I am officially BROKE, and ? about ethics in captive fish.

my2rotties · #1 12-10-2008, 05:38 PM

So hubby comes homes with his iphone pics in hand. He had to go to Wai's and pick up some fittings for the sump room, and saw something to cheer me up.

I look at the pictures and there he is, my puffer fish. Frank said he is really big, and then showed me a Naso Tang he is drooling over as well. I grab my last $160 that I have to my name and drive to Wai's. There he is, all 8" of beautiful happy puffer. I stood there for an hour wondering if I could spend $150 for a fish. I look at the smaller guys thinking they would be a better choice but I kept going back to the big guy. I then think I should shop around, but feel livestock you like that is healthy is priceless. If greenspottedpuffer lived in Alberta I would buy him out. That guy is my idol since I have loved puffers since I was a little girl.

He is home now. His name is Gryphon as in Stewie Gryphon. All my other fish went into hiding for two hours since this guy is huge and I was wondering myself if I should have brought this guy home. At first I was worried since he seemed to be swimming like a hunter, and I worried for my little guys. I fed him a shrimp, and although I read they were messy eaters, I really had no clue.

I have krill for him and gave him some squid last night, and he laid down on the bottom and went to sleep at lights out. I worried about that since most fish at the bottom of a tank like Gryphon are in trouble. He is swimming around today looking out the ront window. He must wonder what snow and trees are, and he is totally fascinated by all of it. He is not afraid of me at all, but it will take some time to get him to him to trust me. I think I might have learned a lesson about buying larger more mature fish since they were in the wild much longer. I will enjoy the challenge of building trust and making him my buddy.

Since he was in a reef for a long time and I wonder if I made a right choice. I feel bad for him, since even a 260g pales in comparision to his real home. He does not look so big in my tank now and is happily spreading his fins and enjoying the space. He has a rock wall to forage in and plenty of room, so he is better off here then a store tank I suppose. I I have no buyers remorse now and love this guy. I am still pretty upset over Ed, and know I will never get another Foxface, unless it is an older "rescue".

Wai's also has a giant Naso tang that my hubby loves, but I think it is mean to keep him in a 260g tank. Right now he can hardly turn around in Wai's display tank so I feel I would be rescuing him in the end. However, I feel fish this big should not be allowed to be caught in the first place. If I ever have a two dimes to rub together again, I would like to buy him for hubby, but wonder if it is the right thing to do. He is $300 as well, and I know if I bought him, he would be replaced by another to repeat the circle of sadness for another big wild fish. Any reading I have done says Tangs need a huge tank and not many other fish to share space. The owner of Wai's told me he sold the other big guy to a fellow with a 180 and that is enough space for him. I look at the fish and feel he should be at a zoo exhibit or in a reef where he grew up.

I also have concerns that since this fish is older, he may eventually pine away and die in a captive tank. I know reef keeping is selfish in many ways, but I look at all creatures as thinking being with thoughts and feelings. I don't want to spend $300 for an animals misery, and also cannot afford to have a fish die both financially or mentally. I get attached to my fish and see their personalities and they all have names.

I got into this hobby bcause I inherited an old marine tank with my old Foxface Ed. Had I have known how the fish were caught and the extent of suffering I would have never done this. I bought the 260 for Ed and he never got a chance to see it. Please don't think I am hacking on this hobby because it is awesome and rewarding, yet heartbreang all the same. When things go wrong I have no one else to blame but myself. ALthough I learn from it all, it costs lives that have no choice but to be where there are.

I don't knoiw why I feel so guilty but I do... But back to my question, is getting a Tang that is probably 16" or more inches long a bad thing to buy? I know there are many captive fish that are very happy, mine are, aside of Gryphon. I know he woul much rather be on a reef where he belongs. I know he has a beautiful tank and an awesome "home".

Any opinions and insights are most appreciated, since I want you to give me the God's honest truth. Perhaps I think too much, but these are living creatures and deserve respect. However, I cannot think of a better gift to give my husband since he has busted his behind to build this beautiful tank. He also deserves respect and to reap the rewards of all the time, money and research he has done.

lastlight · #2 12-10-2008, 05:47 PM

I have a 225 in the works and my showfish was to be a nice naso.

Then I saw the giant at Oceans which is bigger than the 'Wais guy' and now I'm struggling with whether or not I should ever buy one. I'm currently leaning towards no. They just get too large in my opinion.

fdiddy · #3 12-10-2008, 05:48 PM

If your hubby has spent a lot of time building the tank and everything, i think, IMO that it is more rewarding to watch your fish grow and develop. It is known that fish do not get as large in captivity and maybe you'd feel better about putting a smaller naso in and watchng him grow rather than buying one that is clearly too large to have grown in a tank. I know that i LOVE watching my fish change colours and grow and i would say that i have more of an attachment to those fish than i do for a few of the fish that i bought full sized already... mind you my tank is not nearly as large as yours and my full sized fish consist of a maroon clown and a blue-sided wrasse..

my2rotties · #4 12-10-2008, 05:50 PM

How much are they asking for the guy at Ocean's just out of curiosity? I feel they are too big as well, but what do you do? Someone will buy them and they will be condemned to that life regardless of what we think. I just wonder if you can keep a fish like this healthy and happy. I think it should be illegal to catch fish that size (please no flames), since they are breeding age.

