Ever feel really sad after visiting fish store?

[Myka]

Posts edited to remove names.

Please don't use names. We can't afford libel lawyers here.

[Moogled]

Originally Posted by Dash

Thanks for being a sounding board. Like I said, I'm not squeamish/sappy but I felt crappy seeing those poor sad fish eyes. Those animals were so disposable.

For sure. I think many of us in the hobby are reactive to sub-par husbandry and poor conditions. These animals have been through a lot before they even reach our tanks.

I don't think it has anything to do with being sappy. I think we're just being compassionate hobbyists

I get bummed out when a hermit or snail dies. They're dime a dozen but in my eyes that doesn't mean they're disposable. My lil hermits are some of the cutest animals in my tank when they scale rocks or climb my gorgonians.

[Potatohead]

Originally Posted by Moogled

For sure. I think many of us in the hobby are reactive to sub-par husbandry and poor conditions. These animals have been through a lot before they even reach our tanks.

I don't think it has anything to do with being sappy. I think we're just being compassionate hobbyists

I get bummed out when a hermit or snail dies. They're dime a dozen but in my eyes that doesn't mean they're disposable. My lil hermits are some of the cutest animals in my tank when they scale rocks or climb my gorgonians.

A life is a life man, I don't think any of it should be wasted for no good reason.

[Coasting]

Hmm thats never been a rule here before. Infact people comment about negative and positive stuff they see in stores all the time on here. [***] isnt a vendor either and nobody posted a link.

Remember guys you can leave google reviews as well.
Other folks in the hobby deserve to know and be aware of whats happening so hopefully they dont fall for bad advice or intentionally sold sick fish. At least allow them to put their guard up if they still decide to go there.
Doubtful the SPCA would do anything about fish....

[TimT]

As someone who's been in the industry for a long time there are a few things that need to be said in this thread.

There are good shipments and bad shipments and the fish/corals coming out of them should not be reflective on a store. If a fish shipment gets cold in transit the fish will typically breakdown with ick. This is normal.

There are stores that have separate quarantine systems for newly arrived fish. Their fish are more money. It all boils down to speak with your money but don't expect to get a Mercedes for a Hyundai price. No slight on Hyundai. Ever go to the big American fish stores with the marine biologists on staff, how nice and clean etc. Look at their prices and consider they're in USD which is almost 38% exchange and their costs of supply are cheaper.

18 years ago I was importing Certified Cyanide Free fish. The stores wouldn't buy them because their customers wouldn't pay the higher prices. Even though there was lots of talk about people being willing to pay for Certified Cyanide Free fish.

There's a saying "When you point a finger there are four more fingers pointing back at you". How many people have UV sterilizers on their systems? How many people have Chillers on their systems? How many people have back up generators for their systems? How many people have safety redundancy on their tanks heaters. It saddens me when I hear these stories of people losing their tanks due to easily preventable causes with a little money spent.

This site is not for bashing stores as all stores have their own issues... it's for helping people have the most fun in the hobby.

[dino]

Well said Tim is your personal tank set up yet? It's also a really hard industry to make a go at.

[Animal-Chin]

This is why its our job to take responsibility for our purchases. I've had issues with livestock from every local store. Velvet, acro flatworms, you name it I've purchased it and brought it home. There are issues with every local store in the area. I've seen entire shipments of really nice sps turn totally brown in one store due to poor lighting and I've seen another store trying to sell totally dead sps. I've seen large tanks with 50 baby hippo tangs die off in days because of the disease they brought in. I've seen $600 6 inch cross hatch triggerfish in a 20 gallon tank lying on the bottom. I've seen zoa colonies with more aptasia than zoa's on them.

There is a lot of bad merch in our local stores, if you find one crosses the line say something or stop shopping there. Most importantly be careful when your buying. If you REALLY REALLY want a Naso Tang and the store only has one skinny rough looking one, don't buy it, wait for a healthy shipment to come in. I feel bad for first time shoppers, its easy to make mistakes. My first coral was covered in green briopsis algae that at the time I thought was a bonus cause you get a coral with a plant for the same price...lol

Side note, the very first reef tank I bought was a biocube from a local store and while I was buying it they asked if I had researched before I came in. I said I saw some stuff online and they asked if I ever went to Can Reef. I said now and they said good because you can't believe anything you read on can reef, the people here are horrible...lol That LFS is now out of business but man did they hate Can Reef.

[Dearth]

This is why I deal with reputable LFS only if you shop local for convenience at a place where you know fish, coral and inverts are in bad shape then deal with it confront the manager sales staff. Sometimes it's as simple as education sometimes the staff don't care and are just taking your money.

Yes I've sympathy bought before just because I felt sorry for the fish but sick and starving fish are a good way to infect/kill your tank.

If you shop for convenience why not save up and go to a reputable LFS where you know the livestock is well cared for. Using excuses like the inconvenience of shipping or the inconvenience driving up to 4 hrs away for livestock doesn't wash with me. I live in the north it is no more difficult for me to order than someone who lives in a major centre with a store 20 minutes away. It's inevitable if you stay in the hobby long enough you will get a bad order it happens.

Basically don't sympathy buy or feel like your saving xx livestock from so and so store because you end up paying the price. As I said confront the staff/manager sometimes it's as simple as education other times all they want is your money.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by TimT

As someone who's been in the industry for a long time there are a few things that need to be said in this thread.

There are good shipments and bad shipments and the fish/corals coming out of them should not be reflective on a store. If a fish shipment gets cold in transit the fish will typically breakdown with ick. This is normal.

There are stores that have separate quarantine systems for newly arrived fish. Their fish are more money. It all boils down to speak with your money but don't expect to get a Mercedes for a Hyundai price. No slight on Hyundai. Ever go to the big American fish stores with the marine biologists on staff, how nice and clean etc. Look at their prices and consider they're in USD which is almost 38% exchange and their costs of supply are cheaper.

18 years ago I was importing Certified Cyanide Free fish. The stores wouldn't buy them because their customers wouldn't pay the higher prices. Even though there was lots of talk about people being willing to pay for Certified Cyanide Free fish.

There's a saying "When you point a finger there are four more fingers pointing back at you". How many people have UV sterilizers on their systems? How many people have Chillers on their systems? How many people have back up generators for their systems? How many people have safety redundancy on their tanks heaters. It saddens me when I hear these stories of people losing their tanks due to easily preventable causes with a little money spent.

This site is not for bashing stores as all stores have their own issues... it's for helping people have the most fun in the hobby.

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

[Animal-Chin]

Don't forget the fact that the fish are starved for days before shipping so they don't poop in the bag. It is amazing that fish survive the trip as well as they do.

First question I always ask the store, how long has this fish been here, second question, is it eating and a lot of times I ask to see it eat. The stores are always more than happy to drop some mysis in the tank. I've walked away from fish that would just swim by the food.

But all that being said, if you own a fish store and you're putting 6 inch triggers in a 20 gallon tank you may want to rethink that...or not...