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  #11  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:50 AM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Thanks again for the input!
Post 1 of 2 today

Frogger, my algae growth is not under control, but I have seen worse. It was just algae till the last month, when I had a cyano outbreak. Other than the cyano it has not been significant enough that I can manually remove it other than that on the sand or glass. I have a few tangs and a urchin that keep the algae growth short. There should be a lot more coraline algae showing on the rock.

The basic corals are reasonably healthy, the star polyps are at about 70%, and the mushrooms and leathers seem not to care other than not substantial growth.

Here is a photo of the current condition of the tank for reference.

CanReef UpLoad.jpg
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2020, 02:33 AM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Post 2 of 2 today...

From my research to date, it appears that risk of aggressive dosing is largely two - fold.

First if the bacteria colony is grown to fast, the "bloom" can rapidly deplete the oxygen, resulting in pH and alkalinity falling and potentially crashing the tank. Let alone the harm the can be done to the fish and corals from instability in the tank parameters.

Second, if the bacteria colony is not reduced to a reasonable size by the time the nitrates and phosphates reach the desired level, the bacteria can continue on a run away and totally eliminate all the nitrates and phosphates (this is my interpretation of reading between the lines but not specifically stated) which also has a negative effect on the tank. Articles are less forward in discussing this effect, they only state that it leads to problems with tank parameters.

My tank carries some additional risk on the second item as it has had sustained high levels of nitrates for a long time, which leads to saturation of the rock and sandbed. As the bacteria consumes the nitrate in the tank, more is released from the rocks and sand. It is possible that I could build an oversized bacteria colony, and when the saturated nitrate runs out, I could end up taking my nutrient levels down to far. Or end up with problems with tank parameters, that they are somewhat elusive on.

Based on my experience last time I was carbon dosing, I still want to take a more aggressive stance, but have more understanding of the risks. So I am on course for the following plan, increase Vodka dosing by 1.2ml per week for the first 12 weeks, then reduce to 0.5 ml increases per week.

Once I see a 50% reduction in nitrates, I will reduce the dosing by 25% and then maintain consistent dosing. I can monitor to determine if the nitrates are still falling or if need be slowly increase the dosing to begin the nitrate falling if need be.

At each 1/4 point from my initial 250ppm, I will reduce the dosing by 25% to try and scale the dosing down and not over shoot on the bottom end.

There are a few things that are on my radar for consideration, the first is that my UV sterilizer may inhibit bacteria growth, I will be shutting it down for the time being. It may even be an asset to slow down the bacteria colony on the bottom end.

The other item is to increase the oxygen saturation, I have some old skimmers around that I could put on the tank. I dont think I want to set-up ozone at this point, which is the other option to increase oxygen saturation.

I still expect this will take more than 6 months to get any substantial results, With the amount of saturated nitrate in my rock and sand. Once I achieve 125 ppm, I will increase the water change frequency to help add stability.

Cheers
Bill
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2020, 02:46 AM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Thanks for the info Simons,

Would you be willing to disclose how high your nitrates were when you were having problems?

I will do some reading on the NoPox and give it consideration.

I have a comfort level with vodka, because I had been down the road once, but I am not far enough into dosing yet that it would be a substantial problem to switch (ramp one down and one up with discretion)

I had thought about vinegar briefly but am clinging to the familiar with vodka right now.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:03 PM
houlisam87 houlisam87 is offline
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Default NO3

If you want to solve your high NO3 problem, do the Maximum water change
90 % without catching any fish out of your tank...
That will do the trick, instead doing all the dosing try to get the result many months later hopefully,
Do that and maintain with carbon dosing whichever you prefer will all work fine
Just a suggestion and it works for me , which I took all the sands out afterwards.
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2020, 03:18 PM
MrNaso MrNaso is offline
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Default Nitrates etc

I have a 500 gallon + system,mixed reef with fish,feed heavy.I have used nitra-guard bio-cubes titanium for 3 years and my Nitrates stay in the area of .30
phosphates .05 or less.I also run two large skimmers.
Great product add approx 250ml a month to replace what has been used up.
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  #16  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:22 PM
LifeIsGreat LifeIsGreat is offline
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I'm not an expert by any means, I probably know less than you, but have a look at some of the discussion regarding sand bed depth. Unless you regularly vacuum out that shallow bed all the way to the glass, that sand might be saturated to the point where it can't consume any more bad stuff. That may be where your high numbers are coming from.
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Old 05-03-2020, 06:04 PM
juanlien juanlien is offline
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Following!this seems like a very interesting thread
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:39 PM
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kwirky kwirky is offline
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I tried dosing vodka and it just led to dinos and it threw everything out of whack. The bacteria consumes the nitrate in an unbalanced manner, which led to other problems.

