Well it happened again.....and yet again*updated*

[marcingo]

Herein lies the problem. We are all calling these zoos. At least the ones I got 3 years ago not sure if they are the same trouble makers were palys from what I know a paly to be. Long stems, bigger heads (maybe just smaller than a dime).

So I would say yes they were probably palys and I incorrectly said zoos.

I dont think they had heavy metals in the system since they came out of an established tank with inverts. I also had the exact same symptoms with all the bristle worms coming out of the rock and dying on the sand bed along with everything else. There was also a bad smell in the water which smelled exactly like the palys before and after I put htem in the tank. I also made sure to put just the rock and corals into my tank and not the water it was transported in.

I guess its truly hard to ever tell what did it but being so close in symptoms its a crazy coincidence that within 7 hrs of the palys being in my tank everything dying.

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Well that's the thing, you don,t know for sure. You may have introduced a bacteria, or a parasite that killed your fish and that polluted the water. There could have been some heavy metal in the water in wich the zoa was in. If it was a zoanthid, and not a palythoas, it is very unlikely it was palytoxine as they were never found to carry it.

Especialy clown fish are very resistant to toxin. One of my friend had one of her anemone stuck in a powerhead and released toxins in the tank. Everything died overnight except her clownfish and invertebrates. The anemone survived.

[daniella3d]

It's hard to tell, it could be the palythoas, but this could also be caused by bad bacterias in the water. Anything in the vibrios family. they are very dangerous and cause all sort of disease in coral and humans. Brown jelly is caused by this bacteria and protozoa taking over.

If it was smelling bad, I would say a bacteria because palythoas are gewy and slimy but they don't smell much, but bacterias are extremely smelly.
Just take a breath at the skimmate and you will see

There are definitly a lot more dangerous stuff in the aquarium than just palythoas slime.

It's just hard to visualize everything dying in a tank only due to some palythoas. I have so many in my tank and I frag them and they slime like crazy and never caused any harm to anything. I have a few different types of wild button polyp palythoas that fit the description of the dangerous specie, yet nothing has hapened. I have one that is starting to become quite pretty with a peach center and becoming really huge. It was just brown at the beginning.

Originally Posted by marcingo

Herein lies the problem. We are all calling these zoos. At least the ones I got 3 years ago not sure if they are the same trouble makers were palys from what I know a paly to be. Long stems, bigger heads (maybe just smaller than a dime).

So I would say yes they were probably palys and I incorrectly said zoos.

I dont think they had heavy metals in the system since they came out of an established tank with inverts. I also had the exact same symptoms with all the bristle worms coming out of the rock and dying on the sand bed along with everything else. There was also a bad smell in the water which smelled exactly like the palys before and after I put htem in the tank. I also made sure to put just the rock and corals into my tank and not the water it was transported in.

I guess its truly hard to ever tell what did it but being so close in symptoms its a crazy coincidence that within 7 hrs of the palys being in my tank everything dying.

[Murminator]

Last night the sump got a little low and gurgled a bit topped it up after that throat felt a little scratchy dog started pacing opened all the windows to air out the place.....wicked stuff and I have to say we don't live in a tiny apartment we have a 2100 sqft house and the tank is in the basement.

Had enough took the day off today and ripped everything down found the dead fish 1st I thought it was a sponge on the bottom of a rock. I had around 100# of LR and about a 4" sand bed. The sand.... was..... nasty it reeked of H2S and was jet black about an inch down. Blocked off the basement had high powered fans in the basement windows and wore a full face mask. Went outside once to cool down after I removed the sand and walking around the back yard all you could smell was rotten eggs. House smells nice a clean now and the wife is happen once again.

Sand is on the way to the landfill rock is outside in tubs getting a fresh water bath. Tank was hauled outside washed, vinegared scraped down with a razor blade back painted black. Stand cleaned up and tank back in the house on the stand rest of the equip soaking in vinegar in the garage. Canopy sitting on sawhorses waiting a rebuild Might be a good time to redo the sump and order a new pump.

[daniella3d]

This sound more like old tank syndrom hydrogen sulfide rather than palytoxine. Hydrogen sulfide does have a rotten egg smell. This gas was probably what was making you sick.

Originally Posted by Murminator

The sand.... was..... nasty it reeked of H2S and was jet black about an inch down. Blocked off the basement had high powered fans in the basement windows and wore a full face mask. Went outside once to cool down after I removed the sand and walking around the back yard all you could smell was rotten eggs.

[Myka]

Palys will have sand stuck to them and have a gritty texture on their "necks", Zoas won't and have a smooth texture. It has nothing to do with size of polyp.

[2pts]

Only problem that I have ( took my H2S Alive coarse a few years ago ) is I remember that the rotten egg smell "weant away" quickly. Really it is your sense of smell being destroyed, but I think that was at extremely high doses which makes sense as a small fish wouldn't create a high dose of H2S as compared to an oil rig blowout.

[daniella3d]

It's not really the dead fish that created it, it's more the 4" deep sand bed that was black with anaerobic pockets for many years collecting organic matter.

Originally Posted by 2pts

Only problem that I have ( took my H2S Alive coarse a few years ago ) is I remember that the rotten egg smell "weant away" quickly. Really it is your sense of smell being destroyed, but I think that was at extremely high doses which makes sense as a small fish wouldn't create a high dose of H2S as compared to an oil rig blowout.

[Cranky When Wet]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

"Palytoxin acts by changing the electrical properties of the Na-K pump and causes depolarization in heart, skeletal and smooth muscle cells and nerves resulting in paralysis and eventually death (Seyama, 1991). Gliebs et al. (1995) found this toxic substance in many of the Caribbean species of Zoanthus and Palythoa but the levels were highly variable and did not appear to correlate with their reproductive cycle or with the amount of zooxanthellae." The Reef Aquarium Vol 2

HUGE THANKS to whatcaneyedo for finding the details!!!! I for one, would not be arguing with Sprung or Fenner.

I love zoa's and paly's as much as many people and keep many colonies of them.

All I have been saying is that the potential for real danger is there. You may feel nothing, or you may feel itchy, or you can get rather dead....

Having lived through terrifying bouts of heart palpitations; shortness of breath; and chills: I simply will not risk grabbing "ungloved" a rock full of slimey paly's, or Zoa's, again. I've no problem getting my hands wet feeding my Acans, Blastos, and Scolymia...but, I've learned where and when to draw the line. Of course, one never knows what other microbe may not like me LOL.

This post is not about scaring people out of keeping Zoa's. It is all about sharing knowledge in the hope people become informed.

Bunny
aka that Cranky Blonde

[Cranky When Wet]

Originally Posted by Murminator

Thanks to cranky when wet for the link lots of info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
Here is what happend to another guy

You're very welcome Murray >:-) WetWebMedia.com is practically my bible when it comes to all things watery..... It's managed by people who are well educated and some who are even notorious (LOL) in Marine Biology.

After all was discovered with your tank, I think your initial symptoms pointed to palytoxin. Finding black/water/sand is a secondary set of values that may lead to another analysis... unfortunately, my background is not such that I can even surmise what happened.

I am very glad things are working out for you regardless >:-) You may find it amusing but; I'm slowly removing my relatively shallow sand beds and relying almost entirely on liverock as biological filter now. Been enjoying how much cleaner the tanks are and how easy it is to manage because I can discount copious factors the old sand beds gave birth to LOL!

Cheers from Cowtown!

Bunny
that Cranky blonde >:-)