fish collection

[karazy]

lately I've kinda been feeling bad that fish that we buy come out of the ocean.

I know that we are getting better, but still. i always think about how much room the fish had to swim in before.

i know its part of the hobby, and im just kinda venting, but im just wondering how others feel about this, and if anyone has any info that would maybe make me feel a bit better?

[Trigger Man]

Just think by keeping fish in you tank you a saving them from the posibillity of being attacked and killed by pretators. Atleast in the tank they will always get a good meal! In the end though I enjoy looking at any tank and everything in there gets the best care I can give them, so that makes me feel good about my collection.

[justinl]

Originally Posted by Trigger Man

Just think by keeping fish in you tank you a saving them from the posibillity of being attacked and killed by pretators. Atleast in the tank they will always get a good meal!

true, but let us focus on the ocean inhabitants as a whole. say you "save" (arguably) an anthias. what about the predator that would have eaten this anthias when it got old an tired? you just deprived another fish of a meal which really negates your argument. and then think about how many fish had to die before yours reached your tank and survived (depending on mortality during collection, shipping, handling, and storage in the store). Ive actually wondered... just how many live animals die during transit alone due to incompetence by delivery companies? I ask you to think about it because, in all honesty, i don't want to. I admit this hobby is my guilty vice (or at least one of them) and I have no reason or excuse to justify it. they're just pretty and i like watching them and knowing i am doing my best to care for them.

edit: when buying, I do try to buy livestock from other reefers rather than from a store where i know it just came out of the ocean... for the environment's sake, as well as the peace of mind that livestock from an established system is less likely to die or bring in weird parasites into my tank.

[mark]

Let's face it, by keeping an aquarium we aren't doing any service to the fish in the ocean. Might mitigate it by saying we're developing an appreciate of the wild in our children (and they can just figure their father is a hypocrite).

[awa1979]

Try to buy species that are available captive bred (clowns, some cardinals etc.) and refuse to buy any wild caught species that are available captive bred, and buy from others in the hobby.

I have a couple wild caught, but I try to stick with captive bred.

[Trigger Man]

Originally Posted by justinl

true, but let us focus on the ocean inhabitants as a whole. say you "save" (arguably) an anthias. what about the predator that would have eaten this anthias when it got old an tired? you just deprived another fish of a meal which really negates your argument. and then think about how many fish had to die before yours reached your tank and survived (depending on mortality during collection, shipping, handling, and storage in the store). Ive actually wondered... just how many live animals die during transit alone due to incompetence by delivery companies? I ask you to think about it because, in all honesty, i don't want to. I admit this hobby is my guilty vice (or at least one of them) and I have no reason or excuse to justify it. they're just pretty and i like watching them and knowing i am doing my best to care for them.

edit: when buying, I do try to buy livestock from other reefers rather than from a store where i know it just came out of the ocean... for the environment's sake, as well as the peace of mind that livestock from an established system is less likely to die or bring in weird parasites into my tank.

Good points brought up. I did not think about the predator who lost it's meal because it was scooped up by the aquarium trade.
I as well try to buy my corals and fish from fellow reefers where possible, mainly due to my belief that tank bred fish, established fish as well as corals fragged from others tend to have adapted to the aquarium life better and are hardier.
This is always going to be a tough question for all of us in the hobby to answer.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I think most people here know how I feel about this

Its something that I think most people like to keep out of mind. This is a very, very selfish hobby and extremely damaging to the oceans that are destroyed by collectors. But as I have said so many times, I know this, it disturbs me, saddens me but apparently I am still selfish enough to continue to do it. I try not to be hypocritical about it but I catch myself all the time

The thing is, if you see as I have, the carnage left behind by many collectors overseas, you will have a whole new outlook on where your fish have come from and what they have been through. Apparently 2/3 of the hobbies fish come from the Philippines and an estimated 3/4 of those are cyanide caught

I think obviously something needs to be done on the collection side of things. Regulations need to be enforced and made tougher. Wholesalers need to care more. Retailers need to care more. And we all need to care more. Don't buy species that have low survival rates...we all know what species these are but I see them in LFS all the time and they sell each time.

I think another big problem is when people start in this hobby, they often kill many fish before figuring things out. I know I did. This needs to stop somehow. LFS need to be able to say no to people but of course LFS owners are not going to allow their employees to do this...

And it goes on and on. Its a business and stores need to make money but I think if you are going to get into this business, part of the responsibility you have is to care...or perhaps you should open a Clothing shop where you can just think money alone with no regard to where your product is going.

[karazy]

you guys have helped me and i feel much better

i will definitely try my hardest to get at least my clown pair tank raised.

since i first researching saltwater i've wanted to breed saltwater fish,so who knows, maybe you Calgarians will have a local breeder in a few years. we'll see

[justinl]

well said justin. the entire hobby needs major reconstruction, starting with collection methods and mortality reduction before the livestock even hits the tank. we have to stop considering live animal trades the same as any other merchandise... the fact that these are living breathing animals needs to be taken into consideration. we continue doing the same old crap, our hobby will be in serious danger of being shut down by legislation. in fact, if we continue what we're doing, im sad to say that i think import *should* be shut down by legislation.

[karazy]

i also agree that if we go one like we are, we need to be shut down,
or atleast cut fish catching in half.

like if the gov't gave us about a year to prepare for breeding fish, i think it could work.

shops would lose alot of money, but we kinda brang it upon ourselves.