Since you already have a fuge have you thought about bumping the lighting on it WAY up and then dosing nitrate/iron/phosphate to keep up with the macro growth? If you have high nitrates then it means your fuge is probably light and/or micro nutrient limited.

What's the light on the fuge? For a 200-ish gallon tank, if you want it to out-compete your display lights, you need lots of light over the fuge. Get yourself a 100W COB grow light ( with a cree CXB3950 3500k, used for growing/vegging the marijuanas) with a dimmer knob (important) and you should no longer be light limited. Start it at half output. You might need two of them but the nice thing is you can add another one later.

You might see more success with chaeto in the fuge. Make sure there is adequate water flow, too, in the fuge. If it's stagnant then you're not bringing nutrient rich water to the macro algae & it'll starve itself out as it's photosynthesizing. About 10cm/second of water flow through the macro algae should be adequate, with a powerhead of some sort.

Theoretically, once your light is strong enough in the fuge and if you're keeping up on iron, you'll end up nitrate limited and will need to dose it here & there to keep it above 0.0ppm.
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Last edited by kwirky; 05-31-2020 at 09:44 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2020, 05:19 PM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Thank-you all for your replies, this is great,

An update on progress, I have completed 9 weeks of carbon dosing so far,
Week 1 - 1.2/2.4ml, Week 2 - 3.6ml, Week 3 - 4.8ml, Week 4 - 6 ml, Week 5 - 7.2ml, Week 6 - 8.4ml, Week 7 - 10ml, Week 8 - 12ml, Week 9 - 14ml.
I intend to change the increase by 1ml every two weeks, ie, Week 10 - 17ml, Week 11 - 20ml, Week 12 - 24ml, etc.
This goes against my previous statement, I have went with the more aggressive dosing based on the stability of the tank parameters, and the fact that the NO3 value has not wavered till now. I will reduce it if my tank parameters start to fluctuate, or the N03 start to deplete more than incrementally.

My tank paramters have been stable with two exceptions,
1)my pH fell initially but has been stable since. I am guessing it had more to do with shutting off my UV sterilizer than the vodka dosing.
2) I feel that my NO3 climbed up initially when I turned off my UV sterilizer, The testing samples came back darker, but I was not going to try and dilute the red sea testing past 0.25ml tank water to 15.75ml RO water (I test my RO water every time before I use it to dilute)

At week 9 I am just starting to see signs of change, I have had to change my skimmer settings to get good skimmate production and the macro algae growth has tapered off. I have also got my first NO3 test that may be just on 250ppm.

I will keep you updated on progress!

Houlisam87 - For the water change comments, I have not tried a 90% water change, I am a little uneasy about changing the water parameters that much at once. Previous to Vodka dosing (the first time I tried) I had tried 50 gallons water changes at 3 times per week and saw little to no effect. But that is still far short of 90%. I think I still have a problem with NO3 saturation in my sand bed and live rock, this was pointed out in another comment. I think your method would get me there but I would have to repeat a few times, and likely suck out the sand bed at the same time. The cons that keep me from going this route is cost, a 26 of vodka is far cheaper than 800 or 1200 gallons of salt, and water parameter stability, I have one or two sensitive fish species that I do not want to risk.

I would be glad if you could comment how the livestock did in your tank when you did the 90% change, as stated before I wanted to get aggressive with water changes once I seen the NO3 starting to drop substantially.

MrNaso - I will check these out!

LifeIsGreat - I think you are probably right, I do not vacuum the sand bed, and I am confident that the NO3 is being released from something as I remove it, It would be an easy target to remove as I ramp up water changes.

Kwirky - I like this feedback, I hadn't really thought about dialing in my fuge. I only had ambitions for better lights currently. I had previously ran a 48 inch T5 but it quit last fall. I replaced it with a Costco Grow light (50W LED) but I feel it falls short of the T5's. I will check out the grow light you have called out.

My flow is very low, that would be an easy upgrade,
Same with changing to chaeto.
**I think it would be better to get the chaeto started in my fuge before pulling all the caulpera out. What do you think?

I have never had any luck with growing both, the caulpera would always choke out the chaeto.

Long term I do not wish to Carbon Dose, I think I should be able to manage the NO3 with other means, but till I get it down and stable I intend to dose vodka.

I have not read much on dosing iron, I will do some digging on that one, and get upto speed.
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