when does a water change become irrelevant

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I would then argue that controlling ORP with external influences is simply masking an underlying issue (to a degree). Again, it may extend the window, but not make it irrelevant.

Are you masking or remedying. If after a wc the orp goes down that's a imbalance.
My hottub for example users ozone to oxidize organics which means I don't have the chemical additives to remedy and also prolongs the time between cleaning

Truth told we would need a chemist to do a proper analysis of a tank before and after a wc to really find out the true story.

[FishyFishy!]

Does anyone recall the DSR (Dutch synthetic reefing) method? There is a lot of controversy surrounding it, but it does make a lot of sense when you look at it. Simply replacing all elements that diminish over time, and zero water changes. Glenns 300 gallon tank on reef central is outstanding, and he hasn't done a water change for maintenance in years (not to mention he dosn't have a functioning skimmer, and very little equipment other than dosers). A very neat theory, but theres no way that I could keep up with all the testing all the time. I think regular water changes are going to be the key for me.

When I look back at it, all of my successful tanks were those that had regular water changes. All the ones that I neglected to do water changes on, had zero abilities to grow and keep even the simplest of corals.

[sphelps]

The Zeovit method requires water changes, I believe the guide states 10% per week to maintain the element balance. As far as bailing goes the idea is to increase stability between water changes, pretty sure it's been stated many times it doesn't replace or reduce the need for them. The way I see it is you're adding elements to replenish those being used thus promoting stability but at the same time there's pretty much zero chance it's being all replaced at same ratio it's being used. Water changes will maintain the balance by removing and replacing, cutting back on them would reduce overall stability thus defeating the purpose of the bailing in the first place. So as far I'm concerned the addition methods you've employed are additions to reduce nutrients and promote stability but have no relation to making water changes irrelevant.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by sphelps

So as far I'm concerned the addition methods you've employed are additions to reduce nutrients and promote stability but have no relation to making water changes irrelevant.

I would agree that this pretty much covers it.

[Simons]

My thoughts are no matter how good, efficient or over sized your skimmer is, it will never be 100% affective in removing all organics.

Most people that I know who run tanks and do small or no water changes also usually have a very low bio load, AND they feed sparingly.

If you think from a closed ecosystem perspective, when living organisms are present they introduce waste. Yes carbon, GFO etc help in that removal but they are never perfect.

I think toxins, nitrates etc build up over time in all tanks, just some build up much slower than others (bio load, feeding habits play a huge role in that department) but eventually levels will build up.

The advantage to very slow build up is anything alive has more ability to adapt over the longer period. So I don't see it as 'never needing' but perhaps needing less frequently but still needing (to do water changes).