It makes me really sad...

Trigger Man · #5 12-10-2008, 05:51 PM

What was the length of your tank again? That is a very large tang and they do like space. I've got a 4 inch one in a 5 foot tank and it uses every square inch of the tank. You will also have to think about whether it and the puffer will get along, or will the puffer nip at the naso? lastly, like you said, if you are thinking of saving the Naso because it is to big for the tank it currently is in, that may not be wise, as another one will just be brought in to replace the sold one. If no one buys it for a while then Wai's may think twice about bringing in another.

my2rotties · #6 12-10-2008, 05:53 PM

I have to agree with you whole heartedly. My husband feels the same way, but we really feel sorry for the fish as well. Watching him hardly be able to turn around in a display tank is hard bear. If I was rich I would want to buy them all and let them go back into the wild. I am a bleeding heart, what can I say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdiddy

If your hubby has spent a lot of time building the tank and everything, i think, IMO that it is more rewarding to watch your fish grow and develop. It is known that fish do not get as large in captivity and maybe you'd feel better about putting a smaller naso in and watchng him grow rather than buying one that is clearly too large to have grown in a tank. I know that i LOVE watching my fish change colours and grow and i would say that i have more of an attachment to those fish than i do for a few of the fish that i bought full sized already... mind you my tank is not nearly as large as yours and my full sized fish consist of a maroon clown and a blue-sided wrasse..

my2rotties · #7 12-10-2008, 06:02 PM

It is seven feet wide and 30" deep. I thought the same thing about the fish being replaced by another. I have big issues with pet store puppies for this exact same reason. I rescued many a dogs but never from a petstore. I have my own personal ethics and morals about animals, but I already crossed those lines when I said I would take the stocked 44g that came with this house. I hate hypocrites and here I am being exactly that.

I watch Gryphon looking out the window beyond his tank, and know it is not right. I almost want to bring him back, but that will not change his fate. He is destined to be captive, so I will give him all the love and care I can bestow upon him. This puffer is very mellow and has no interest in the other fish, mind you the little guys are not stupid and get in his way. He worried me at first since he looked like he was in hunting mode when I put him in the tank. I think he just saw little fish darting around and thought they were shrimp and such. He has no interest in them now. I do feel he needs a companion and will be researching what he would like to hang out with. He was with a purple tang and a niger grouper at Wai's. I have a purple tang but he is a little small to hang out with him. Gryphon is a good 8" long and it looks like he has more then enough room. The tang is double that in size.

I stay the heck away from petstore that sell livestock, but aquarium stores get you since you need to buy equipment constantly and have no choice but to walk by all the fish.

What have I done..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger Man

What was the length of your tank again? That is a very large tang and they do like space. I've got a 4 inch one in a 5 foot tank and it uses every square inch of the tank. You will also have to think about whether it and the puffer will get along, or will the puffer nip at the naso? lastly, like you said, if you are thinking of saving the Naso because it is to big for the tank it currently is in, that may not be wise, as another one will just be brought in to replace the sold one. If no one buys it for a while then Wai's may think twice about bringing in another.

ShrimSkin · #8 12-10-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I have to agree with you whole heartedly. My husband feels the same way, but we really feel sorry for the fish as well. Watching him hardly be able to turn around in a display tank is hard bear. If I was rich I would want to buy them all and let them go back into the wild. I am a bleeding heart, what can I say.

Well, I think you have a very good point. But someone will buy that Naso, if not you someone will. At least you know that it will be taken care of correctly and your tank is more suitable for it then probably 90% of the tanks out there.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #9 12-10-2008, 06:06 PM

What kind of puffer? Sounds like a great addition to your tank...they always are

Puffers do well in captivity. They do get large but are not the most active swimmers even in the ocean and two seem to love human interaction although most of it is just a food dance

Im not saying to cram a porc in a 30G but please don't feel bad about your puff in a 260G

This hobby is nothing if not selfish and you have to get over that to a point. Feeling guilty is good though IMO and if more people did, you would see less fish in unsubstantial aquariums. Most of the people on here or most online forums do make the right choices though and research. I am talking more about the millions of people who do not join forums or care to make sure a certain fish will be ok in their tank.

It is a dilemma with that huge tang. He has to go somewhere and there just are not too many huge tanks out there. He should never have been collected in the first place. IMO there are many, many species collected that never should be. Why are Starry Puffers collected? They get 4'...FOUR FEET!

I think fish should be collected based on adult sizes they will reach and not the 3" they are at the time. So many people buy fish thinking well I have a few years before it outgrows my tank...I have. Its wrong though because then what? I can tell you first hand, its not easy to find a home for a 16" fish. I have tried in the past and eventually had to take him back to a store and feel guilty ever since. I have no idea what happened to that guy.

Good luck and it sounds like you will make the right choice.

lastlight · #10 12-10-2008, 06:06 PM

There's no price on that Naso at Oceans and I've never asked. It has however been there for months so sometimes someone else *doesn't* come along and buy it.