what costs lives of families.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Your inability to understand math puts me and my family at risk, that is not okay

my ability should have no effect on you. you have a brain, use it, if you want it use it. i personally will not put anything in my body like that unless its a dire circumstance, small pox for example. but again this is choice. again anything anyone says should have no effect on you making choices for your family's health. especially when its on some internet forum or such .
like it was said by many presidents in one way or another; i am assured that the people, when properly informed, will not fail to act in the appropriate manner.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If someone has a rational question about how this vaccine works I'd love to hear it. Dingbats be quiet, adults are talking.

yeah, so childishness aside.....
what don't you like about what i said?
where are your facts that say no the product information sheet from GSK is wrong? it lists some pretty bad side effects. where are your studies your relying on to prove that what your giving your child is safe?
i'm quoting from government and manufacturing guides.
i just don't like when you make a blanket statement like everyone who thinks there might be something wrong with a vaccine is a "Dingbat" and should "be quiet"

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

many of the same people that are convinced the flu shot is unnecessary or is going to hurt them also believe that there is a secret program involving planes flying over our cities dumping strange chemicals into the air that modify our behavior. They also believe that the US Government carried out the world trade center attacks, these people are idiots.

1. why do you think that 9/11 was real? because if you believe the government, you are now part of the minority that thinks 9/11 happened exactly as the government said. i would like to know what you base your bashing of other peoples ideas for.
2. no one is talking about chem trails accept for you and pinhead so yeah....
3. why do you sound so sure of everyone's beliefs? look at the poll numbers
55 i'm taking it
64 no
24 it's a conspiracy
we will leave the others out beacuse i would say its a 50/50 chance they get it or not.
so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

[marie]

Well for me the whole point is moot because I can't get my vaccine until the middle of dec at the earliest....If this is a conspiracy to do away with the little people then its a pretty poor one

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

I don't believe any one of those is true in this case and am on the fence about getting the vaccine but what makes someone a nut job because they believe in something that is different from what you believe?

So far your the only one throwing names out there and acting childish. You don't have to have the same beliefs as anyone else and that's what makes this such a great country but have some respect dude. Your only response so far is name calling?

Do you really believe that on absolutely NO level what so ever, criminal or political conspiracies exist? Do you really think there are no organizations, government or otherwise that could on some level be trying to deceive you for their own gain?

Please don't assume that those of us who believe in conspiracies believe that planes fly over cities dumping anything or that UFO's are being covered up or that the WHO is trying to kill off most of the world. People love the extremes but they are ridiculous. Its just your way of trying to make people look silly when in fact something like a drug company releasing a virus to cash in on the meds and vaccinations, hand sanitizers, ect. is NOT that out there...I don't believe that this time but how is that not possible?

Look up the word unlikely.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.

The facts have been stated over and over, there is no point in doing so again. There comes a point where politely engaging in reasoned debate becomes self defeating because it legitimizes asinine points of view. In a case where nothing is at stake there may be no consequences but this is a matter of public health. Lending any credibility to this garbage is a huge mistake and trying to refute it reasonably does that.

If it impacts the health of my family I will attack your character, your beliefs and whatever else I get a clean shot at. Wear a cup.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

The facts have been stated over and over, there is no point in doing so again. There comes a point where politely engaging in reasoned debate becomes self defeating because it legitimizes asinine points of view. In a case where nothing is at stake there may be no consequences but this is a matter of public health. Lending any credibility to this garbage is a huge mistake and trying to refute it reasonably does that.

If it impacts the health of my family I will attack your character, your beliefs and whatever else I get a clean shot at. Wear a cup.

sigh.... again, wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.
seriously look at this thread where are these "facts" that "have been stated over and over again"?
the only real facts i see is GSK's own product info sheet....
where are these studies saying this vaccine is 100% safe?
where are the reports saying this vaccine is 100% tested?
where is the study that the vaccine is even worth while compared to other measures?